Ground extentions/Renovations

[stringjunior]

EA Sports should bring out a ‘Premier League Chairman’ game. Where you have to pick managers, develop your stadium etc. Then get messages like ‘your key midfielder has broken his leg, the manager is requesting more funds’ and ‘your jute mill has leaked and you’ve lost all your disposable cash’.

A bit like Football Chairman Pro? A cracking little app

 

[Keen Blade]

Some of the suggestions on here are commercial stupidity, so wont happen.
Any suggestion must have a sound business case.

But i’ll join in the spirit
Let’s clear the site and build a smaller version of Real Madrids ground, lets say 60,000 capacity, that should be enough for when England’s get the World Cup, we could also apply for a future Champions League final too.
It would be ace.

This idea is on the right lines but it's a bit tame if you ask me - try to give your imagination some wings !

 

[stringjunior]

Kop is obviously the main issue.

It needs knocking down.

What I'd do is roof off, pillars out and knock the back off it, about half of it, and build back to front.

Essentially for a while we'd have a two tiered Kop, the top part which has been built back to front with the cantilever roof and a proper rake on it, with catering facilities and covered concourses in it; and the bottom half which would be the existing Kop, people would have to enter at the bottom and walk up obviously. Ideally it'd be done in the off season and not impact the season much, but we'd lose 5K or so if not.

At the end of a season the bottom half gets ripped out and completed to match and meet the rake of the top part.

The Pukka Pie Corner should be integrated into the Kop, not John Street, and in that corner there should be some studios for TV. The view from that corner is the most impressive I'd imagine for TV people.

Overall an increased rake would put a few thousand on the Kop attendance with the same footprint, so they can still have their flats behind it.

It wouldn't need to be that complicated. Once the pillars are gone, remove the seats and lay new terracing directly on the existing but with a different rake and meeting new stadium design regs. The problem with this idea is that new stands must have more room between seats for safety reasons. So the replacement seating with the new rake would protrude past the exising rear of the stand. Adding additional seats might then become complicated, taking the stand way back further than currently. I wonder if this is why we're talking about simply adding seats rather than more comprehensive solutions?

 

[Keen Blade]

Kop is obviously the main issue.

It needs knocking down.

What I'd do is roof off, pillars out and knock the back off it, about half of it, and build back to front.

Essentially for a while we'd have a two tiered Kop, the top part which has been built back to front with the cantilever roof and a proper rake on it, with catering facilities and covered concourses in it; and the bottom half which would be the existing Kop, people would have to enter at the bottom and walk up obviously. Ideally it'd be done in the off season and not impact the season much, but we'd lose 5K or so if not.

At the end of a season the bottom half gets ripped out and completed to match and meet the rake of the top part.

The Pukka Pie Corner should be integrated into the Kop, not John Street, and in that corner there should be some studios for TV. The view from that corner is the most impressive I'd imagine for TV people.

Overall an increased rake would put a few thousand on the Kop attendance with the same footprint, so they can still have their flats behind it.

I like this , except that the Pukka Pie Corner should be integrated into a controlled explosion and utterly obliterated , as it is an insult to the human eye and represents the very worst kind of cheapskate architecture.
And only half its seats have a view of the pitch !
I trust McSue sued the designers for dereliction of duty , as no one should draw plans when they are pissed.

 

[guancheblade]

Goodison Park? Have you ever been? The place is an absolute shit hole! It’s no surprise they have been looking to leave for decades.

What do you think Spurs fans think of their new stadium? I bet there isn’t a single Spurs fan that wishes they had kept the old White Hart Lane.

It’s all about the design, if we build a crap Leicester style bowl then no, but I’m sure a decent architect could come up with something that could help create a great look and atmosphere.

I guess we should have never got rid of the cricket at the Lane either?

My sister is a Spurs season ticket holder and she won't stop banging on about the new stadium. Says it was worth waiting an extra year for it.

 

[Keen Blade]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....bramall-lane-capacity-to-38-000-1-8898771/amp

That article deals only with the addition of 5,000 seats to the South Stand , bringing us up to almost 38k.
The Kop in that picture has a new roof and catering facilities at the back - but it's highest point is still much lower than that of the SS , so my guess is that they aren't going to steepen the rake , which is a pity.
Geometry dictates that if they steepen the rake , yet maintain at least the same number of seats , the highest point will have to be much higher than in that photo.
Unless , of course , a substantial part of it is converted to safe-standing , which MIGHT put more people in the same total space.

 

[Keen Blade]

It wouldn't need to be that complicated. Once the pillars are gone, remove the seats and lay new terracing directly on the existing but with a different rake and meeting new stadium design regs. The problem with this idea is that new stands must have more room between seats for safety reasons. So the replacement seating with the new rake would protrude past the exising rear of the stand. Adding additional seats might then become complicated, taking the stand way back further than currently. I wonder if this is why we're talking about simply adding seats rather than more comprehensive solutions?

If we go further backwards in the horizontal plane , they will need to issue binoculors or have a giant screen so I can see the action in the opposite goalmouth from Row YY !

 

[bromtom]

I like this , except that the Pukka Pie Corner should be integrated into a controlled explosion and utterly obliterated , as it is an insult to the human eye and represents the very worst kind of cheapskate architecture.
And only half its seats have a view of the pitch !
I trust McSue sued the designers for dereliction of duty , as no one should draw plans when they are pissed.

Yeah, that corner should go the same way as it's former sponsor Streetwise Sports and disappear, I'm talking about an entirely new build where the corner is, joined to the Kop and not stuck to a wall on the side of John Street that you can't see past.

 

[Topplayersleave]

Sorry Keef, this is bigger Blade nonsense.
The simple fact is we’ve had a 25,000 core for the passed two seasons, and the prices for potential Premiership football is amazing so those 25,000 have gone for the ST. In addition those who can’t make every game due to work or other commitments have also worked out the costs and the ST is still the way to go.
I’m not 100% sure on the numbers sold and how many are held back for full price but our core support has been growing and next year we’ll have 30,000 in the ground every week regardless of the opposition.

Exactly, football clubs build their support by constantly being in the Premier League, winning trophies and qualifying for Europe.
Every season we are there our support will grow.

There was a time in the late 80' and early 90's even as a top flight club under Bassett where I thought the damage done previously had cost us almost our entire potential fanbase.
There was a time when I could never have seen 30,000 attending Bramall Lane ever again on a regular basis.

The next step is to get 40,000 attending regularly and contrary to the belief of some, if we stay in the Premier league that will happen, especially if we won something.
It's not that hard to win a cup, get a couple of good draws and you can be in a final before you know where you are, we've even got fairly close as a League One club so there's no reason to rule it out.

 

[Jon Bon II]

With the present Mayor being a Blade , we need to get approval , sharpish , to build out over Bramall Lane , creating a tunnel for the road to run through , under a new 2-tier stand at that end - it's the easiest extension to do , without affecting present capacity. .

LOL..!

As if the mayor has anything to do with planning decisions...

Head of Planning: 'Have you seen these plans for a new stand at Bramall Lane, with the road going under. That'll never get approved.'

Magid: Eeee, nah then. What's wrong wi thi. It looks mint that does. If owt, it could be bigger. Come ere...' (snatches drawings and starts doodling on them)

Magid: Look, y'can easily get another tier on t'top an carry it on, all t'way dahn John Street. Council will compulsory purchase them 'ouses an t'firms. It'll look brilliant when it's done. Gerrit approved'

HoP: 'Er, yes Mr Mayor. Whatever you say Mr Mayor.'

 

[Berkshire Blade]

Liverpools new stand cost £112 million. Now it may not cost us that much due to Liverpool needing to buy out homes nearby but it only brings in £12 million a year extra for them. You'd have to think we'd struggle to bring in anything like that anytime soon...

Unless McCabe can get mates rates....

 

[JohnDenver]

It's not that hard to win a cup,

Yeah we’ve just not tried for the last half century.

 

[FallowfieldBlade]

I’d change the seats on John street there looking a bit pink to me surely that won’t cost too much

 

[NuddysGloves]

I’d change the seats on John street there looking a bit pink to me surely that won’t cost too much

Not an issue if people are sat on them!

 

[MobileBlade]

Some of the suggestions on here are commercial stupidity, so wont happen.
Any suggestion must have a sound business case.

But i’ll join in the spirit
Let’s clear the site and build a smaller version of Real Madrids ground, lets say 60,000 capacity, that should be enough for when England’s get the World Cup, we could also apply for a future Champions League final too.
It would be ace.

What a load of crap. You need to have a minimum 70,000 capacity to quality for a Champions League final.


(It's true actually although Kiev this year only holds 65,000!)

 

[away ends always empty.]

I’d change the seats on John street there looking a bit pink to me surely that won’t cost too much

And can we have some of them cushions you tie to your garden furniture

 

[bromtom]

I’d change the seats on John street there looking a bit pink to me surely that won’t cost too much

Maybe there's a treatment they can apply, get them a bit redder.

Also the Pukka Pie corner. In fact just save yourself a job in the future and put white seats in the Pukka Pie corner, they're basically white anyway.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

I'm sure we’ll give most of the stadium a bit of a spruce up ahead of August (think we did the same back in summer 2006).

For the ground improvements & commercial viability argument, I doubt there was much return for the corner on Bramall Lane/SS, yet we went ahead with it anyway. The Kop hasn’t had anything substantial done to it since it was built on the cheap – I’d like to see us remedy that. No pillars, single tier, better rake, better facilities. You might argue these are needless – I’d argue it would help bring in revenue, improve fans experience in using the stand, and increase its use. And generally be the final step needed to modernise our ground.

 

[PaulHalfway]

Kop desperately needs renovating
New roof and bar, restaurant facilities and add the extra seats at the back
Absolute priority to get on with this now

 

[Sheffsteel]

It wouldn't need to be that complicated. Once the pillars are gone, remove the seats and lay new terracing directly on the existing but with a different rake and meeting new stadium design regs. The problem with this idea is that new stands must have more room between seats for safety reasons. So the replacement seating with the new rake would protrude past the exising rear of the stand. Adding additional seats might then become complicated, taking the stand way back further than currently. I wonder if this is why we're talking about simply adding seats rather than more comprehensive solutions?

If the rake is increased to be steeper then there would be an immediate reduction in capacity.
Even to keep the Kop at the present capacity it the Kop stand would need
Allowing more leg room again leads to a reduction in capacity.

No business is going to spend millions unless there’s some benefit to that business.
Reducing the capacity of a stand will mean a decrease in revenue, so it’s a non starter.

Another factor to consider is safe standing, might be better to wait until we know if it’s being introduced.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Yeah, that corner should go the same way as it's former sponsor Streetwise Sports and disappear, I'm talking about an entirely new build where the corner is, joined to the Kop and not stuck to a wall on the side of John Street that you can't see past.

In order to join the Kop to the corner, the rake of the Kop would need to line up and be made steeper
This would cost additional money and actually lower the capacity on the Kop.

Some of suggested getting rid of the Pukka Pie corner but again why would the club spend demolition costs to reduce capacity if we lost those seats. I believe the plan is to remove the pillars and part of the wall, so that that corner no longer has restricted views.

 

[I should coco]

Anyone thinking the Prince will stick his hand in his pocket and fund a new ground nearer the M1 needs their bumps feeling.

Everton's proposed ground will cost substantialy more than the £300m first projected.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...costs-escalate-2022-target-bramley-moore-dock

The Stadium of Light cost £24m in 1997, so adding on inflation at 3% a year gives about £45m but that is construction only and I would suggest that land is a lot cheaper in depressed Sunderland.

So go somehwere between the two for a 50 -60k stadium and you are talking in the region of £100 - £200m.

Does anyone seriously think that the Prince, who is reluctant to pay KM £25m for the Lane, will shell out that sort of cash?

 

[Pedro's Winger]

When we come back down, spend the first season knocking down and rebuilding the kop.

 

[Boxer Blade]

My sister is a Spurs season ticket holder and she won't stop banging on about the new stadium. Says it was worth waiting an extra year for it.

Fuckin ell we've only just got promoted to the premier league and you're suggesting we start to support spurs? Tell your sis to do one, mind you if we go down.......

 

[Sheffsteel]

When we come back down, spend the first season knocking down and rebuilding the kop.

So where do we put the 9,000 season ticket holders on the Kop?
With home capacity reduced to 19,000 then maybe we’re hoping that 1000’s of the current 26,000 season ticket holders don’t renew.
We would be forced to put most of the remaining Kop season ticket holders in the BLUT meaning no pay on the day.

Unless you’r a season ticket holder then you’ll not see a game, surely this would piss off loads of genuine fans with many threatening never to return after being basically banned from the stadium for at least a season.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

So where do we put the 9,000 season ticket holders on the Kop?
With home capacity reduced to 19,000 then maybe we’re hoping that 1000’s of the current 26,000 season ticket holders don’t renew.
We would be forced to put most of the remaining Kop season ticket holders in the BLUT meaning no pay on the day.

Unless you’r a season ticket holder then you’ll not see a game, surely this would piss off loads of genuine fans with many threatening never to return after being basically banned from the stadium for at least a season.

It sounds like your proposal is to never do anything substantial to the structure of the stadium ever again, because it will cost money and people might need to move seat temporarily. Is that right?

 

[Pedro's Winger]

So where do we put the 9,000 season ticket holders on the Kop?
With home capacity reduced to 19,000 then maybe we’re hoping that 1000’s of the current 26,000 season ticket holders don’t renew.
We would be forced to put most of the remaining Kop season ticket holders in the BLUT meaning no pay on the day.

Unless you’r a season ticket holder then you’ll not see a game, surely this would piss off loads of genuine fans with many threatening never to return after being basically banned from the stadium for at least a season.

Maybe but the kop needs rebuilding completely after being done on the cheap first time round. It's already usually the last stand to sellout because it's a relatively poor stand now.

 

[haich1889]

With the present Mayor being a Blade , we need to get approval , sharpish , to build out over Bramall Lane , creating a tunnel for the road to run through , under a new 2-tier stand at that end - it's the easiest extension to do , without affecting present capacity. This is what Man Utd did at the back of the old United Road stand - mind you , Manchester has a forward thinking entrepreneurial Council , not like ours which has previously consisted of a stubborn bunch of pig-fans. We definitely do NOT want a cheap add-on at the back of the Kop which is too shallow rake. The whole Kop needs re-hashing , steeper rake , with huge catering facilities underneath , if it's gonna be done at all. Better to do the more radical Bramall Lane idea , or failing that , the existing South Stand , which at least has a steep enough rake to be left as is , when it forms the bottom tier of that side.

I reckon this idea is the best proposal of all especially regarding short term loss of capacity. Is this an idea that's been officially muted or have the plans been drawn up by a fan..
When i wrote the OP, i did so before ALL season tickets had been sold. Surely this season ticket news brings even more urgency to increasing ground capacity. Such is the draw of Premiership football in 'small' backwaters like Bournemouth, Burnley, Southampton, Watford etc the potential in Englands fourth City, with it's 2 University's must be immeasurable.

 

[Sheffsteel]

It sounds like your proposal is to never do anything substantial to the structure of the stadium ever again, because it will cost money and people might need to move seat temporarily. Is that right?

Costing money is never a problem, depends what the benefit is and the return on investment.
Moving to temporary seating shouldn’t be a problem, although I’m sure some would complain if they they are moved from their seat they’ve sat in for many years.

However if the Kop site is flattened then I can only think the temporary seating would be 3,000 seats in the BLUT.
There’s currently 9,000 season tickets holders on the Kop, the South stand and corners stand are currently sold out.
So how do you decide which 6,000 of the season tickets holders are to face a ban from the ground for 1 year.
Also what about casual fans, there will be no tickets available for sale for at least 1 year.
Surely such restrictions would have a really negative affect on our fanbase.
If I had my season ticket taken off me, then i’d find something else to do and once capacity is increased again I might not return,

A team of experts have studied the ground expansion conundrum and will have proposed several business cases for several options.
The current Kop design addresses almost every issue on the current Kop, yes it’s the cheap option but it still massively improves the experience for our fans. There are rumours that safe standing might be introduced in a year or two, so we might be better off waiting until we know what happening regards safe standing.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Maybe but the kop needs rebuilding completely after being done on the cheap first time round. It's already usually the last stand to sellout because it's a relatively poor stand now.

I know that ideally the Kop needs rebuilding but are you suggesting that we ban current season holders from the ground?
What system would you use to decide who receives a 18 month ban from attending Bramall Lane.
Would it be last in first out, so all our new supporters from this season are told to go away for 18 months because there’s no room.