Ground extentions/Renovations

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the Kop is the main issue with the Lane, the vast majority of Championship clubs provide better facilities for away fans than we do for fans on the Kop, which is pretty poor. So for me that should be addressed as soon as reasonably possible, but the current plans don't do that in my opinion..

You seem to ignore economics with is key to any stadium expansion .
Let’s say the Kop has 6 issues that fans don’t like and want improving.
A business plan might be, improve 3 of the 6 issues costs 40 million with happier fans and a higher capacity.
Improve 5 of the 6 issues costs 50 million with even happier fans and a higher capacity.
Improve 6 of the 6 issues costs 200 million, the potential loss of future fans and a lower capacity.

Not sure you realise this but in a business meeting you’d need to be able to convince the CEO why option 3 is better than option 2.
Appreciate you’re talking as a fan using idealism but in the real world idealism is irrelevant, it’s all about practicality and economics.

It would just be nice for the club to look at this long term rather than the "make do" attitude which seems to be always present. We should always aim to be the best we can be, so if it means spending more money but having a stand/stadium development which will provide great facilities for the next 50 years, that's got to be the way to do it. The short term developments are the reason it's currently difficult to expand the stadium without investing more than we should have.

The club shouldn’t just be making plans for the long term, they should be considering short, medium and long term
You final comment is contradictory, it’s the current short term developement on the Kop that’s making it easier and more cost effective to expand, if we have done something more substantial with the Kop it would now be more hassle to change it. Ultimately long term plans are all dependant on the land around it.

I’ve not heard one suggestion regards how the current designs can be improved. Some people are even suggesting we join the Kop stand onto the South stand and John Street, but then that end would look like a boring bowl. If anyone could come up with a better design than the current one they should contact the club and maybe send a cv into the architects because they would have demonstrate they have the flair for problem solving/ design to be a top level architect.
 
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First thing they need to do is change the fragrance they use in the Gents toilet.

'Fragrance'?

I'd suggest that you do not partake of your football entertainment from that grand old viewpoint to the rear of the goal, fondly known as the 'Kop'?
Our toilet facilities, which were roofed as recently as 10 years ago, use a delicate limited edition fragrance. Stale piss and fags with quite a hint of Eau de fart
 
'Fragrance'?

I'd suggest that you do not partake of your football entertainment from that grand old viewpoint to the rear of the goal, fondly known as the 'Kop'?
Our toilet facilities, which were roofed as recently as 10 years ago, use a delicate limited edition fragrance. Stale piss and fags with quite a hint of Eau de fart

Don't forget the Maria Warner range.
 
Costly but could you lower the pitch, I reckon you could get a couple of thousand extra seats with the gap between the south and pitch and John Street and the pitch
 
You seem to ignore economics with is key to any stadium expansion .
Let’s say the Kop has 6 issues that fans don’t like and want improving.
A business plan might be, improve 3 of the 6 issues costs 40 million with happier fans and a higher capacity.
Improve 5 of the 6 issues costs 50 million with even happier fans and a higher capacity.
Improve 6 of the 6 issues costs 200 million, the potential loss of future fans and a lower capacity.

Not sure you realise this but in a business meeting you’d need to be able to convince the CEO why option 3 is better than option 2.
Appreciate you’re talking as a fan using idealism but in the real world idealism is irrelevant, it’s all about practicality and economics.



The club shouldn’t just be making plans for the long term, they should be considering short, medium and long term
You final comment is contradictory, it’s the current short term developement on the Kop that’s making it easier and more cost effective to expand, if we have done something more substantial with the Kop it would now be more hassle to change it. Ultimately long term plans are all dependant on the land around it.

I’ve not heard one suggestion regards how the current designs can be improved. Some people are even suggesting we join the Kop stand onto the South stand and John Street, but then that end would look like a boring bowl. If anyone could come up with a better design than the current one they should contact the club and maybe send a cv into the architects because they would have demonstrate they have the flair for problem solving/ design to be a top level architect.

The point I’m making regarding long term is that since we stopped having cricket at the Lane, the developments have mainly be around short/medium term planning with no thought to what the club could potentially develop into. It’s easy with hindsight as I doubt many people would have predicted the cash injection that football has received since Sky got involved.

Had we built the south stand further back and towards the Kop then John street and the Lane end could have been more easily developed. Had the Kop spoil heep been removed in the 90s a better development would be far cheaper now etc. etc.

The current plans are to me another cheap solution which we shouldn’t rush into and should be a last resort once all other options have been ruled out as not viable. When you talk about the best solution based on economics, what if that is to move to a new stadium at a new location?
 
Don't know if this has been thought of but just been thinking: could the offices between Bramall Lane & John Street be replaced with a double tier corner stand??

Is it feasible ?
Would it be financially beneficial??
 
Don't know if this has been thought of but just been thinking: could the offices between Bramall Lane & John Street be replaced with a double tier corner stand??

Is it feasible ?
Would it be financially beneficial??

Probaly feasible but very expensive for little gain and a loss of revenue (renting out office space brings in income 52 weeks per year).
Unless you think a 41-42K capacity stadium isn’t sufficient and we need something bigger.
Also,with the different rakes involved there’s a risk it would look odd like the Pukka Pie Corner.
 
I suppose the big question is, what is the projected cost of updating the kop
Roof, more seats, catering and bar facilities as per the designs submitted
15 million ?
 
Has anyone been down to the Lane lately then? What's going off?
 
Is everyone on drugs?! Build The Lane from scratch!! Go and support a plastic club if thats what you want. I personally love the history and special feel of Bramall Lane. All thats needed is redevelop the kop. UTB⚔

If this was done properly, knocking down and starting again, we'd lose hundreds if not a couple of thousand seats as the rake would need to be improved. Ideally, we would start again on the kop, give it the same rake as the south stand and fill in the corner between them. Then add a second tier to the south stand. We could have boxes all the way around from the back of the kop and between the lower and upper tiers of the south. Whilst we're at it, demolish that shitty little corner too.

Only issue with this is losing the 10,000 seats on the kop for a season.
 
This is a thread about stadium renovations/extensions...I'm talking about the priority for that which will put us in a better position to finance the playing side.

It came out in our most recent accounts that we're lagging someway behind a lot of other Championship teams in terms of commercial revenue. Far better the club concentrate on that than whacking 10,000 extra seats on the Kop and charging £40 a ticket.

I've only come in half way through this conversation, so apologies if I've misunderstood what you're saying here, but just reading what you've written above, it doesn't make much sense at all to me! In fact, it appears to be totally contradictory.

How can having an extra 10,000 seats for sale at ..(whatever price) not be a positive thing in terms of "commercial revenue"? It would be a tremendous boost to commercial revenue wouldn't it? (Unless you are one of those that believe we couldn't sell an extra 10,000 seats). If you're saying that, in addition to increasing the ground capacity, there's a lot of other work that needs to be done to "commercialise" the club - i.e. to bring in revenue from lots of other sources, not just gate money, I'd totally agree with you. But you don't appear to be saying that. You're putting your argument forward here as these two things being mutually exclusive. Why? Why can't we look to do both?
 
I think we should build a new out of town stadium to accommodate us whilst BDTBL is being spun round 90°, the kop is rebuilt and extended, the South stand is knocked down and rebuilt further into the car park to accommodate the newly orientated pitch, a second tier should be built on to the JSS, and the Bramall Lane end should be rebuilt over the road.
Then, and this is the far fetched bit, we sell our temporary out of town home to the pigs for a massive profit which would pay for the BL renovations.

I'm available to project manage all this for a modest fee 🍌
 

We're all well aware that nothing is going to happen immediately, it's just an interesting thing to talk about.

As we all know, the Kop is the main issue with the Lane, the vast majority of Championship clubs provide better facilities for away fans than we do for fans on the Kop, which is pretty poor. So for me that should be addressed as soon as reasonably possible, but the current plans don't do that in my opinion.

It would just be nice for the club to look at this long term rather than the "make do" attitude which seems to be always present. We should always aim to be the best we can be, so if it means spending more money but having a stand/stadium development which will provide great facilities for the next 50 years, that's got to be the way to do it. The short term developments are the reason it's currently difficult to expand the stadium without investing more than we should have.

I agree with you. The club doesn't have a "long term" plan. This much is clear from McCabe's responses from the High Court hearing in the last couple of weeks. The club has been run for many years now on the premise that survival is about generating more money from player sales than what we spend on player purchases. Topped up by money from the owners to stay afloat. That's the "business model" that we've operated to.

It's probably about 5 years ago now that I created a post on this - saying that the club should be run to a long term plan - and that plan should be shared openly with the fans. After all, this is the way that professional businesses operate. But we aren't a professionally run business - and that's the problem. And while ever we run the club in this "hand to mouth" way, we'll always have setbacks that prevent us from really establishing ourselves as one of the country's top football clubs and having a secure future.

In terms of priorities, the first priority for any business is survival. Plain and simple. How a club, (or a business) chooses to survive may vary, but whatever they do, they must ensure the club is able to continue in business.

So, for Sheffield United right now, the first priority is to make the essential updates to the ground that will allow us to take part in the Premiership next season. Because if we don't do that, then we can't play in the Premiership - it's really that simple. This is number 1.

Number 2 is - invest in the playing staff, so that the club has a realistic chance of remaining in the Premiership for more than one season.

Number 3 is - Increase commercial revenue streams for the club, through marketing, merchandising, developing new income streams, increasing match day revenues, (which includes increasing ground capacity), etc.

I don't think any of this is particularly difficult to understand. However, that doesn't guarantee we will be able to do it well. With number 1, we have no choice. That's not an issue. With number 2 it gets a bit more tricky. I don't know what level of ambition there will be to sign players who are capable of competing in the best football league in the world?

My fear is that they'll look at Wilder and think, "he's done well without much money" and expect that he can continue to do well, without much money. Don't get me wrong, I am sure, whatever happens with the ownership issue, we'll see the club breaking our transfer record fee on new signings this summer. But will we really equip him with sufficient funds to really compete at this level? I honestly don't know. I don't know if our owners have got any idea what kind of investment is needed on players at this level? And even if they do, will they release those kind of funds - or will they expect Wilder to do it on a shoestring, albeit a longer shoestring than he had before? Put it this way - if they short-change him in this department then we'll be heading back to the Championship at the end of the season - and that would be a huge blow to the club's "long term" ambitions.

The trickiest one of all though, I think, is number 3. Because I don't think that we have the skills and expertise within the club to truly market it as a global brand and develop all these necessary additional income streams. I'm sure we're capable of adding more seats - but keeping them filled is another matter - and it's dependent on doing 2 and 3 really well.
 
How can you have a long term plan, it all depends on IF you can get to the PL, which is then a game changer
Can the academy keep producing saleable players, no guarantees
Clubs like Wednesday, Derby and Leeds spent millions with massive losses and can’t get promoted
At last we fell lucky and Wilder has done an unbelievable job over the last 3 years turning round a club in turmoil for 6 years
This is now the big opportunity, can we stay up and then grow the club, expand the ground and facilitates
 
Just read the thread start to finish.

Interesting that the World Cup 2030 grounds needs to have space around the pitch. Other than to put sponsors flags on can't think of a good reason for pushing fans further away from the pitch.

I don't understand the use of the negative term 'plastics'. If their clubs choose to spend less money/create less debt to improve their grounds then good on them. Spending more money on designers to create 4 different stands would be more 'false'.

Anyone able to take a picture next time you are around BDTBL?
 
I agree with you. The club doesn't have a "long term" plan. This much is clear from McCabe's responses from the High Court hearing in the last couple of weeks. The club has been run for many years now on the premise that survival is about generating more money from player sales than what we spend on player purchases. Topped up by money from the owners to stay afloat. That's the "business model" that we've operated to.

It's probably about 5 years ago now that I created a post on this - saying that the club should be run to a long term plan - and that plan should be shared openly with the fans. After all, this is the way that professional businesses operate. But we aren't a professionally run business - and that's the problem. And while ever we run the club in this "hand to mouth" way, we'll always have setbacks that prevent us from really establishing ourselves as one of the country's top football clubs and having a secure future.

In terms of priorities, the first priority for any business is survival. Plain and simple. How a club, (or a business) chooses to survive may vary, but whatever they do, they must ensure the club is able to continue in business.

So, for Sheffield United right now, the first priority is to make the essential updates to the ground that will allow us to take part in the Premiership next season. Because if we don't do that, then we can't play in the Premiership - it's really that simple. This is number 1.

Number 2 is - invest in the playing staff, so that the club has a realistic chance of remaining in the Premiership for more than one season.

Number 3 is - Increase commercial revenue streams for the club, through marketing, merchandising, developing new income streams, increasing match day revenues, (which includes increasing ground capacity), etc.

I don't think any of this is particularly difficult to understand. However, that doesn't guarantee we will be able to do it well. With number 1, we have no choice. That's not an issue. With number 2 it gets a bit more tricky. I don't know what level of ambition there will be to sign players who are capable of competing in the best football league in the world?

My fear is that they'll look at Wilder and think, "he's done well without much money" and expect that he can continue to do well, without much money. Don't get me wrong, I am sure, whatever happens with the ownership issue, we'll see the club breaking our transfer record fee on new signings this summer. But will we really equip him with sufficient funds to really compete at this level? I honestly don't know. I don't know if our owners have got any idea what kind of investment is needed on players at this level? And even if they do, will they release those kind of funds - or will they expect Wilder to do it on a shoestring, albeit a longer shoestring than he had before? Put it this way - if they short-change him in this department then we'll be heading back to the Championship at the end of the season - and that would be a huge blow to the club's "long term" ambitions.

The trickiest one of all though, I think, is number 3. Because I don't think that we have the skills and expertise within the club to truly market it as a global brand and develop all these necessary additional income streams. I'm sure we're capable of adding more seats - but keeping them filled is another matter - and it's dependent on doing 2 and 3 really well.

Cannot really argue with any of your points there.

'to truly market (the club) as a global brand' is a big ask. Out of all the clubs in the Premier league there are probably only about half a dozen that can truly see themselves as a 'global brand'.

There are numerous clubs who have enjoyed a lengthy stay in the top league but would never be considered as a 'global brand'.

It's winning trophies that is all important. Leicester won the league in 2016 followed by a successful (relatively) Champions League campaign but would they be considered a 'global brand'?

Chris Wilder is doing his absolute utmost on the PR front to promote the club positively but he cannot do that alone. The muppets in the High Court are not helping but lets hope there'll be a positive long term outcome to that farce.

To win something with our 'journeymen' image and our 'no cheque book culture' has to be a starting point. It's a story that would appeal across society generally and not just football.

A lot on your shoulders there Chris.
 
Has anyone been down to the Lane lately then? What's going off?
Not a great deal in terms of facilities for supporters.
Enlarged media room under the south stand.
Bigger press box at the top of the south stand.
New floodlights.
New pitch (as always).
Some individual seats are being replaced.

That’s about it so far. I’d imagine for any large scale developments we’d have to stay up for 3 or 4 seasons first.
 
Not a great deal in terms of facilities for supporters.
Enlarged media room under the south stand.
Bigger press box at the top of the south stand.
New floodlights.
New pitch (as always).
Some individual seats are being replaced.

That’s about it so far. I’d imagine for any large scale developments we’d have to stay up for 3 or 4 seasons first.

Will the programmes still be £3?
 
We're all well aware that nothing is going to happen immediately, it's just an interesting thing to talk about.

As we all know, the Kop is the main issue with the Lane, the vast majority of Championship clubs provide better facilities for away fans than we do for fans on the Kop, which is pretty poor. So for me that should be addressed as soon as reasonably possible, but the current plans don't do that in my opinion.

Have you seen the current plans? They massively improve the facilities.
Bigger and better bars, kiosks and toilets, all in a proper enclosed/ under cover concourse area.
No restricted views anywhere due to the removal of the posts.
Steeper angle for the 3,200 seats added to the back, better access.
And the massive advantage is that capacity is hardly effected whilst it’s being built, so all season ticket holders can continue to watch matches.

The ONLY issue that isn’t being address is the knee room on current seats, but giving another few inch knee room will costs millions more and will also reduce capacity.
The club aren’t going to spend multiple millions to actually REDUCE income with a lower capacity, steeper rake than present will also reduce capacity.
An alternative is they could increase prices by £10, but I can’t see anyone willing to pay an £10 to acquire an extra 2 inch knee room?

I think fans need choice, make the Kop basic but nice and acceptable, with cheaper seats.
If you want better/ nicer facilities then you can pay slightly more and go in the other stands.
 
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Will the programmes still be £3?

They've got a job listing up on the website for a programme media person, good salary, mentions increased pagination so I doubt it.

That's going to cost us at least 50p more a game.
 
Not a great deal in terms of facilities for supporters.
Enlarged media room under the south stand.
Bigger press box at the top of the south stand.
New floodlights.
New pitch (as always).
Some individual seats are being replaced.

That’s about it so far. I’d imagine for any large scale developments we’d have to stay up for 3 or 4 seasons first.

Interesting, cheers. Wasn't expecting anything in terms of capacity or huge improvements for the fans.

Has there been any reduction in capacity due to the press box? And do you know where we'll be putting Sky/BT if they choose to cover a game from the Lane?

Temporary studio on scaffold between the Kop and South like we had at times last season?
 
Not a great deal in terms of facilities for supporters.
Enlarged media room under the south stand.
Bigger press box at the top of the south stand.
New floodlights.
New pitch (as always).
Some individual seats are being replaced.

That’s about it so far. I’d imagine for any large scale developments we’d have to stay up for 3 or 4 seasons first.


Wonder what the reduced official capacity is now?
Also regards large scale developments, the last official word from the club, think it was 3 years ago,
McCabe said that once we retain our place in the PL then stadium expansion will immediately start when the season ends.
So in theory stadium expansion could start Summer 2020, although McCabe has recently announced that he wishes to sell.
So I suppose the whole stadium expansion plan is up in the air and down to any new owners.
 
Have you noticed Tottenham haven't spent a penny on players for the past two seasons? And coincidentally it coincides with their new stadium being built...

To be honest I wouldn't want to risk building a stadium or improving it until we are well out of the way from relegation threat at PL level (some where around Watford/Newcastle/Everton level). It would take a huge dint from our finances and could threaten the club competing on the football field.

I wonder why Bournemouth (11k capacity) haven't already? It's because they are well aware of the financial implications of building a stadium, and this could threaten their PL status, even though they are in desperate need of a new ground and arguably they are a well established PL team.

Remember, BDTBL will be the 12th biggest PL ground next season
 
I think a lot of Blades have short memories , we have tried to get established in a number of countries ( China India Jordan to name three )
McCabe has also had plans in place for increasing the capacity and quality of Bramall Lane .
What has always been missing is the profile and money that premiership football gives .Yes you can blame McCabe for this but he has never had the money to invest.Poor decisions on managers have cost us big time ! we finally have a manager who has got the ability and the loyalty to see any future planning comes to fruition.
We have dipped our toe in the premiership twice this is our third attempt ,we have to make it count this time.
Its obvious McCabe and the prince don't have the finance to push us on,hopefully McCabe has got someone in the wings who has.
McCabe has to win this battle as most blades don't trust the prince ,
Is this American consortium right for us ? Well this is something we have to trust McCabe ( hopefully will have learned from this ownership battle ) to get it right.Having been at the head of twenty years of turmoil ( hope that's the right word to use ) hes obviously had enough ,I think around the back end of our nightmare first season in league one he said his intention was to return us to the premiership before he retired,
he's achieved that now , I don't believe he would leave us in bad hands ( he could do that with the prince ) it would leave him with 20 futile years of running the blades, I don't believe he would leave us in a precarious position such as Coventry.
Bit long winded all this waffle but I've always believed McCabe has the best interests of the club at heart but at the same time not seeing the family business robbed of money invested in the club.
 

Interesting, cheers. Wasn't expecting anything in terms of capacity or huge improvements for the fans.

Has there been any reduction in capacity due to the press box? And do you know where we'll be putting Sky/BT if they choose to cover a game from the Lane?

Temporary studio on scaffold between the Kop and South like we had at times last season?
Capacity won’t be reduced as such, it’s just that a larger amount will be taken up by the press rather than supporters.
Studio I don’t know, heard an idea that a semi-permanent one could be built on the gantry (like there is at norwich)
 

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