Loyalty Points debate

[coaxingstar71]

This has probably been done to death but I thought I'd dig up the corpse once more for an airing....

You'll see from the linked thread that TomSUFC25 is asking to use someone else's loyalty points so he can go to the Forest game. What's everyone's thought on this?

https://www.s24su.com/forum/index.php?threads/forest-away.66783/#post-1828600

Here's mine if anyone is interested...

I admit, I'm going to the Forest game as a mate who I work with knows quite a few fans with well over 40,000 points. They don't go to all the away games and are quite happy for them to be 'pooled' to be used by others. The advantage for them being that it increases their own loyalty points even though they can't attend.

This is my fifth consecutive season as a ST holder, I can only get to a handful of away games, but otherwise I'd still have no chance of going to the Forest game if I used my own loyalty points which are still less than 20,000.

I know this is considered 'unethical' but what chance do fans like me have of going to away games as the loyalty points system is effectively a case of 'the rich getting richer....'

I think the club should have a re-think as soon you'll be needing 70,000 points to have any chance of going to an away game, especially as those with the points are making sure their points keep getting topped up.

I should point out that wherever possible, I try to use my own points as I did for the Blackburn game. I even waited until they went on General sale so I could get one for my mate from Wigan. I also try to go to games that aren't going to be so popular so I went down to QPR midweek last season. Even so, this isn't going to boost my loyalty points to the point where I can always get a ticket.

Anyway, I hope TomSUFC25 got sorted. We should encourage as many fans as possible to go to support the team.

 

[jt64]

It only becomes an issue when supply exceeds demand, as it has done for Forest. Unless you're going to get the away club to police who's using a ticket (unlikely) then you're never going to prevent people who have enough points to buy any ticket they want regardless of whether they want to use them.

It's a bit silly for the guy you reference to ask to queue jump for this game given that next to nobody will not be using their points for themselves, but that's a different issue

 

[Westran]

I agree to an extent and I'm in the exact same position as you. I try to get away games but the ones I can generally make are usually sold out, it's difficult to build up points (other than over time), if the only away matches I can get tickets for are midweek, miles away, or where we heppen to get a decent allocation.

I'm against the idea of people using their loyalty points to get others tickets in principle, as it stops those with a lower amount of loyalty points getting tickets. But I will admit to getting tickets in the same way, juyst because I really want to go to games whenever I can, in the same way as I got tickets in the home end at MK Dons.

I do think the loyalty point system is flawed, but I'm not sure there is a fairer way of doing it that wouldn't cause a massive ballache to administer.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Yes, discussed only last week.....

https://www.s24su.com/forum/index.php?threads/loyalty-points.56855/

 

[Selly]

As someone with <1000 points I have zero dog in this fight.

Firstly - by getting others to give you their numbers people are making the situation worse - I appreciate that this is down to the system that is in place but it's still true
Secondly - whilst the aim should be to reward loyalty, it should not be at the expense of making this a closed shop - to do so merely re-enforces and encourages the behaviour in point 1
Thirdly - and this is something I said when they brought these in - there has to be some way for points to be "used up". Either through a time limit (only the last 5 years points count?) or, and as well as earning points for loyalty, you also have to "spend" your points to attend some of the games - in this way perhaps the "same" 2000 people don`t get to go to every high demand away game. Maybe having to spend 3000 of your points would cause some of the fans with circa 40,000 points to give the game a miss, knowing they would also need 40,000 for a away ticket to the Sty?

This is a situation which will only become worse if we get promoted - the loyalty system was brought in around the last time we were in the PL (or the season after) - it surely isn`t correct that someone with a ST for 5 years, who stopped having that ST 5 years ago is afforded the same "loyalty" as someone with 5 ST in the last 5 years - recency has to play a part, but also ensuring that it isn`t a closed shop for an entire season?

 

[Foxy]

I think the club should have a re-think as soon you'll be needing 70,000 points to have any chance of going to an away game, especially as those with the points are making sure their points keep getting topped up.

On the flip side, all my points are from my own usage only...

But then I'm losing out on first or early dibs to make it 'fairer' to those who have fewer. Sounds fair.

Lowering the bar simply creates more people on the same level and therefore back to the queuing out overnight.

In an ideal world, they'd need proof a customer wasn't giving out their number for others to use and keep their points topped up, but it's incredibly difficult to police that and maintain convenience for the buyer.

This argument always comes up during a run of bigger games, or around the time of a derby day.

Nobody ever raises it for some shit hole away on a Tuesday night.

I've also have a foot in both camps, as I have an infant daughter with minimal points (sadly you don't get them for U18 away friendlies )

 

[coaxingstar71]

As someone with <1000 points I have zero dog in this fight.

Firstly - by getting others to give you their numbers people are making the situation worse - I appreciate that this is down to the system that is in place but it's still true
Secondly - whilst the aim should be to reward loyalty, it should not be at the expense of making this a closed shop - to do so merely re-enforces and encourages the behaviour in point 1
Thirdly - and this is something I said when they brought these in - there has to be some way for points to be "used up". Either through a time limit (only the last 5 years points count?) or, and as well as earning points for loyalty, you also have to "spend" your points to attend some of the games - in this way perhaps the "same" 2000 people don`t get to go to every high demand away game. Maybe having to spend 3000 of your points would cause some of the fans with circa 40,000 points to give the game a miss, knowing they would also need 40,000 for a away ticket to the Sty?

This is a situation which will only become worse if we get promoted - the loyalty system was brought in around the last time we were in the PL (or the season after) - it surely isn`t correct that someone with a ST for 5 years, who stopped having that ST 5 years ago is afforded the same "loyalty" as someone with 5 ST in the last 5 years - recency has to play a part, but also ensuring that it isn`t a closed shop for an entire season?

Don't you lose your loyalty points if you stop getting your ST? I'm sure I know of people who get a ST just to keep the points even though they might only go to a handful of games, therefore ensuring they'll still get one for big games.

 

[coaxingstar71]

On the flip side, all my points are from my own usage only...

But then I'm losing out on first or early dibs to make it 'fairer' to those who have fewer. Sounds fair.

Lowering the bar simply creates more people on the same level and therefore back to the queuing out overnight.

In an ideal world, they'd need proof a customer wasn't giving out their number for others to use and keep their points topped up, but it's incredibly difficult to police that and maintain convenience for the buyer.

This argument always comes up during a run of bigger games, or around the time of a derby day.

Nobody ever raises it for some shit hole away on a Tuesday night.

I've also have a foot in both camps, as I have an infant daughter with minimal points (sadly you don't get them for U18 away friendlies )

You are indeed the example we should all follow Foxy !

In these times of the tinternet, perhaps we should follow the example of trying to get tickets for Radiohead where you have to state the names of those attending and provide ID when you get there....... maybe not.

Anyway, I didn't know we were playing at Hillsborough on a Tuesday night?

 

[Lmaobob]

> Doesn't have enough loyalty points to buy tickets to a match

> Uses someone else's loyalty points to buy tickets to a match

> Person who isn't attending match receives loyalty points and obtain a bigger gap from others who are not attending the match/borrowing points from someone else

It's the most fair way I can think of but it doesn't really help when you have to borrow points from someone else but they still get awarded for it

 

[SteveBlade]

Don't you lose your loyalty points if you stop getting your ST? I'm sure I know of people who get a ST just to keep the points even though they might only go to a handful of games, therefore ensuring they'll still get one for big games.

I don't think you lose your points.

When did the loyalty point system get put into place? When I first started going to away games as a 14/15 year old I had virtually no problem getting tickets for Wednesday away, Barnsley, Derby etc, games that wouldn't get to general sale now.

The mates I went with had only just started going too, and I could walk in and get tickets for all of us. This was in 2008 or so.

Ten years later, and a couple of dozen thousand loyalty points later and I can't get tickets to these games for myself, nevermind anyone else without resorting to shenanigans.

 

[Northyorksblade]

I sometimes let friends have my number if I am not going to a game, purely to help a friend out. It's not to gain loyalty points. Perhaps there could be a system where you lend someone your number but don't get any loyalty points for it. Or isn't that the point?

 

[LoughboroBlade]

I don't think you lose your points.

When did the loyalty point system get put into place? When I first started going to away games as a 14/15 year old I had virtually no problem getting tickets for Wednesday away, Barnsley, Derby etc, games that wouldn't get to general sale now.

The mates I went with had only just started going too, and I could walk in and get tickets for all of us. This was in 2008 or so.

Ten years later, and a couple of dozen thousand loyalty points later and I can't get tickets to these games for myself, nevermind anyone else without resorting to shenanigans.

It started in the Premier League season when demand for tickets was understandably higher. It probably made sense at the time, but the longer it continues unchanged the greater the issues.

You don’t lose points for not renewing your season ticket. About 75% of mine are from the first 3 years of the scheme when I had a season ticket.

 

[ShockingBadBuy]

This argument always comes up during a run of bigger games, or around the time of a derby day.

Nobody ever raises it for some shit hole away on a Tuesday night.

Indeed. Well put.

 

[bartman]

This has probably been done to death but I thought I'd dig up the corpse once more for an airing....

You'll see from the linked thread that TomSUFC25 is asking to use someone else's loyalty points so he can go to the Forest game. What's everyone's thought on this?

https://www.s24su.com/forum/index.php?threads/forest-away.66783/#post-1828600

Here's mine if anyone is interested...

I admit, I'm going to the Forest game as a mate who I work with knows quite a few fans with well over 40,000 points. They don't go to all the away games and are quite happy for them to be 'pooled' to be used by others. The advantage for them being that it increases their own loyalty points even though they can't attend.

This is my fifth consecutive season as a ST holder, I can only get to a handful of away games, but otherwise I'd still have no chance of going to the Forest game if I used my own loyalty points which are still less than 20,000.

I know this is considered 'unethical' but what chance do fans like me have of going to away games as the loyalty points system is effectively a case of 'the rich getting richer....'

I think the club should have a re-think as soon you'll be needing 70,000 points to have any chance of going to an away game, especially as those with the points are making sure their points keep getting topped up.

I should point out that wherever possible, I try to use my own points as I did for the Blackburn game. I even waited until they went on General sale so I could get one for my mate from Wigan. I also try to go to games that aren't going to be so popular so I went down to QPR midweek last season. Even so, this isn't going to boost my loyalty points to the point where I can always get a ticket.

Anyway, I hope TomSUFC25 got sorted. We should encourage as many fans as possible to go to support the team.

Derby and Forest are the first two away games to sell my this season. Plenty of other away games for fans to catch up plus the home games in the cups.

Quite rightly those with the highest points get first choice on the high profile games

It's not perfect but I've not seen anyone suggest a better system yet ( apart from maybe a cut off of 10 years for the points)

 

[coaxingstar71]

Derby and Forest are the first two away games to sell my this season. Plenty of other away games for fans to catch up plus the home games in the cups.

Quite rightly those with the highest points get first choice on the high profile games

It's not perfect but I've not seen anyone suggest a better system yet ( apart from maybe a cut off of 10 years for the points)

I think you're right, however I think the problem is that while those on the higher points keep accumulating, the rest of us will never be able to catch up to the point where we can use our own points for those games.

I think a rolling 5-10 years would actually be a very good idea, certainly better than the current system.

I also propose that anyone who attended Bury away during the Madkins reign should automatically be awarded 50,000 points for that game alone!

 

[boo radley]

Bought a membership this year so that I could get an extra ticket for my son for the home game against wendy. Surprised that the number of points required was only 500. About 26000 points on that membership.

 

[Ricky]

Forest will be the only game this season that hasn't got to general sale. Just as it was this time last season. Even Leeds away went to general sale.

Anybody can get to at least 80% of away matches.

But the club should be able to do something that gives the more recent (often younger) regulars a chance of getting tickets for high demand games.

 

[Blade82]

I think they should drop the membership or current ST rule to use previous loyalty points.

I have approx 40k points but this season I never bothered with a ST because I’m due to have major surgery which keeps getting pushed back. But I have to pay for a membership just to have the privilege of using my points I’ve picked up away to Carlisle, Hartlepool, Crewe, Yeovil etc over the past few years. Doesn’t seem to be a fair way but I imagine the club makes money from this way of doing it which is why it’s in place.

Aside from that gripe (because of my current situation) it is the only way to do it. You just have to get your head down, use your points when possible (which you can do with 95% of games) & you soon move through the categories.

 

[Blade82]

Don't you lose your loyalty points if you stop getting your ST? I'm sure I know of people who get a ST just to keep the points even though they might only go to a handful of games, therefore ensuring they'll still get one for big games.

You don’t lose them but you need a membership to be able to use them. Other than that once you renew/return ST you’re able to use again.

You can even gain loyalty points with no ST or Membership but you just can’t use them.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Forest will be the only game this season that hasn't got to general sale. Just as it was this time last season. Even Leeds away went to general sale.

Anybody can get to at least 80% of away matches.

But the club should be able to do something that gives the more recent (often younger) regulars a chance of getting tickets for high demand games.

Therein lies the real problem. Younger regulars home and away not able to catch up.

People buying ST's and travelling away every season since the system was introduced shouldn't be penalised and it's the ones who stopped going who generally moan. IF the system needs an overhaul that's where it needs to be looked at. Not across the board.

As Foxy says, always happens when the Pigs are due.

 

[Kenilworth]

Introduce safe standing at grounds and you'll get more people in.

Simple solution.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Introduce safe standing at grounds and you'll get more people in.

Simple solution.

It won't stop the issue of people with hardly any points wanting tickets for certain away games or the Pigs at home. If the demand truly was there, we'd sell out mostxaway games.

 

[Kenilworth]

It won't stop the issue of people with hardly any points wanting tickets for certain away games or the Pigs at home. If the demand truly was there, we'd sell out mostxaway games.

4,500 as opposed to 2,000 seats still allows more people to have a chance, though.

 

[Addison]

23 away games this season and only 3, Pigs, Florist and Toy Town will cause problems, possibly Stoke at the end of the season if we have a chance of going up. Away followings this season to date has been down in numbers compared to last season so far. So potentially 18/19 games at least where away tickets are likely to go to general sale.

Season ticket holders who purchase year on year should not be penalised by any changes to the points system they are the lifeblood of the Club in terms of incoming revenue, they deserve priority over others.

The issue is points being kept for those who stop purchasing season tickets enabling them to be still relatively high up the queue when limited ticket allocations become available. One option may be to suspend the points accrued for purchasing past season tickets until the supporter buys one again in the future. That allows some points to continue to be used but reduces the status on the points system. Problem is that would mean having to reconfigure the IT system and the Blades have a history of problems here.

As others have said we had the same moans and grumbles last year when we played the Pigs and Florist away due to the piss poor allocations. As it affects such a small percentage of the total away games its unlikely to be top of the to do list down at BDTBL at the moment.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I think you're right, however I think the problem is that while those on the higher points keep accumulating, the rest of us will never be able to catch up to the point where we can use our own points for those games.

I think a rolling 5-10 years would actually be a very good idea, certainly better than the current system.

I also propose that anyone who attended Bury away during the Madkins reign should automatically be awarded 50,000 points for that game alone!

If someone had a season ticket for the first three years for example and none since, start reducing those first.

Give more points for the harder to get too, away matches and therefore generally more expensive games.

The current system if fine for the absolute regulars home and away and I don't see why after being loyal year after year they should but subject to having points withdrawn. As I've said, the younger fans who do attend home and away - all away fans in fact - should be given a decent amount of points for attending, rather than putting fans who only want tickets for the obvious games a leg up.

 

[mattbianco1]

I'm not gonna Forest. Wish i'd seen the original thread, could've added to my loyalty points. #maketherichricher

 

[Sean Thornton]

4,500 as opposed to 2,000 seats still allows more people to have a chance, though.

For the majority of our away games this season, the away end would be more than half empty.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Here's an idea. Be caught lending your points, get a points reduction. That'll help.....

 

[I should coco]

Introduce safe standing at grounds and you'll get more people in.

4,500 as opposed to 2,000 seats still allows more people to have a chance, though.

I don't think you understand what 'safe standing' is. It is not a return to terraces.

For a standing match, the rail seats are simply paddlocked back out of use, so that everyone stands. Then for games where seating is needed (eg UEFA competitions etc) the seats are unlocked.

Safe standing as it exists in Germany effectively replaces one seat with one large 'safe' standing area. There would be NO increase in capacity.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Here's an idea. Be caught lending your points, get a points reduction. That'll help.....

A points deduction simply wouldn’t be fair on the fans. How about a £10 fine?

Cheers,

The Premier League, 2007