Alleged racism by a Sheffield United Ladies player

[Hamburg Blade]

Is there a difference because this incident was on the pitch, and whilst acting as an SUFC employee, and the other incidents I assume you are referring to were not?

Possibly, but that's a fine distinction. One I doubt the club took into account.

 

[PokerBlade]

Money saving I can believe. Breach of contract because of a ban, not so much. Gross misconduct because of racism more likely. I have to wonder, if this was the men's first team and the player was key - and had cost a lot to buy, would the contract have been terminated.

I would imagine that under the same circumstances we would have "mutually agreed" to end a male player's contract.

But I also know for a fact that player's with worse records (Marlon King) are signed later because people in football have a short memory when it suits.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Terminating her contract on hearing the ruling is most definitely endorsing the guilty verdict.

Indeed, and notably not what we did with Evans, at least publicly (contract allowed to just expire) whereas we immediately terminated the contract of the youth player that tweeted about the verdict.

 

[GymClassHero]

Hate to say it but... Told you so.

As I said, no smoke without fire. Good riddance I hate racists.

 

[FMBlade1]

If a male player goes and goes the same thing for us and isn't sacked could that lead to a gender discrimination lawsuit being raised against us?

Why didn't Liverpool sack Suarez and why didn't Chelsea sack Terry?

If Sharp did the same thing would those who support Jones being sacked want the same thing for him?

I abhor racism, but couldn't she just have had an unpaid Cantona style long ban before being reintegrated?

In the end it all comes down to this:

 

[8lade]

It doesn't sound like the accuser was the only one to witness the noises from what I remember.

I haven't seen anything which would suggest anybody else had heard anything.

Hate to say it but... Told you so.

As I said, no smoke without fire. Good riddance I hate racists.

Do you have any evidence other than an adage?

Jones has had her contract terminated by Sheffield United, who said that the forward "maintains her innocence and is disappointed with the FA's decision".

 

[PokerBlade]

If a male player goes and goes the same thing for us and isn't sacked could that lead to a gender discrimination lawsuit being raised against us?

Why didn't Liverpool sack Suarez and why didn't Chelsea sack Terry?

If Sharp did the same thing would those who support Jones being sacked want the same thing for him?

I abhor racism, but couldn't she just have had an unpaid Cantona style long ban before being reintegrated?

In the end it all comes down to this:

IANAL but the club is using the length remaining on her contract as part of the reason for the termination. That protects them somewhat because it would require another instance of this happening to involve those same circumstances. Also terminating the contract by "mutual consent" means it would have to be shown that the termination was coerced. And she'd probably have to argue that we would've renewed her contract were it not for the FA charge.

The club's actual lawyers will have considered all this long before a verdict was given.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

I haven't seen anything which would suggest anybody else had heard anything.

Do you have any evidence other than an adage?

Jones has had her contract terminated by Sheffield United, who said that the forward "maintains her innocence and is disappointed with the FA's decision".

There was something in the initial report - it might have just been something along the lines of being 'backed' by someone, rather than witnessed.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

I hope anyone found guilty of making monkey noises would be instantly dismissed by the club, be that a player, manager or admin staff.

 

[GymClassHero]

I haven't seen anything which would suggest anybody else had heard anything.



Do you have any evidence other than an adage?

Jones has had her contract terminated by Sheffield United, who said that the forward "maintains her innocence and is disappointed with the FA's decision".

In all fairness though who is going to publicly admit to it? Did Suarez? I know if I thought I could wriggle out of a public flogging by denial I would definitely do it.

I'm not naive and supported Evans because the evidence pointed toward innocence. With this case I believe she did make a racist remark.

That being said I respect your opinion

 

[eccoblade]

Burn her.

If she weighs the same as a duck and has a wart burn her

 

[wizadry]

I’m trying to think of a male player who has firstly been found guilty of racial remarks and then secondly had their contract terminated? I can’t think of one!

 

[LoughboroBlade]

I’m trying to think of a male player who has firstly been found guilty of racial remarks and then secondly had their contract terminated? I can’t think of one!

Here you go. https://talksport.com/football/418555/anthony-gerrard-sacked-oldham-athletic/

 

[wizadry]

Here you go. https://talksport.com/football/418555/anthony-gerrard-sacked-oldham-athletic/

I didn’t think he was found guilty of anything?

 

[LoughboroBlade]

I didn’t think he was found guilty of anything?

He seemingly was, and he was punished as a result – by the club (that sacked him), and by the FA that gave him a lenient punishment (presumably partly influenced by the fact he’d already been sacked by his club at the time).
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46651100

 

[wizadry]

He seemingly was, and he was punished as a result – by the club (that sacked him), and by the FA that gave him a lenient punishment (presumably partly influenced by the fact he’d already been sacked by his club at the time).
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46651100

I’m struggling to see what his punishment was though LB as he didn’t get any game bans and went straight to Carlisle after so he was still getting paid?

 

[LoughboroBlade]

I’m struggling to see what his punishment was though LB as he didn’t get any game bans and went straight to Carlisle after so he was still getting paid?

When put like that it’s not exactly been career-ending, but sacking a player is quite an extreme and rare thing for a club to do. I’d argue that’s the most severe punishment any club could take against their own player.

 

[wizadry]

When put like that it’s not exactly been career-ending, but sacking a player is quite an extreme and rare thing for a club to do. I’d argue that’s the most severe punishment any club could take against their own player.

Yeah, you’re probably right LB but it stinks of double standards to me and she’s come out fighting it tonight with some harsh words as to how the judgement was reached. I’m not sticking up for any racists by the way for obvious reasons but you can’t do what’s happened to Jones after they’ve done literally fuckall to Gerrard.

 

[zablade]

Is the women’s team self funded or does the club pay running costs out of a combined budget with the rest of the club?

 

[8lade]

https://www.skysports.com/football/...om-football-and-hits-out-at-fa-for-racism-ban

Anybody interested here is Jones' response.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Is the women’s team self funded or does the club pay running costs out of a combined budget with the rest of the club?

Don’t believe any women’s teams are self funded.However it’s seen as a big positive to promote and include all groups into the beautiful game. The top women’s league have just received massive sponsorship from Barclays Bank so at the top level maybe it might become more self funding.

 

[Beat Jedi]

Sounds like convicted on not much evidence tbh. United seem to say they believe her then terminate her contract. She seems pretty strong minded about it saying she’s giving up football. No idea who’s right really neither are the FA really but they probably want to be seen to be taking action (as seemingly do United). We will probably never know the truth. Disband the team. I bet United weren’t expecting this when they embarked on this box-ticking exercise. Leave it to Sheff FC to develop women’s football in Sheffield. Whatever we’re putting into United women give it Sheff FC. We really don’t fucking need United, Weds and Sheff FC women’s teams in Sheffield for Christ’s sake. We can’t get one top level men’s team here (yet).

 

[Har Sole]

Hate to say it but... Told you so.

As I said, no smoke without fire. Good riddance I hate racists.

I think people are being simplistic saying 'hate racism'. I think we're all racist if we analyse it enough. If you see groups of people in the street they're almost always with friends of their own colour, and people almost always prefer to live in areas with their own sort of people- I think that's racism but we almost all do it. Maybe it's genetically programmed to be racist and 'keep with our own sort' for 'survival of the fittest'?

Also it seems to me that a lot of African's are pretty racist ( e.g. the Hutu/Tutsi massacre in Rwanda, and this recent bus hijacking in Italy https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47642298). Likewise a lot of child grooming gangs seem highly racist towards white kids.

I don't think people should shout racist abuse to each other, and there shouldn't be racial discrimination at work. On the other hand I can see that the white people have been mostly safe in a white Europe for thousands of years-it might be racist to want to keep it that way, but arguably it's common sense to avoid racial attacks against them?.

I don't know if this woman was guilty or not, but I think it's unfair she was found guilty on the balance of probablity -50.1% is too weak a legal test for shoplifting so it's certainly not strong enough for this charge.

 

[SteveBlade]

 

[sportinguista]

I think people are being simplistic saying 'hate racism'.
I don't know if this woman was guilty or not, but I think it's unfair she was found guilty on the balance of probablity -50.1% is too weak a legal test for shoplifting so it's certainly not strong enough for this charge.

But 52% is legally enough to throw a nation into absolute chaos.

 

[HoodedClaw]

But 52% is legally enough to throw a nation into absolute chaos.

The commons into choas maybe, the Nation into a coma more like.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

I think people are being simplistic saying 'hate racism'. I think we're all racist if we analyse it enough.

No, we're not.

 

[BushBlade]

I think people are being simplistic saying 'hate racism'. I think we're all racist if we analyse it enough. If you see groups of people in the street they're almost always with friends of their own colour, and people almost always prefer to live in areas with their own sort of people- I think that's racism but we almost all do it. Maybe it's genetically programmed to be racist and 'keep with our own sort' for 'survival of the fittest'?

Also it seems to me that a lot of African's are pretty racist ( e.g. the Hutu/Tutsi massacre in Rwanda, and this recent bus hijacking in Italy https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47642298). Likewise a lot of child grooming gangs seem highly racist towards white kids.

I don't think people should shout racist abuse to each other, and there shouldn't be racial discrimination at work. On the other hand I can see that the white people have been mostly safe in a white Europe for thousands of years-it might be racist to want to keep it that way, but arguably it's common sense to avoid racial attacks against them?.

I don't know if this woman was guilty or not, but I think it's unfair she was found guilty on the balance of probablity -50.1% is too weak a legal test for shoplifting so it's certainly not strong enough for this charge.

‘On the other hand I can see that the white people have been mostly safe in a white Europe for thousands of years-it might be racist to want to keep it that way, but arguably it's common sense to avoid racial attacks against them?’

What?

 

[vorpal blade]

was there no video record at all in this case .... seems hard to believe?

if there is a video - but no audible or visible monkey chanting then .... there is no evidence.

The FA has taken to 'virtue-signalling' ..... in a similar case Mason Holgate (then of Everton) accused Firmino of Liverpool of having used as racist term of abuse against him ..... so scared are the FA of being accused of racism that despite legion Brazilian and Portuguese lip readers saying that there was no such word uttered having viewed video tape from many angles - they didn't punish Holgate for his allegation, despite Firmino's being cleared of the charge.

"Aluko has not been called up to the national team since May 2016.[81] Earlier in 2016, she was paid £80,000 by the Football Association despite a barrister stating there was not sufficient evidence to Aluko's claims of racism and bullying by head coach Mark Sampson and other staff. The Football Association later publicly apologised to Aluko after the same barrister found racist remarks were made to her and teammate Drew Spence" ... wiki page on Eni Aluko

... it's certainly a minefield - hence the FA's defensive position now.

 

[Sheffsteel]

was there no video record at all in this case .... seems hard to believe?

if there is a video - but no audible or visible monkey chanting then .... there is no evidence.

The FA has taken to 'virtue-signalling' ..... in a similar case Mason Holgate (then of Everton) accused Firmino of Liverpool of having used as racist term of abuse against him ..... so scared are the FA of being accused of racism that despite legion Brazilian and Portuguese lip readers saying that there was no such word uttered having viewed video tape from many angles - they didn't punish Holgate for his allegation, despite Firmino's being cleared of the charge.

"Aluko has not been called up to the national team since May 2016.[81] Earlier in 2016, she was paid £80,000 by the Football Association despite a barrister stating there was not sufficient evidence to Aluko's claims of racism and bullying by head coach Mark Sampson and other staff. The Football Association later publicly apologised to Aluko after the same barrister found racist remarks were made to her and teammate Drew Spence" ... wiki page on Eni Aluko

... it's certainly a minefield - hence the FA's defensive position now.

Agree...it is a minefield.

Was listening to Talksport last night and they quickly mentioned this case.
One journalist said the female players still pleads her innocence saying it was a kangaroo court with the FA determined to find her guilty. The co presenter Darren Lewis (a well respected London based black sports journalist with very strong anti racism views) kind of ignored this saying it’s good that FA have sent out such a strong message that racism is not acceptable.

He basically inferred that it didn’t matter if she was innocent because the greater cause of anti racism is much more important.
In some ways I agree, that it does send out a great message to society but I feel uncomfortable that this girl might be a totally innocent scapegoat used as collateral damage for the greater good. We should be living in a democracy but political correctness seems to be taking control effecting some decisions and effecting how we live.