The Wage Structure

[Sean Thornton]

If we get Evans from his Norwich days we've already got a £10 million player.
It's all about the 'ifs'.

Quite possibly ST, but repetition helps eases some of my shoulder tension.

I'm becoming increasingly livid at the situation to be honest. I'm perhaps one of a small group of supporters whose piss itches due to the fact that we aren't an established premier league side. I see it as a thing a f'ing shame. That's my benchmark. I'll grudgingly accept being in the championship, only due to the pain & anguish caused by a catastrophic 5 yrs in League 1, a few more of which would've probably ended the club.

We are now basically faced with a situation whereby we can't afford to bring in players of suitable quality on full time deals, so we're loaning them, and if the truth be told we can't even afford that fully, because the deals seem to hinge on the player's club paying well over 1/2 the players salary whilst on loan.

We have 3 contracted keepers on the books, two of whom we don't seem to think are good enough for the championship, but if rumours are to be believed other championship clubs do. They'll probably leave soon leaving a loanee and a lad that doesn't need to shave every day as no. 2. We saw how quickly we can strip away the confidence of a young keeper, but hey, not only shall we repeat it, we'll have two of 'em to ruin. If the contracted two go, we'll need to buy a keeper as cover, but we can't afford to buy reserve championship quality, but we're letting 2 go. Where is the fucking sense in that? We had a decent lad in on loan last year, who after drastically improving and getting to know the place and his back four, we've not retained the services of, for whatever reason, probably money. Leeds United appear to have stepped in, because after the shit show of their keeper last season, they see the value of someone competent between the sticks. We've now basically got 2 untried 21 yr olds, one of whom isn't ours and I suspect is subject to a recall.

We've got a strike force which, whilst doing the business last season, are another year older and approaching the end of their careers. So the answer is a loan again. All this is doing is kicking the can down the road for another 12 months, in a rising market. What is our long term strategy as a club? Or haven't we got one; choosing to exist on a month to month basis? Do we think that we'll be any better placed to buy a goal keeper or striker of sufficient quality next year or do we intend to loan players in from here on in? How the fucking hell do teams like barnsley, burton et al survive and prosper when it seems that we have all on functioning as a professional football club. Despite us making the buying of footballers look like a semi impossible thing, forest have managed to bring in 15 new players since the season ended.

I don't know if anyone at the club reads this forum, if they do, may i please suggest that on the next meeting's agenda somebody puts 'Duffy (33 in October), Sharp (33 in February), Clarke (34 in February), Wright (33 in March) & Holmes (32 in June): Succession Planning' and please fucking discuss it & resolve it a full 12 months before it becomes a crisis, because at best we are in danger of turning into a modern day version of Porterfield's dad's army, at worst we are unintentionally reducing our 1st team to a decent 5 a-side team.

Despite being thought of as a club patsy I agree with all of that. Yes it's a dismal situation but your opinion goes a long way further than "fuck the owners" which is the rallying call for quite a few on here. Quite a few who can't post anything new, whatever happens.

As a McCabist, I'm pissed off at the latest shambles over financing. I'm not anti HRH but I'm firmly in the devil you know camp. Sadly, I don't think the Devil I know, knows what he's doing at the moment, and my crunch support is behind Sheffield United Football Club only. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[South Bucks]

So the court judgement gives away some high up at utd budget on 20k a week each for new transfer wages of 5 strikers signed for peanuts yet some think these are not high enough wages and we need cover in every position.
Fundamentally a question of choosing quality or quantity with a big squad and I know which I prefer when only 11 can be on the pitch, a lesson we have never learned.

 

[Eric Cartman]

If we get Evans from his Norwich days we've already got a £10 million player.
It's all about the 'ifs'.

Bit of a difference in 10 years compared to 2 wouldn’t you say?

Hogan still has plenty of ability and showed it on a quite frequent basis. Would be brilliant for us.

 

[robbiez666]

But that's one of the battles that McCabe has won against the Prince.....keeping the team British and Irish centric and dismissing the Princes desire to start European scouting.
Kev seemed quite proud of that when he announced it.

If we want to stay in this league, or better, we desperately need to have a much wider scouting network. How many Championship quality players that will improve our first team and cost very little and won;t want paying much are there? And why would no other team think to sign them?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Buy Turkish is my advice. Cheap as chips and the fakes are 95% as good as the real thing.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Buy Turkish is my advice. Cheap as chips and the fakes are 95% as good as the real thing.

Awright Turkish!

 

[Worksop II]

but I'm firmly in the devil you know camp. Sadly, I don't think the Devil I know, knows what he's doing at the moment,

Strange way to talk about yer Dad Scott !!

 

[bromtom]

So the court judgement gives away some high up at utd budget on 20k a week each for new transfer wages of 5 strikers signed for peanuts yet some think these are not high enough wages and we need cover in every position.
Fundamentally a question of choosing quality or quantity with a big squad and I know which I prefer when only 11 can be on the pitch, a lesson we have never learned.

20K a week is bloody reasonable to me, even from a footballers perspective, just had a look at some wages in the Prem and a some of Brighton players are on similar, so it's at least competitive if the article I read is to be believed.

Totally understand not paying over the odds, not wanting to get bent over by some 6 goal a season Billy big bollocks that thinks he derserves Kyle Walker's wage packet.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Strange way to talk about yer Dad Scott !!

He's taken Simon to Sundown Pets Centre to try and sort out his fear of that dragon. We were supposed to watch the WCF at Spearmint Rhino and then nip to Bessemers to meet Tufty and the BBC for a bit of Northern Soul and grab a GILF.

I'm just glad I have the top bunk.

 

[BigBed]

and... that’s my point

And.....I already know, but you felt the need to point it out, so I joined in.

 

[BigBed]

How much did I say would?

How much did I say wouldn't?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

In all seriousness it has to rise without being too dramatic, you cannot get success by paying wages that restrict bringing in better players. I agree an unbalnced wage structure could demotivate some but if it got us up they would soon change their tune. Every player has a value, you either pay it or don't. The dont's rarely progress.

 

[SwissBlade]

It needs upping. Simple as that.

I’m fed up of ‘wages’ being an excuse for not signing any fucker, we have just received 12mil plus if reports are to be believed for David Brooks.

We are weaker than last season as it stands with a questionable and aging frontline and struggling for depth in defence too.
Desperate for reinforcements but everyone rumoured is supposed to be on loan (did we not learn anything in 2010?) and even then it’s ‘wages’ that are the problem.

If they’re going to upset the Apple cart - pay those deserving of more money, more money. Then you won’t upset the ‘team spirit’ by signing your Scott Hogans and Sam Gallaghers.

I’m fed up of using excuses, pay the going rate and give us half a chance this season. The negative vibe around the place right now is palpable - Portugal made it even worse. I’ve seen it all first hand.

I see your point, but how do we pay for it? How much profit did we make in the first season in Championship? with 4million for Brooks I'm not sure it was that much.

Its easy to say that the owners need to pay, but what should they do, stick another 10-20 million in per season? Its no guarantee of success, even worse, fail and you're into the FFP fuck up that so many are struggling with

If we increase the wages, what then? Sure we bring in Hogan or Gallagher, but then you have the rest of the players needing their wages doubling. That wouldn't get close to the Stoke, West Brom, Boro wages.

 

[SteveBlade]

I reckon our best bet is just continuing to do things on the cheap and hope Wilder can wangle a promotion.

 

[Eric Cartman]

I see your point, but how do we pay for it? How much profit did we make in the first season in Championship? with 4million for Brooks I'm not sure it was that much.

Its easy to say that the owners need to pay, but what should they do, stick another 10-20 million in per season? Its no guarantee of success, even worse, fail and you're into the FFP fuck up that so many are struggling with

If we increase the wages, what then? Sure we bring in Hogan or Gallagher, but then you have the rest of the players needing their wages doubling. That wouldn't get close to the Stoke, West Brom, Boro wages.

You only raise the players that warrant it.

JOC and Fleck are players that could walk into 20k elsewhere - minimum. Pay them as such.

Others such as Coutts could prove themselves after injury and warrant the same. Baldock improves his goal return he’s in the same bracket.

Clarke and Billy are too old now and won’t get their current earnings elsewhere, same with Stearman.

We don’t have to raise the wages of every player at the club but we have to give ourselves the ability to sign your likes of Scott Hogan without upsetting the Apple cart. This is the only way I see fit.

It takes one gamble of signing league one/two players to go wrong (signing 4 for example, all of which can’t hack the championship) and a combination of too many loan players - to equal disaster. We have to pay the going rate.

 

[SwissBlade]

You only raise the players that warrant it.

JOC and Fleck are players that could walk into 20k elsewhere - minimum. Pay them as such.

Others such as Coutts could prove themselves after injury and warrant the same. Baldock improves his goal return he’s in the same bracket.

Clarke and Billy are too old now and won’t get their current earnings elsewhere, same with Stearman.

We don’t have to raise the wages of every player at the club but we have to give ourselves the ability to sign your likes of Scott Hogan without upsetting the Apple cart. This is the only way I see fit.

It takes one gamble of signing league one/two players to go wrong (signing 4 for example, all of which can’t hack the championship) and a combination of too many loan players - to equal disaster. We have to pay the going rate.

It doesn't work like that though does it? Part of the reason that things work so well at the club is because there are no superstar wages, nobody turning up in a Lambo whilst others park up their Renault Clio. The range is quite small now.

Pull a player in on 30k a week whilst Clarke and Sharp sit on 10-15k then they either ask for a raise or they go. No problem you say, they're too old anyway.... however thats two players gone. Who do you replace them with? a 10k a week striker? No, because they know you pay 30k... They want 30k too.

 

[Eric Cartman]

It doesn't work like that though does it? Part of the reason that things work so well at the club is because there are no superstar wages, nobody turning up in a Lambo whilst others park up their Renault Clio. The range is quite small now.

Pull a player in on 30k a week whilst Clarke and Sharp sit on 10-15k then they either ask for a raise or they go. No problem you say, they're too old anyway.... however thats two players gone. Who do you replace them with? a 10k a week striker? No, because they know you pay 30k... They want 30k too.

They have to earn it. They can’t all have their wages raised when not warranting it.

 

[SwissBlade]

They have to earn it. They can’t all have their wages raised when not warranting it.

Sure, but its a team sport.

What do you say to Freeman when he comes in to you telling you he's earned it after putting in 10 assists for Hogan and scored 5 goals by xmas? He wants a 3 year deal and 20k a week...

 

[bromtom]

They have to earn it. They can’t all have their wages raised when not warranting it.

That'd be great but football is ridiculous. Kyle Walker is extremely good but does he warrant £130,000 a week?

It's not what they earn or deserve, it's what they can get.

 

[Eric Cartman]

That'd be great but football is ridiculous. Kyle Walker is extremely good but does he warrant £130,000 a week?

It's not what they earn or deserve, it's what they can get.

Clarke and Sharp are too old to warrant better than what they’re on now for example.

JOC and Fleck are the two I worry about instantly.

 

[Eric Cartman]

Sure, but its a team sport.

What do you say to Freeman when he comes in to you telling you he's earned it after putting in 10 assists for Hogan and scored 5 goals by xmas? He wants a 3 year deal and 20k a week...

You pay accordingly. If that happens it’s hard to argue he’s deserving of it so you pay it him. That’s how football works.

 

[Harrisblade]

Clarke and Sharp are too old to warrant better than what they’re on now for example.

JOC and Fleck are the two I worry about instantly.

What are Clarke and Sharp on?
If they were 21 and scored 10 goals each last season would they then warrant a better deal?

 

[bromtom]

Clarke and Sharp are too old to warrant better than what they’re on now for example.

JOC and Fleck are the two I worry about instantly.

Oh, I agree completely. Fleck, JOC, and I'd chuck Baldock in too, they deserve a bit more as they could get it elsewhere easily.

Billy and Leon, in confidence, as most footballers would I imagine would say they're being paid a fair wage since they renogatiated last season, I bet a lot of footballers go home to their parents or partners and express disbelief at the amount of money they've managed to get as a salary and say things like "I'd have been happy on half that" but as I said, football is ridiculous now.

Don't know where it'll end to be honest. Maybe when someone like Villa actually disappears because of debts some kind of cost cutting will take place.

 

[Dutch Blade]

It costs money to send scouts over there and our wage budget doesn’t allow that...

Scouts are dirt cheap. Just hire someone who already lives in the country where you're going to scout. A. The guy has much more basic knowledge about the competition (assuming you hire someone with knowledge) B. Travel expenses are cheap and salary of a scout is really low.

Also, With the technology nowadays it literally cost nothing to just track certain divisions online. You only need to invest in the start, have lots of talks and get the right people in the right place.

 

[8lade]

Bit of a difference in 10 years compared to 2 wouldn’t you say?

Yes. And by the same token last year Hogan scored 7 from 28 starts and 22 sub appearances in a good Villa side gunning for promotion whilst Evans was berated for not being fit. Hogan was decidely average last season or was that his standard and the Brentford season his one good season? As I say we're all talking unknowns still but Hogan and Gallagher are being hoisted as top potential signings when there is no statistical data to support this.

 

[Eric Cartman]

What are Clarke and Sharp on?
If they were 21 and scored 10 goals each last season would they then warrant a better deal?

Clarke signed a new contract in January, one would assume he’s happy with what he’s on

As far as I’m aware Sharp is still the top earner.

 

[Eric Cartman]

Yes. And by the same token last year Hogan scored 7 from 28 starts and 22 sub appearances in a good Villa side gunning for promotion whilst Evans was berated for not being fit. Hogan was decidely average last season or was that his standard and the Brentford season his one good season? As I say we're all talking unknowns still but Hogan and Gallagher are being hoisted as top potential signings when there is no statistical data to support this.

Villa’s strikers didn’t score many at all because they didn’t create many chances. Grabban scored more for Sunderland.

With the amount we create we’d be laughing with Hogan upfront.

 

[8lade]

Clarke and Sharp are too old to warrant better than what they’re on now for example.

What are Clarke and Sharp on?
If they were 21 and scored 10 goals each last season would they then warrant a better deal?

Agree on that HB so Clarke is 33 still knocked in 19 goals for us does he get less because he's 33?

 

[Eric Cartman]

Agree on that HB so Clarke is 33 still knocked in 19 goals for us does he get less because he's 33?

He doesn’t get less for being 33, he gets a wage of a player that we aren’t certain when his legs will go.

Every player over the age of 30 is a risk because of that reason. Mid twenties it’s not a risk at all.

One would assume this is his best ever contract.

 

[8lade]

With the amount we create we’d be laughing with Hogan upfront.

When have you watched Hogan? As most people know by now when a name pops up I trundle on over to Youtube and watch that player's highlights. Hogan's were really uninspiring (as were most of the players mentioned) but if you put a highlights clip together of Sharp or Clarke from last season, I'd be clapping like a seal if I thought we were going to sign them.