Alleged racism by a Sheffield United Ladies player

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BushBlade said:
No, not all of the time and it’s not a personality trait. If you’d said useless twats who drag me up to Alperton to pick my car up when they’ve only done half the repairs then I may have agreed. If you’d said all insurance companies are shithouses I’d definitely have agreed.
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If it wasn't for having close people in law, Direct line would have cost me my career.

So we can definitely agree on that one.
 

BushBlade said:
The FA really should be issuing their report. I don’t agree that cases like this should be private when the judgement and punishment are made public.
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I fully agree with this, everything is in place otherwise they couldn't have come to a verdict, so publish it all now.
 
BushBlade said:
If you’d said all insurance companies are shithouses I’d definitely have agreed.
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Can't agree with this. My house was burgled and I was really worried how the insurance claim would play out as it had been the cheapest insurance I could get though an online broker. I can't think of any reasonable thing I could've asked more from them (bit slow with the jewellery claim but we chased it and all was good).
 
8lade said:
Can't agree with this. My house was burgled and I was really worried how the insurance claim would play out as it had been the cheapest insurance I could get though an online broker. I can't think of any reasonable thing I could've asked more from them (bit slow with the jewellery claim but we chased it and all was good).
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Hi Direct Line.
 
8lade said:
Can't agree with this. My house was burgled and I was really worried how the insurance claim would play out as it had been the cheapest insurance I could get though an online broker. I can't think of any reasonable thing I could've asked more from them (bit slow with the jewellery claim but we chased it and all was good).
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Which kind of proves my point about making generalisations.
 
BushBlade said:
I know a couple of architects that I’d consider to be incompetent. Does that mean you all are? Would you like to be judged as a person based solely on your profession?
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fair comment, I think though one has to generalise a little in order to form an opinion and discuss things, or, say, vote in an election, you won't agree with all your MP utters or her views on everything - but you generalise their opinions and vote accordingly - you do sometimes have to do the same thing about groups of people and I don't think it is necessarily more discriminatory than is acceptable.
 
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vorpal blade said:
"The case against Sophie Jones was heard by an Independent Regulatory Commission, comprising two independent lawyers and a former football player and manager." ... Skysports' account of Jones's side of things

how the hell can the FA appoint an 'independent' tribunal - did they offer their services for free?

monkey chants as words with racist intent asks as many questions of Darwinism & linguistics as it does of Miss Jones.
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The FA will presumably have some rule that players agree to which says that disputes are resolved by tribunal. Usually there's a small list and the parties agree to which one they want to use. There have been challenges to all aspects of this, some have been upheld and some dismissed but generally the idea is that people agree to go to a tribunal rather than be compelled as you would be in court.

But, once again, I am not a lawyer.
 
vorpal blade said:
fair comment, I think though one has to generalise a little in order to form an opinion and discuss things.
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Whereas I think if you can’t form an opinion based on an analysis of the facts then you should heavily caveat your opinion or simply not have one. So I’ll wait until the FA publish their version until I form mine, and even then I may have to hold my hands up and say ‘I don’t know’.

I sometimes get the impression that we’re supposed to have an opinion on everything these days. I’m OK at my job, I know a bit about football but that’s it really, I’m not an expert in everything and there are some things I just can’t get my head around, as well as things I don’t care enough about to research properly.
 
BushBlade said:
Whereas I think if you can’t form an opinion based on an analysis of the facts
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I have seen footballers and heard them for many years, and it's my opinion (as at least a sometime educationalist) that the English ones , generally don't seem to have received much education at important times in their development - and that's why I call them dim.

They are reportedly often rather self-centred and daft and that adds to the impression I have of them along with their generally lacking the dignity to not fall over grabbing uninjured parts of the anatomy if they think it gains them an advantage on the field of play despite the fact it won't impress millions of people who see them cheat, and when it comes to petty cheating, it's 90% of them.

Oddly, the women haven't been so infected by dishonesty - but I suppose the richer the women's game gets, the more they'll cheat?
 
vorpal blade said:
I have seen footballers and heard them for many years, and it's my opinion (as at least a sometime educationalist) that the English ones , generally don't seem to have received much education at important times in their development - and that's why I call them dim.

They are reportedly often rather self-centred and daft and that adds to the impression I have of them along with their generally lacking the dignity to not fall over grabbing uninjured parts of the anatomy if they think it gains them an advantage on the field of play despite the fact it won't impress millions of people who see them cheat, and when it comes to petty cheating, it's 90% of them.

Oddly, the women haven't been so infected by dishonesty - but I suppose the richer the women's game gets, the more they'll cheat?
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That’s a very dated view. There a plenty of well educated kids from middle class backgrounds at academies and playing professionally because of the potential earnings.

Back in the day when most footballers earned a reasonable but not outrageous wage and had to continue to work after they’d retired, it was a poor alternative to studying, going to uni and getting a job in the professions or middle management, where your lifetime earnings would be higher.

That’s not the case now which is why Patrick Bamford turned down a place at Harvard, why the Southampton academy had a policy of trying to recruit middle class kids with supportive parents, why more and more young footballers sound like Kitson.
 
Sheffsteel said:
“well.....mmmm....but I equally find it hard to believe that a black person would make up an accusation about something that is so serious”.
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BushBlade said:
I can’t believe she did it but I can’t believe the other player would make it up.
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I'm not talking about this case, as I don't know the ins and outs but I can believe a person would feign being a victim of racial abuse.

Theres sympathy, attention and even fame for being the victim of such abuse - the Jussie Smollett case being an (alleged) example.
 
BushBlade said:
I agree which is why I haven’t commented on whether or not I think she did it because I’ve only heard her side of the story, I simply said I find it as hard to believe anyone would do it and hard to believe anyone would make it up.

The idea that you can stereotype all footballers and simply categorise them as all being the same isn’t a view I subscribe to. Just because Holgate may have made it up, or misheard in the heat of the moment isn’t a good indicator that it’s the norm. I know a couple of architects that I’d consider to be incompetent. Does that mean you all are? Would you like to be judged as a person based solely on your profession?

The FA really should be issuing their report. I don’t agree that cases like this should be private when the judgement and punishment are made public.
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Judgement, punishment and the original allegation, splashed all over social media long before any tribunal is convened. Not my idea of a fair trial.
 
Chali 2na said:
I'm not talking about this case, as I don't know the ins and outs but I can believe a person would feign being a victim of racial abuse.

Theres sympathy, attention and even fame for being the victim of such abuse - the Jussie Smollett case being an (alleged) example.
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Yeah, I suppose I’m saying I find it hard to believe rather than I just don’t believe it. One thing twitter has revealed is that there are a lot of strange people around, people that you’d pass in the street and assume were pretty much like you or I but have bizarre ideas and thoughts that they tweet, trolling and abusing people. I guess it’s only a matter of time before people just take that behaviour into real life.

But I’d hope that if the alleged victim was lying, it will come out eventually because I wouldn’t like to think her entire team was complicit.
 

I think there's such pressure on the FA and sport in general to tackle racism and rightly so.

However when does that pressure become so much that the accused has to prove their innocence rather than the prosecution prove guilt?

The FA are almost obliged to find guilt, because if they side with the accused, they're seen to be almost condoning racism, even if none has even taken place.
 
vorpal blade said:
we differ - on matters of class, dignity and education.

I'm sure however that we can agree that the way footballers cheat as a matter of course, is classless.
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My opinion is that ‘cheating’ is endemic in the game and any player who doesn’t do it is a bit naive.

Your first sentence makes you sound as if you’re putting yourself on a pedestal, which I’m sure you didn’t intend. Of course all the politicians that are doing such a good job in running our country are very well educated and come, in the main, from upper middle class or upper class backgrounds. Personally I think they lack dignity, which perhaps demonstrates it’s not something one can buy, or is the sole preserve of the educated.
 
BushBlade said:
My opinion is that ‘cheating’ is endemic in the game and any player who doesn’t do it is a bit naive.
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disagree strongly.

every time a ball goes out if there are two opposing players anywhere near, both put their hands up to claim it's their throw in.

it is possible for a player to be fouled and yet stay upright but referees don't give a foul for that - so they nearly always fall down it's sheer acting. ALL but VERY few players do it.

Am I the naïf?
 
Sean Thornton said:
Also charged with using racist language

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I'm not sure if the elephant man has ever played at the Lane, but if so It's obviously our fault.

Deduct us 10 points and award the FA Cup to the CheatinAmmers to make it 'fair on the fans'.
 
vorpal blade said:
disagree strongly.

every time a ball goes out if there are two opposing players anywhere near, both put their hands up to claim it's their throw in.

it is possible for a player to be fouled and yet stay upright but referees don't give a foul for that - so they nearly always fall down it's sheer acting. ALL but VERY few players do it.

Am I the naïf?
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I’m sorry but I’ve read the words several times and I still don’t understand the point you’re trying to make.
 
BushBlade said:
That’s a very dated view. There a plenty of well educated kids from middle class backgrounds at academies and playing professionally because of the potential earnings.

Back in the day when most footballers earned a reasonable but not outrageous wage and had to continue to work after they’d retired, it was a poor alternative to studying, going to uni and getting a job in the professions or middle management, where your lifetime earnings would be higher.

That’s not the case now which is why Patrick Bamford turned down a place at Harvard, why the Southampton academy had a policy of trying to recruit middle class kids with supportive parents, why more and more young footballers sound like Kitson.
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I truly don’t think potential earnings is what attracts middle class families to have their kids play football. So few make it that it’s just like buying a lottery ticket.

From speaking to a few parents, the amount of time and cost in supporting a kid’s football career ambition via the academy route is punishing. So I’d guess more middle class kids are popping up in academies than working their way through the pyramid after getting a degree (as used to be the case).

I’ve no evidence to support that but it seems logical.
 

It’s interesting that part of the evidence used appears to be that she said ‘better luck next time’ - I don’t know why that’s been included.
 
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