The dismantling of Sheffield United

[Sean Thornton]

Good question mate.

I think, at some point, Chris won’t have any option but to have a player, or players, on lots more money than the others. He hasn’t come to terms with that idea yet, but at some stage he will have to if he wants to take this club forward.

Look back to when he came in 2 years ago. What did he say? I’ll tell you ad verbatim:

He said: “ The days of Sheffield United spending big money on players has gone”.

Which is one of the strangest things I ever heard from a United manager’s mouth! “Big money signings?” Who exactly? I can only think of one... Beattie, in the past 40 years. And that was peanuts by today’s standards.

This statement was maybe meant to appease his new bosses? I don’t know? But it was bullshit, although coming from Wilder, a man who I trust not to bullshit us, it was just downright strange!

I think, more than anything, it tells a tale about how Wilder thinks you can compete without spending big money. You can to a certain extent, but not for long, not at this level.

In his own mind Chris probably feels he’s pushed the boat out this summer on signings. He probably feels we can’t or shouldn’t spend any more on wages than what we have done already.

But times have moved on. I don’t agree with it or like it for one minute, but we cannot get out of this division in an upward direction unless we are going to pay the going rate to attract top players.

I’m not sure Wilder has reached that conclusion yet, but he will have to eventually. Just like he’s had to change his mind about “big money signings”.

Maybe Wilder grasps the fact that we don't have the funds to sign "big money players". Even at this level. There's quite a few on here can't grasp it.

How can you pay "the going rate" if the going rate is more than you can afford?

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

No! This is Foxy's job! Did you learn nothing in the last year?

Yeah, but if we leave it to him to write it, we'll be waiting too long....

 

[sufcboy95]

Fuck me we’ve lost 1 game

 

[ShockingBadBuy]

Yeah, but if we leave it to him to write it, we'll be waiting too long....

Waiting forever, mate ...

 

[snootyfenooty]

Maybe Wilder grasps the fact that we don't have the funds to sign "big money players". Even at this level. There's quite a few on here can't grasp it.

How can you pay "the going rate" if the going rate is more than you can afford?

Yeah but the same one's who can't grasp that also can't grasp that L1 is our natural level because that's where you're categorising us.

 

[Davalon]

FC United of Sheffield is the only way forward I'm afraid.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Yeah but the same one's who can't grasp that also can't grasp that L1 is our natural level because that's where you're categorising us.

I'm categorising us as a league one side? Where? You're making stuff up again. The financial facts have nothing to do where we should be. Otherwise we'd still be in L1. You're unable to accept that the money isn't there and isn't going to be there as things stand. Wishing for a beanstalk won't change that. This squad isn't good enough to get promotion. We all know that, but you can't spend what you haven't got. That doesn't categorise us, it's just unpalatable facts.

The facts are the owners are in a court battle. Both will want to put in nothing more if they can manage it. Therefore the Brooks money will go some way to cover this seasons losses. Despite all the hyperbole and guesswork on here, no one knows what's left for Wilder to spend. But expecting to compete with parachute payments and billionaire owners whilst suggesting we need better is ridiculous.

The comments bout selling were relevant to strengthening the team overall, because we aren't going too far with the current squad. Then it comes down to scouting, which hasn't been that good in this league.

 

[Harrisblade]

Good question mate.

I think, at some point, Chris won’t have any option but to have a player, or players, on lots more money than the others. He hasn’t come to terms with that idea yet, but at some stage he will have to if he wants to take this club forward.

Look back to when he came in 2 years ago. What did he say? I’ll tell you ad verbatim:

He said: “ The days of Sheffield United spending big money on players has gone”.

Which is one of the strangest things I ever heard from a United manager’s mouth! “Big money signings?” Who exactly? I can only think of one... Beattie, in the past 40 years. And that was peanuts by today’s standards.

This statement was maybe meant to appease his new bosses? I don’t know? But it was bullshit, although coming from Wilder, a man who I trust not to bullshit us, it was just downright strange!

I think, more than anything, it tells a tale about how Wilder thinks you can compete without spending big money. You can to a certain extent, but not for long, not at this level.

In his own mind Chris probably feels he’s pushed the boat out this summer on signings. He probably feels we can’t or shouldn’t spend any more on wages than what we have done already.

But times have moved on. I don’t agree with it or like it for one minute, but we cannot get out of this division in an upward direction unless we are going to pay the going rate to attract top players.

I’m not sure Wilder has reached that conclusion yet, but he will have to eventually. Just like he’s had to change his mind about “big money signings”.

Bryan Robson knew all about big money signings but still didn't spend big money on transfer fees

 

[Sean Thornton]

FC United of Sheffield is the only way forward I'm afraid.

Playing where?

 

[Davalon]

Playing where?

There's a half decent 3G pitch down Fir Vale with room for a stand down one side.

 

[Nick Jansky]

I think that CW is aiming to do it in the way that Dyche managed it at Burnley. An alternative is to look at how Huddersfield achieved it, making good use of the loan market (Mooey etc) coupled with exploiting the huge value that is still available from overseas. It’s disingenuous to talk about the cost of Brentford’s 150 staff in a London office as a reason for not doing it, other clubs pick up gems for a much lower level of scouting investment. Leeds being a good example.

 

[snootyfenooty]

I'm categorising us as a league one side? Where? You're making stuff up again. The financial facts have nothing to do where we should be. Otherwise we'd still be in L1. You're unable to accept that the money isn't there and isn't going to be there as things stand. Wishing for a beanstalk won't change that. This squad isn't good enough to get promotion. We all know that, but you can't spend what you haven't got. That doesn't categorise us, it's just unpalatable facts.

The facts are the owners are in a court battle. Both will want to put in nothing more if they can manage it. Therefore the Brooks money will go some way to cover this seasons losses. Despite all the hyperbole and guesswork on here, no one knows what's left for Wilder to spend. But expecting to compete with parachute payments and billionaire owners whilst suggesting we need better is ridiculous.

The comments bout selling were relevant to strengthening the team overall, because we aren't going too far with the current squad. Then it comes down to scouting, which hasn't been that good in this league.

So you're suggesting that the wealth of the owners will determine the league positions this year? Nonsense, I'll bet you a pound to a penny that there are several clubs who are "poorer" than us who will finish above us this year.

 

[FriethBlade]

Maybe Wilder grasps the fact that we don't have the funds to sign "big money players". Even at this level. There's quite a few on here can't grasp it.

How can you pay "the going rate" if the going rate is more than you can afford?

By getting an owner who can afford it...like a multitude of clubs have but we seem incapable of doing. It's pitiful that we look up to sides like Bournemoith, Brighton, Leicester, Swansea et al and say how can we compete with them. How did they get there in the first place and what are the odds of us getting there under our financial straight jacket.

Even the clubs that look like they are going bust like Villa, Leeds etc seem to find new owners who then invest.

In the meantime we are supposed to think ourselves lucky that we at owned by a Blade!!

We were promised an improved budget and we got 12m for Brooks and we are already talking loan windows and soon it will be talking January. Same old same old under the same old owner

And it's not an agenda it's a longing to see us being able to compete at a level we have every right to compete at.

 

[super_pig]

We've had one game and we're already tearing up the squad and starting again.

Bonky madness

been coming a while though .. the off season stopped a meltdown earlier tbf

 

[super_pig]

Playing where?

graves park of course

 

[Redflame]

Dear oh Dear oh Dear hear we go again 1 game in UTB

 

[Rodley]

I think that CW is aiming to do it in the way that Dyche managed it at Burnley. An alternative is to look at how Huddersfield achieved it, making good use of the loan market (Mooey etc) coupled with exploiting the huge value that is still available from overseas. It’s disingenuous to talk about the cost of Brentford’s 150 staff in a London office as a reason for not doing it, other clubs pick up gems for a much lower level of scouting investment. Leeds being a good example.

Leeds are a good example of signing huge numbers of shite foreigners in the last few seasons. Hit rate of about 5%.

 

[Nick Jansky]

Leeds are a good example of signing huge numbers of shite foreigners in the last few seasons. Hit rate of about 5%.

Much better than 5% I’d say, and our hit rate is possibly not a lot better.

 

[Rodley]

Much better than 5% I’d say, and our hit rate is possibly not a lot better.

Can’t agree. Saiz is patchy in form and a tosser - where are the other gems then?



Let’s see how they get on this year after signing 6 British players. Got the right idea has Bielsa.

 

[GrayBlade]

Every team goes through a cycle where they grow and build and achieve then stagnate and struggle before they are ready to step up again.

How long you stay in any one of those phases depends on how well the team is managed through it.

I felt United, last season, had it all going for them and with a bit more backing could have pushed onto the next level. But without it would run out of steam this season and be on the decline. Ageing strike force, makeshift midfielders, defenders who are supposed to be attackers? No sorry, not for me! Defenders occasionally getting forward yes! Absolutely. Main attackers being defenders? No thanks. Get some money spent on proper strikers you tight gets!

That chicken is coming home to roost. Sharp can’t even get in the team. League 2 players like Lundstram are keeping Duffy out of the starting 11, and we can’t afford to compete at this level for strikers!

Maybe the answer IS to sell O’Connell for £8m to free up some cash? But then there’ll be a revolt over the incoming players wages if we use that to sign a striker.

I think this season will be all about dismantling the current squad and planning for an assault next season.

Interesting points but haven’t we already sold Brooks and freed up some cash?

Nothing will really change until the ownership issues are resolved and our true financi clout is clear. Meanwhile, we need to try and keep the players that we can build into a good team around because as it is right now we’ll see little or no benefit on the playing side from their sale. Just a slow degradation of the squad, and we’ve been down that road before for year after year until Wilder arrived.

 

[Nick Jansky]

Can’t agree. Saiz is patchy in form and a tosser - where are the other gems then?

View attachment 42670

Let’s see how they get on this year after signing 6 British players. Got the right idea has Bielsa.

Would have been happy with the likes of Saiz, Alioski, Klich, Jansson, Berardi in our squad. All very decent.

 

[robbiez666]

If you want to look at what a healthy scouting system can give you, Brentford are a much better model:

https://www.transfermarkt.com/fc-brentford/alletransfers/verein/1148

Sure, they make mistakes and players don't work out, but they make enough back to cover themselves.

 

[Sean Thornton]

So you're suggesting that the wealth of the owners will determine the league positions this year? Nonsense, I'll bet you a pound to a penny that there are several clubs who are "poorer" than us who will finish above us this year.

Read this slowly and don't type an answer before you've finished.

We can't spend what we haven't got. If we haven't got it, and the going rate is too much, what can we do?

Now if you go back to my earlier post, it actually says the opposite of what you've said l suggested.

"Where? You're making stuff up again. The financial facts have nothing to do where we should be. Otherwise we'd still be in L1."

Clear?

 

[Sean Thornton]

By getting an owner who can afford it...like a multitude of clubs have but we seem incapable of doing. It's pitiful that we look up to sides like Bournemoith, Brighton, Leicester, Swansea et al and say how can we compete with them. How did they get there in the first place and what are the odds of us getting there under our financial straight jacket.

Even the clubs that look like they are going bust like Villa, Leeds etc seem to find new owners who then invest.

In the meantime we are supposed to think ourselves lucky that we at owned by a Blade!!

We were promised an improved budget and we got 12m for Brooks and we are already talking loan windows and soon it will be talking January. Same old same old under the same old owner

And it's not an agenda it's a longing to see us being able to compete at a level we have every right to compete at.

But the billionaire owners don't want us it seems. (Let's not go into greedy McCabe etc) and there are plenty of other clubs who haven't received similar investment. I'm not arrogant enough to deny the first four clubs you mention their place in the PL. Regardless of overspend etc, they got the points to go up. This fucking size thing, we get more like the Pigs every day.

The two clubs you mentioned in our league are bigger than us andcan point to more recent successes.

The right to compete at the top is earned by getting there. Nothing more, nothing less. A succession of owners down the years who have failed miserably doesn't change that.

That's nothing to do with accepting mediocrity either, it's accepting where we are NOW, the issues that position brings and not fantasising over some sense of entitlement because of good gates and a good stadium.

I didnt mention being owned by a Blade. There's an agenda right there.

 

[Newbury Blade]

By getting an owner who can afford it...like a multitude of clubs have but we seem incapable of doing. It's pitiful that we look up to sides like Bournemoith, Brighton, Leicester, Swansea et al and say how can we compete with them. How did they get there in the first place and what are the odds of us getting there under our financial straight jacket.

Even the clubs that look like they are going bust like Villa, Leeds etc seem to find new owners who then invest.

In the meantime we are supposed to think ourselves lucky that we at owned by a Blade!!

We were promised an improved budget and we got 12m for Brooks and we are already talking loan windows and soon it will be talking January. Same old same old under the same old owner

And it's not an agenda it's a longing to see us being able to compete at a level we have every right to compete at.

Congratulations. The first “same old same old” of the season! Same old, same old bollocks.

 

[Keen Blade]

Bruce Tuckman's, innit.

That's even better than Bergen's analysis of our defence on Saturday

 

[snootyfenooty]

Read this slowly and don't type an answer before you've finished.

We can't spend what we haven't got. If we haven't got it, and the going rate is too much, what can we do?

Now if you go back to my earlier post, it actually says the opposite of what you've said l suggested.

"Where? You're making stuff up again. The financial facts have nothing to do where we should be. Otherwise we'd still be in L1."

Clear?

Not clear. No need to be so patronising either. Its as if you're saying we're the only club in the country who are subject to financial constraints and because of this we are unable to harbour any ambition. You've only got to look 5 miles east or 10 miles north to see a club who's recent history is better than ours with a fraction of our budget. I think the outlook of the chairman my have something to do with it, someone who spends what is available more wisely and has more competence in running a football club.

 

[Sean Thornton]

It's just "throw

Not clear. No need to be so patronising either. Its as if you're saying we're the only club in thg either. Its as if you're saying we're the only club in the country 5 miles east or 10 miles north to see a club who's recent history is better than ours with a fraction of our budget. I think the outlook of the chairman my have something to do with it, someone who spends what is available more wisely and has more competence in running a football club.

" Its as if you're saying we're the only club in the country who are subject to financial constraints and because of this we are unable to harbour any ambition"



I give up. I've not suggested that either.

 

[BigBed]

WERE DOOMED I TELL THEE, DOOMED!!

 

[ScoobBlade]

Maybe Wilder grasps the fact that we don't have the funds to sign "big money players". Even at this level. There's quite a few on here can't grasp it.

How can you pay "the going rate" if the going rate is more than you can afford?

That ultimately sums our situation up, when you look at what some clubs in this division has spent this summer I think a top half finish would be an excellent if unexciting achievement. I some of these clubs fail to reach the promised land ( I’m thinking forest ) then they could be in a world of financial shit, again