Looking abroad (nonidea if he’s any cop

[mancunianblade]

Any chance we can not look abroad now.

We are clearly in the market for a forward in that £4m+ bracket we could get so much more for our money from the continent.

I know the people who use the term “resale value” are the same ones who are irate when we actually resell. But for what I’m certain will be our record transfer be great to also get someone who we can get a profit out of should too. I wouldn’t mind Waghorn but the likes of Nugent just seem like Wendy signings.

 

[Blade56]

Old Van Winkle should be bring a few forward. What's his job?

 

[Houso]

Any chance we can not look abroad now.

We are clearly in the market for a forward in that £4m+ bracket we could get so much more for our money from the continent.

I know the people who use the term “resale value” are the same ones who are irate when we actually resell. But for what I’m certain will be our record transfer be great to also get someone who we can get a profit out of should too. I wouldn’t mind Waghorn but the likes of Nugent just seem like Wendy signings.

I'd argue it's more of a risk buying from other leagues too. So many players perform well in other countries then come over here and are dogshit. Indeed, I can think of a couple of examples we've had in the past.

Obviously, you can occasionally find an absolute pearler, but it's not like they're so much cheaper these days like they were in the past. For instance, Bristol signed Diédhiou for over 5million and despite him playing the majority of the season, he still scored less than Clarke and Waghorn, and scored the same as Billy.

There was an element of excitement when we brought in the likes of Nade, Suffo and Shelton, but they didn't exactly turn out spectacularly.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

I'd argue it's more of a risk buying from other leagues too. So many players perform well in other countries then come over here and are dogshit. Indeed, I can think of a couple of examples we've had in the past.

Obviously, you can occasionally find an absolute pearler, but it's not like they're so much cheaper these days like they were in the past. For instance, Bristol signed Diédhiou for over 5million and despite him playing the majority of the season, he still scored less than Clarke and Waghorn, and scored the same as Billy.

There was an element of excitement when we brought in the likes of Nade, Suffo and Shelton, but they didn't exactly turn out spectacularly.

Suffo was a decent forward let down by a moment of stupidity.
Marcelo, Katchuro (first season), Fjortoft a few I remember that performed for us.

 

[Lmaobob]

Sign some Congolese kid for £1,000 who can do 100m in 8 seconds flat and who is built like Yaya Toure

 

[Houso]

Suffo was a decent forward let down by a moment of stupidity.
Marcelo, Katchuro (first season), Fjortoft a few I remember that performed for us.

Jan Aage had a relatively long history in England by the time he came to us.

I have soft spots for both Marcelo and the Kat, but they both outperformed by domestic strikers I believe. I actually rated Suffo, Nade and Shelton; each had moments for us. The latter in that first match against Man U was utterly unplayable.

Regardless, while I'd happily take a pop at the foreign leagues, my main points are that:
a) they're very risky, and
b) they're not as cheap as they were back then.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

Jan Aage had a relatively long history in England by the time he came to us.

I have soft spots for both Marcelo and the Kat, but they both outperformed by domestic strikers I believe. I actually rated Suffo, Nade and Shelton; each had moments for us. The latter in that first match against Man U was utterly unplayable.

Regardless, while I'd happily take a pop at the foreign leagues, my main points are that:
a) they're very risky, and
b) they're not as cheap as they were back then.

Not sure sure.

You only have to look at the lad Zinchenko, think City only paid a couple of mill for him.

 

[Ricky]

Michael Frey, FC Zurich. Striker. 24. Tall. Strong. Mobile. Good shooting technique. Good in the air. Reasonable record. Boro linked. £2m bracket. Might be worth a punt, might not.

 

[Notts Blade 123]

I agree, we are probably one of the only sides in the top 2 divisions that haven't looked further afield. It's all well and good looking in the top for divisions in the UK but it completely limits who we can get. Look at the likes of Cardiff, Burnley, Bournemouth, Huddersfield, Fulham, Wolves, Brighton just to name a new who have been recently promoted and done well, they have all looked abroad for new talent. I really think we need to look away from the likes of Waghorn and look around Europe if we want to take a step forward (on a budget) rather than paying 8-10m for an slightly above average striker.

 

[Houso]

Not sure sure.

You only have to look at the lad Zinchenko, think City only paid a couple of mill for him.

Braithwaite to Boro - 9million, 6 goals last season.
Ricky van Wolfswinkel to Norwich a couple of seasons ago - 9million, 1 goal in his stay there before being binned.

Like I say... risky.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

Braithwaite to Boro - 9million, 6 goals last season.
Ricky van Wolfswinkel to Norwich a couple of seasons ago - 9million, 1 goal in his stay there before being binned.

Like I say... risky.

Yeah but these guys were playing for semi decent clubs in decent leagues who can ask for decent cash.

The likes of your FC UFA's in Russia aren't in the same league as your Feyenoords or Toulouses.

 

[Houso]

Yeah but these guys were playing for semi decent clubs in decent leagues who can ask for decent cash.

The likes of your FC UFA's in Russia aren't in the same league as your Feyenoords or Toulouses.

But, then surely the chance of a successful signing is much less likely? Otherwise, every club would be doing it.

And it goes without saying, a scouting network the likes of Man City's requires incredible investment on it's own.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

But, then surely the chance of a successful signing is much less likely? Otherwise, every club would be doing it.

And it goes without saying, a scouting network the likes of Man City's requires incredible investment on it's own.

Whilst I would agree in years gone by, scouting these days has almost become an obsolete job. All games are available to watch online, all players will be touted around by agents (along with videos etc).

The only difference is, Man City will probably have offered him 40k a week.

 

[YES Blade]

Braithwaite to Boro - 9million, 6 goals last season.
Ricky van Wolfswinkel to Norwich a couple of seasons ago - 9million, 1 goal in his stay there before being binned.

Like I say... risky.

But there is still risk in buying strikers from the Championship, just ask Wednesday about Jordan Rhodes and Villa about Ross McCormack.

 

[Houso]

But there is still risk in buying strikers from the Championship, just ask Wednesday about Jordan Rhodes and Villa about Ross McCormack.

Of course there is. But I'm not arguing the case that one is risky, and the other is not.

I'm arguing that one is riskier.

Also, I've certainly not said DON'T DO IT, just that it's not a case of continuing to buy our stroopwafels in Waitrose, when there are nicer and cheaper ones from Lidl. Every now and then, your Lidl stroopwafel might taste like Laurens Ten Heuval. I think I lost the thread of that analogy at some point.

 

[Eric Cartman]

I agree, we are probably one of the only sides in the top 2 divisions that haven't looked further afield. It's all well and good looking in the top for divisions in the UK but it completely limits who we can get. Look at the likes of Cardiff, Burnley, Bournemouth, Huddersfield, Fulham, Wolves, Brighton just to name a new who have been recently promoted and done well, they have all looked abroad for new talent. I really think we need to look away from the likes of Waghorn and look around Europe if we want to take a step forward (on a budget) rather than paying 8-10m for an slightly above average striker.

Burnley's promotion side was completely British and Irish.

Brighton's was vast majority British and Irish, as was Bournemouth's and I hate to break it to you so was Cardiff's.

 

[Eric Cartman]

But there is still risk in buying strikers from the Championship, just ask Wednesday about Jordan Rhodes and Villa about Ross McCormack.

On that point I'd take McCormack tomorrow if he fancies rebuilding his career for a cut wage

 

[YES Blade]

Of course there is. But I'm not arguing the case that one is risky, and the other is not.

I'm arguing that one is riskier.

Also, I've certainly not said DON'T DO IT, just that it's not a case of continuing to buy our stroopwafels in Waitrose, when there are nicer and cheaper ones from Lidl. Every now and then, your Lidl stroopwafel might taste like Laurens Ten Heuval. I think I lost the thread of that analogy at some point.

We're all in agreement that all transfers have risk, like you say some are riskier than others and buying proven talent like Rhodes and McCormack shouldn't be a huge risk but for whatever they turned into crap buys.

If we can't get the players we want to fit into our budget, then surely it's got to come to a point where we have to start going for the cheaper options abroad.

 

[Houso]

We're all in agreement that all transfers have risk, like you say some are riskier than others and buying proven talent like Rhodes and McCormack shouldn't be a huge risk but for whatever they turned into crap buys.

If we can't get the players we want to fit into our budget, then surely it's got to come to a point where we have to start going for the cheaper options abroad.

Yes. But they're not always cheaper.

Anyway, I think I'm going against the grain on this one, and it's not an avenue that Wilder will be interested in, so I'll leave it there

 

[Yellarbellyblade]

Sign some Congolese kid for £1,000 who can do 100m in 8 seconds flat and who is built like Yaya Toure

Aren’t they all at Arsenal’s academy?

 

[Notts Blade 123]

Burnley's promotion side was completely British and Irish.

Brighton's was vast majority British and Irish, as was Bournemouth's and I hate to break it to you so was Cardiff's.

I was referring to Burnley last season for one on their achievement.

Brighton had:
Niki Mäenpää
Bruno (Captain)
Gaëtan Bong
Uwe Hünemeier
Beram Kayal
Jiří Skalák
Tomer Hemed
Anthony Knockaert
Sébastien Pocognoli

and some more.

Cardiff had:
Kenneth Zohore
Frédéric Gounongbe
Loïc Damour
Bruno Ecuele Manga

Bournemouth had:
Tokelo Rantie
Yann Kermorgant

 

[Eric Cartman]

I was referring to Burnley last season for one on their achievement.

Brighton had:
Niki Mäenpää
Bruno (Captain)
Gaëtan Bong
Uwe Hünemeier
Beram Kayal
Jiří Skalák
Tomer Hemed
Anthony Knockaert
Sébastien Pocognoli

and some more.

Cardiff had:
Kenneth Zohore
Frédéric Gounongbe
Loïc Damour
Bruno Ecuele Manga

Bournemouth had:
Tokelo Rantie
Yann Kermorgant

Last season fair enough, in the Prem both Brighton and Burnley found the foreign market a good source to sign bargains or just good value players, but they went up with majority British and Irish sides like I said. Bong, Kayal, Knockaert and Pocognoli were all playing in Britain when they signed them.
Of Cardiff's side Zohore and Damour were the two signed recently, Manga was there from there last Prem stint and the other chap was a dud who played 10 games in 2 years.

That's not to say I don't think we should exploit the foreign market - I certainly do. Just saying it is achievable with a squad like ours too.

 

[Bladezz]

7 seasons in league one and within 12 months our fans wants us to have an extensive scouting network scouring leagues in Europe.

Only at this club would we expect to be able to do thag. We are competing with teams said above who have been here years. For every positive you show of scouting abroad ask Charlton fans how that went.

 

[8lade]

We seem to be pals with Inter Milan, maybe they could point us at a target who wasn't quite good enough for them...

 

[bongleblade]

yep

 

[Chali 2na]

Whilst I would agree in years gone by, scouting these days has almost become an obsolete job. All games are available to watch online, all players will be touted around by agents (along with videos etc).

The only difference is, Man City will probably have offered him 40k a week.

I think you'd be surprised Scooter; the level of detail scouts go into is mental.

And it's all very well and good having a video, but you have to trust the opinion of the person watching it (the scout) or it's redundant.

The birth of the internet and statistic databases has probably cut the ammount of traveling they do, but they're far from obsolete: big clubs put more resources into scouting than ever before.

 

[10-0 win]

Just read an article on Jan Aage Fjortoft, who by 1993 wanted away from Rapid Vienna. He made 30 vhs copies(extremely bad quality) of himself scoring and sent them to clubs around Europe, mostly England. He had no agent and acted on behalf of himself when signing a contract with newly promoted Swindon. Than he probably had something to offer scoring 220 careergoals in 496 games + another 20 goals for Norway.

 

[mancunianblade]

7 seasons in league one and within 12 months our fans wants us to have an extensive scouting network scouring leagues in Europe.

Only at this club would we expect to be able to do thag. We are competing with teams said above who have been here years. For every positive you show of scouting abroad ask Charlton fans how that went.

This isn’t a new thing. We were very active in Europe throughout the 90s our scouting network has regressed since. Charlton don’t scout abroad they are owned by a group who move players around the group.

As for competing with teams around us who have more spending power etc ... exactly a this we can’t compete we think we found a bargain in Martin Waghorn (which says it all) and even then looking like we will get pipped at the post.

 

[Bladezz]

This isn’t a new thing. We were very active in Europe throughout the 90s our scouting network has regressed since. Charlton don’t scout abroad they are owned by a group who move players around the group.

As for competing with teams around us who have more spending power etc ... exactly a this we can’t compete we think we found a bargain in Martin Waghorn (which says it all) and even then looking like we will get pipped at the post.

Scouting Europe has not changed since the 90s. The big teams don’t just have scouts out there they own football teams out there. Other teams like Brentford have been scouting Europe extensively for a few years. We are behind and it will take time for us to reach the same levels.

Charlton also bought from many clubs not just the Belgian club. For every success there is a failure. For me I’d rather us have another season with British players which has brought us great success.

 

[mancunianblade]

Scouting Europe has not changed since the 90s. The big teams don’t just have scouts out there they own football teams out there. Other teams like Brentford have been scouting Europe extensively for a few years. We are behind and it will take time for us to reach the same levels.

Charlton also bought from many clubs not just the Belgian club. For every success there is a failure. For me I’d rather us have another season with British players which has brought us great success.

I wouldn't want to follow Charltons lead, they're owner owns 4 or 5 teams throughout Europe too. As for the comment about Scouting Europe Im talking about our scouting network. and it cant be said that it hasn't, the club has even said we don't have a scouting network abroad. but during the 90s, we ended up with Wirmola, Flo, Nilsen, Katchuro, Marcello, Dellas, Borbokis all direct from the continent.

What is great success though top half? people reel off Burnley and Brighton as examples of success but im not having that, this may still be recent memory but no one can argue that even since Brighton went up the game has changed and we cant compete on that level financially, and I don't want us to. teams cant be bothered to do their homework, so when we do ours and teams get wind they just come in with a higher bid than ours and we miss out then we have to start again. I mean we thought we had out smarted the group on Martin Waghorn of all people for what would be our record fee then 2 other teams come in and then all of a sudden we aren't even a consideration. who next?