First half tactics

[Bladesboy0]

Not one to start a thread on here much but haven't seen it mentioned elsewhere.
The new tactic that was seen at Brentford as well as the first half yesterday may be down to us tiring out in games later on in the season as especially was shown last year. With the somewhat stronger defence than last year is the sitting back tactic to save our legs so we can go full tilt in the second half without the risk of running out of steam. Will be very interesting in my opinion if this tactic is used again at away games as in the first half we never really looked like conceding.

 

[Ricky]

It's risky but bringing on Duffy at half time could transform the way we finish games. Not sure last night was a game to start that way though.

 

[sitwell]

But according to shoutbox we were wank ,shit , lost the plot ,run out of steam ,same as last season ,nge ,wank again ,clueless ,toothless ,and when I protested I became the anti Christ clapper ,it was fucking painful on there yesterday until we scored ,then they all vanished.

 

[bromtom]

Tend to agree with the studio analysis that against a better team we could have been in trouble.

But I'd rather have a strong second half than first if I have to pick. I really can't take the last 10 minutes of normal United games anymore haha

I like the Wednesday last season formation myself if we're going for containment and we've not used it since really.

3-5-1-1, Bash inbetween defence and midfield, McG behind a striker. Can play Cranie at RB and take him off for Duffy, let Bash go back to RB when we want to go to our normal style.

 

[Pollingtonblade]

But according to shoutbox we were wank ,shit , lost the plot ,run out of steam ,same as last season ,nge ,wank again ,clueless ,toothless ,and when I protested I became the anti Christ clapper ,it was fucking painful on there yesterday until we scored ,then they all vanished.

You forgot ‘boring’ ‘garbage’ ‘Washingcunt is shit’

 

[DronnieBlade]

I simply don’t see this in the same way as others.

I don’t see the need to rotate players on the basis it saves their “legs”.

Wilder is quick to point out that we should ALWAYS go out on to the field and “be us”.

My take on this is that this, at times, is made MORE difficult when arguably your 2 most influential players rarely complete 90 minutes football.

The rhetoric appears to be “leg saving” as it’s a long hard season. I am sure there is some truth in this.

But equally, it has become far too habitual, and thus I have to question the wisdom.

NEITHER player, to my untrained eye, tires significantly as the game progresses. Again, the suggestion is there is more to it.

I would just love to know what “it” is !!

UTB

 

[Gin&Juice]

It's risky but bringing on Duffy at half time could transform the way we finish games. Not sure last night was a game to start that way though.

I think the reasoning as to why has both been discussed by Wilder, pundits and this board. It's a nice idea, I don't think we have the squad currently to manage games in this way. I think defense wise I'm happy with bringing in Stearman, Freeman or even Cranie into the mix as they're solid and dependable but upfront and creatively we don't have any specific players who can come in and do job as equal or different to what our strongest first 11. I think we really need to be clever in using the loan market in January as well as signing a new striker and a box to box.

 

[LSF]

But according to shoutbox we were wank ,shit , lost the plot ,run out of steam ,same as last season ,nge ,wank again ,clueless ,toothless ,and when I protested I became the anti Christ clapper ,it was fucking painful on there yesterday until we scored ,then they all vanished.

That's why I barely give it time of day. Full of, well..... Is there a word to describe 'em?

 

[Large Mendonca]

But according to shoutbox we were wank ,shit , lost the plot ,run out of steam ,same as last season ,nge ,wank again ,clueless ,toothless ,and when I protested I became the anti Christ clapper ,it was fucking painful on there yesterday until we scored ,then they all vanished.

I wouldn't call myself a clapper and have been a bit critical in the past, but the shoutbox is degenerating to a whole new level of complete bollocks on match days, especially when we remind ourselves:-

Henderson - Loan
Baldock - Signed from MK Dons (when in L1?)
Stevens - Signed from Portsmouth (when in L2)
O'Connell - Unwanted by Brentford
Basham - Signed from Blackpool
Egan - Deemed surplus by Brentford
Lundstram- Signed from Oxford
Fleck - Signed from Coventry
Duffy - Deemed surplus and not good enough for Burton !
Norwood - Admittedly quality - a steal at £2m
McGoldrick - Deemed surplus by Ipswich
Washington - Deemed surplus by QPR
Sharp - Journeyman striker seemingly past it

Stearman - Deemed surplus by Wolves
Coutts - Deemed surplus by Adkins !!
Moore - Deemed surplus by Cardiff
Crainee - Deemed surplus by Blackburn
Johnson - Deemed surplus by Boro

Think i've got that right, but you get the jist. We sit in 3rd place in a very competetive Championship having invested the square root of fuck all and it's still not good enough for some.

 

[Northyorksblade]

But according to shoutbox we were wank ,shit , lost the plot ,run out of steam ,same as last season ,nge ,wank again ,clueless ,toothless ,and when I protested I became the anti Christ clapper ,it was fucking painful on there yesterday until we scored ,then they all vanished.

There have been a couple of games recently where I haven't been able to go, couldn't watch on TV or on a stream. My only choices have been shout box or BBC live commentary. Had to end up on BBC, which isn't ideal, but it's not as wrist slitting and glass empty as the shout box, especially when someone says ffs and I automatically assume the opposition have scored.And, bugger me, it turns out we weren't awful in either game. I'm done with match day shout box.

 

[S40BLADE]

Always feel like we're walking a tightrope when we set up defensively and that it is inherently negative but if the opposition is pure dog shite like Reading i suppose we can get a way with.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

There have been a couple of games recently where I haven't been able to go, couldn't watch on TV or on a stream. My only choices have been shout box or BBC live commentary. Had to end up on BBC, which isn't ideal, but it's not as wrist slitting and glass empty as the shout box, especially when someone says ffs and I automatically assume the opposition have scored.And, bugger me, it turns out we weren't awful in either game. I'm done with match day shout box.

As an indicator of what is actually happening in a game, shoutbox is as useful as a eunuch in a sperm bank.

 

[Gavlar]

I wouldn't call myself a clapper and have been a bit critical in the past, but the shoutbox is degenerating to a whole new level of complete bollocks on match days, especially when we remind ourselves:-

Henderson - Loan
Baldock - Signed from MK Dons (when in L1?)
Stevens - Signed from Portsmouth (when in L2)
O'Connell - Unwanted by Brentford
Basham - Signed from Blackpool
Egan - Deemed surplus by Brentford
Lundstram- Signed from Oxford
Fleck - Signed from Coventry
Duffy - Deemed surplus and not good enough for Burton !
Norwood - Admittedly quality - a steal at £2m
McGoldrick - Deemed surplus by Ipswich
Washington - Deemed surplus by QPR
Sharp - Journeyman striker seemingly past it

Stearman - Deemed surplus by Wolves
Coutts - Deemed surplus by Adkins !!
Moore - Deemed surplus by Cardiff
Crainee - Deemed surplus by Blackburn
Johnson - Deemed surplus by Boro

Think i've got that right, but you get the jist. We sit in 3rd place in a very competetive Championship having invested the square root of fuck all and it's still not good enough for some.

You make some fair points, though I would disagree that all the players mentioned were deemed surplus.

Billy was never past it, he just failed at blades twice before so was a gamble. Duffy was not surplus at Burton he wanted to leave. Fleck was always Covs best player regardless of how bad they were. Egan would be playing for Brentford every week if still there i'm sure. McGoldricks problems have been staying fit. Coutts played for Adkins regularly.

The cost of the squad is pittance though which I completely agree is unbelievable for our league position. On sky last night they said we cost £5 mill and £4 mill was on Egan. We need to invest to have any danger of being promoted.

 

[SwissBlade]

Not one to start a thread on here much but haven't seen it mentioned elsewhere.
The new tactic that was seen at Brentford as well as the first half yesterday may be down to us tiring out in games later on in the season as especially was shown last year. With the somewhat stronger defence than last year is the sitting back tactic to save our legs so we can go full tilt in the second half without the risk of running out of steam. Will be very interesting in my opinion if this tactic is used again at away games as in the first half we never really looked like conceding.

The tactics have been discussed on quite a few threads since last night.

For what its worth though, i felt the tactics yesterday were different to Brentford as we were enticing them out rather than going toe to toe.

Last night was similar to Cloughs cup tactics.

 

[Blend-it-like-Harris]

Billy was never past it, he just failed at blades twice before so was a gamble

The failure was (1) failing to recognise what he brought to the team (even when not scoring goals) and
(2) failing to play to his strengths and attempting to use him as a lone target man.
Any Manager worth his pay-packet would have studied his goals when playing for Scunthorpe and acknowledge that he needed wide-men getting behind defences and feeding him in the last few yards rather than expecting him to pick up the ball 40 yards out facing his own goal and trying to hold off a couple of beef-cake defenders leaning over his shoulder. Too much to ask of knuckle-head managers though I suppose.

 

[Pinchy]

That's why I barely give it time of day. Full of, well..... Is there a word to describe 'em?

Me too. The lunatics are allowed control of the asylum for a few hours. That reminds me, I need to re-stock with crayons.

 

[Silent Blade]

But according to shoutbox we were wank ,shit , lost the plot ,run out of steam ,same as last season ,nge ,wank again ,clueless ,toothless ,and when I protested I became the anti Christ clapper ,it was fucking painful on there yesterday until we scored ,then they all vanished.

I am grateful to Foxy and Linz for providing the Shoutbox which is useful for the likes of me and others who are unable to listen to the radio commentary but it was always hard work reading stupid comments from "Know it alls". This season and last season I have not been on Shoutbox for any of our games because I went to most of the away games (missed 3 last season and 3 so far this season), whenever I missed an away game I would watch livestreaming from a FB group or watch it on Sky red button at a mate's house. I am doubtful about going to Ipswich on the 22nd so I hope I will be able to find a livestreaming link rather than putting up with the idiots on Shoutbox.

 

[Sheffsteel]

The tactics have been discussed on quite a few threads since last night.

For what its worth though, i felt the tactics yesterday were different to Brentford as we were enticing them out rather than going toe to toe.

Last night was similar to Cloughs cup tactics.

In league 1 we were so impressive and looked unstoppable before Christmas, then Fleetwood came along and showed other league 1 clubs the blueprint how to beat us, that’s sit back and park the bus. It was really worrying because we showed signs of struggle.
THE ANSWER: Wilder bought James Hanson, when teams parked the bus we reverted to the Bolton style and lumped it into the box.
Surprisingly the limited Hanson caused havoc in the penalty area with Sharp picking up the knock downs.
It became clear that parking the bus no longer worked when we have big Hanson playing as target man.

Now we’re in the Championship we’ve adjusted well and are starting to consistently dominate matches again.
However this season Birmingham, Stoke and Wednesday have shown that if you defend deep with plenty of numbers then we can attack all day but still struggle to create anything.

This is the conundrum for Chris Wilder, how do we beat teams who park the bus?
We don’t possess any aerial power or physicality in the box (like an Hanson) no one with a trick to commit defenders (like a Brooks).

Our matches have tended to follow a pattern where we start on the front foot and are almost always the better team first half.
Then we fall away slightly and look tired towards the end of the 2nd half.

So maybe Wilder and Knill have changed tactics, to deliberately choose NOT to dominate the 1st half to encourage the opposition to be more positive so they don’t park the bus. We conserve our energy being more defensive first half, then go for it and up the tempo surprising the opposition with our good passing play second half.

 

[Yewsman]

Not one to start a thread on here much but haven't seen it mentioned elsewhere.
The new tactic that was seen at Brentford as well as the first half yesterday may be down to us tiring out in games later on in the season as especially was shown last year. With the somewhat stronger defence than last year is the sitting back tactic to save our legs so we can go full tilt in the second half without the risk of running out of steam. Will be very interesting in my opinion if this tactic is used again at away games as in the first half we never really looked like conceding.

I definitely think we have changed tactics slightly.
At home v Leeds it seemed to me that Norwood was playing a bit higher up the pitch rather than just in front of the back 3. This meant that Egan was taking more responsibility in distributing the ball from the back rather than giving it short to Norwood for him to start the attack. We were also playing slightly more direct by getting the ball forward more quickly.
Against Brentford and in the first half v Reading we sat back and tried to hit them on the break using Washy’s pace.
I think that this change has been brought about by the fact that when we dominated possession (as we have tended to do in most matches this season and last even when we have lost) but have been too slow getting the ball forward allowing teams to get back and rely on the fact that by the time we get into their penalty area or a place where we can cross the whole defence is there and in place and we have been unable to break teams down.
Anyone else noticed this or is it my imagination?

 

[Captain]

Tactics at Reading a master stroke by Chris, average first half gave up possession but for an eagle eyed Lino could have been 2-0 up, saw they were there for the taking, Duffy coming in was the game changer.
WBA revert to plan A

 

[Houston_Blade]

I am grateful to Foxy and Linz for providing the Shoutbox which is useful for the likes of me and others who are unable to listen to the radio commentary but it was always hard work reading stupid comments from "Know it alls". This season and last season I have not been on Shoutbox for any of our games because I went to most of the away games (missed 3 last season and 3 so far this season), whenever I missed an away game I would watch livestreaming from a FB group or watch it on Sky red button at a mate's house. I am doubtful about going to Ipswich on the 22nd so I hope I will be able to find a livestreaming link rather than putting up with the idiots on Shoutbox.

I tend to use shoutbox during the game as I generally watch the games alone. The comments in the first half weren't too bad on Saturday, I was on the phone for most of the 2nd half and it sounds like it went a little bit suicidal. I do think a lot of people use it to be negative in the hope that the opposite happens on the pitch in a weird reverse psychological way so I don't read too much into most of the comments.

 

[SwissBlade]

In league 1 we were so impressive and looked unstoppable before Christmas, then Fleetwood came along and showed other league 1 clubs the blueprint how to beat us, that’s sit back and park the bus. It was really worrying because we showed signs of struggle.
THE ANSWER: Wilder bought James Hanson, when teams parked the bus we reverted to the Bolton style and lumped it into the box.
Surprisingly the limited Hanson caused havoc in the penalty area with Sharp picking up the knock downs.
It became clear that parking the bus no longer worked when we have big Hanson playing as target man.

Now we’re in the Championship we’ve adjusted well and are starting to consistently dominate matches again.
However this season Birmingham, Stoke and Wednesday have shown that if you defend deep with plenty of numbers then we can attack all day but still struggle to create anything.

This is the conundrum for Chris Wilder, how do we beat teams who park the bus?
We don’t possess any aerial power or physicality in the box (like an Hanson) no one with a trick to commit defenders (like a Brooks).

Our matches have tended to follow a pattern where we start on the front foot and are almost always the better team first half.
Then we fall away slightly and look tired towards the end of the 2nd half.

So maybe Wilder and Knill have changed tactics, to deliberately choose NOT to dominate the 1st half to encourage the opposition to be more positive so they don’t park the bus. We conserve our energy being more defensive first half, then go for it and up the tempo surprising the opposition with our good passing play second half.

You're right about how we dealt with it in League one.

Interestingly, when you look at the Stoke and Wednesday games (i didn't see Birmingham, so can't comment), if we'd taken chances v Stoke and scored the penalty against Wednesday, their game plans would've disappeared completely.

I really think that whilst Reading were weak (in my opinion) and they were perhaps unlikely to stop us if they parked the bus, but it was a good game to trial a new tactic, sit back, give them the ball and entice them out.

I guess the test for the new tactic would be against a Bus Parking side at home, once you realise 15-20 mins into a game, are we able to sit back and entice them on, would our fans accept it at home if we allowed the opposition the ball? Perhaps Forest could be a good test, another side we failed to breakdown or get in behind with any success.

 

[finlaytheblade]

You're right about how we dealt with it in League one.

Interestingly, when you look at the Stoke and Wednesday games (i didn't see Birmingham, so can't comment), if we'd taken chances v Stoke and scored the penalty against Wednesday, their game plans would've disappeared completely.

I really think that whilst Reading were weak (in my opinion) and they were perhaps unlikely to stop us if they parked the bus, but it was a good game to trial a new tactic, sit back, give them the ball and entice them out.

I guess the test for the new tactic would be against a Bus Parking side at home, once you realise 15-20 mins into a game, are we able to sit back and entice them on, would our fans accept it at home if we allowed the opposition the ball? Perhaps Forest could be a good test, another side we failed to breakdown or get in behind with any success.

Not really possible to park the bus as the home team,the fans demand attacking play.
Playing a team who are from an higher division will possibly give more skope to do this but in general fans from most teams demand there team ( home team ) have a go

 

[SwissBlade]

Not really possible to park the bus as the home team,the fans demand attacking play.
Playing a team who are from an higher division will possibly give more skope to do this but in general fans from most teams demand there team ( home team ) have a go

Not saying that we park the bus, but the approach we take against sides that come to the lane would be to sit back and wait for them to come up, adopting a higher defensive line.

I mentioned earlier that the approach at Reading reminded me of the Clough Cup Tactic, against the likes of Forest at home it was accepted as a good counter attacking set up, but against someone like Wallsall or Fleetwood at home the crowd would've said that it was too negative.

The end result could be the same, but we're expected to drive forward from min 1 to 90 at home in the league