Wilder on the boardroom struggle

[wavy-blade]

Bye Chris thanks for a great two years, best of luck at West Brom

No no no , you ment Everton , surely!!!!

( don't call me surely )

 

[finlaytheblade]

The prince in my opinion looks at football from the American model of a franchise which can be moved around on the owners wim.
He's big on American sport which is totally different to our way.Khan the Fulham owner is hoping to bring his American EFL club to Wembley .If the prince owned us would he want to move us out of BraBramall lane.if he just wants the club without its other assets. this is a possibility.
Remember Remember Wimbledon relocated to Milton KEYNES

 

[Rob86]

As much as it will surprise people, the price HRH will pay for BDTBL as a stadium and the cost of buying another site & building a 30k stadium will be more than the value of the land at BDTBL could be sold for as housing.

Yeah we were talking about this yesterday. I have no idea how much a 30,000 seater would cost (£200m ?) but Bramall Lane is not in an area where you’d be buying real estate. Then again I also don’t know how many flats you could build on it. Surely before any new stadium etc. we’d need to be in the Premier League.

 

[SelbyBlade]

No no no , you ment Everton , surely!!!!

( don't call me surely )

Joking apart it will be Southampton where he started his career. However I can only hope that this is sorted out really quickly (very small chance of this) or he will walk. The interview was not a veiled threat it was a statement of facts, he did the same at Northampton.

 

[ShockingBadBuy]

The prince in my opinion looks at football from the American model of a franchise which can be moved around on the owners wim.
He's big on American sport which is totally different to our way.Khan the Fulham owner is hoping to bring his American EFL club to Wembley .If the prince owned us would he want to move us out of BraBramall lane.if he just wants the club without its other assets. this is a possibility.
Remember Remember Wimbledon relocated to Milton KEYNES

Crikey, I hope not. Do you have any evidence for this opinion, or are you just guessing ?

 

[Bladezz]

I’ve been saying this for months. Look at the spending table we aren’t competing. Barnsley have spent more than us. We have had more money come in than them and we aren’t competing.

 

[metalblade]

Because HRH is not intersted in buying the hotel, Shirecliffe & Crookes. He wants to buy only the football business. KM will not agree to this so the two are stubbornly left in deadlock. Typical SUFC example of shooting itself in the foot.

When you think about it why would he want the academy ? The players it produces don't stay around long enough for SUFC to get any benefit they are sold off cheap after a few first team games, any profit goes back into the academy running costs.
More likely McCabe wants to sell the whole lot but the price tag is way too high because he wants back every penny he put in even the monies wasted on overseas adventures in China, Belgium, Australia, Hungary to name a few. McCabe has wasted millions even the hotel is a flop and adds nothing to SUFC he is dreaming if he thinks someone else is going to pay for his failures. Very few owners of football clubs make money out of owning them, until McCabe accepts this he will hang on to what he has and keep dragging us down.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

Because HRH is not intersted in buying the hotel, Shirecliffe & Crookes. He wants to buy only the football business. KM will not agree to this so the two are stubbornly left in deadlock. Typical SUFC example of shooting itself in the foot.

Sorry mate, but that doesn't make sense. When the agreement was drawn up for The Prince to buy 50% stake in "the club", the contract, by law, must have defined what "the club" constitutes - and that would be not just the football club, but also the hotel, offices, training ground etc. That's what the Prince owns 50% of already. What this seems to be about is a valuation of "the club", including these ancillary assets, the hotel, offices, training ground. It's possible that they can't agree on a valuation, but not on the components of the valuation, because they are already part-owned by the Prince.

 

[wavy-blade]

Joking apart it will be Southampton where he started his career. However I can only hope that this is sorted out really quickly (very small chance of this) or he will walk. The interview was not a veiled threat it was a statement of facts, he did the same at Northampton.

 

[spongebobblade]

Why did he? Answer your own question. Are you saying Prince ain’t bothered any more?

KM took Prince on board. Prince and KM are allegedly in court. Why?

Rumours are that KM is overvaluing the assets.

Your talking in riddles now. MacCabe took the Prince on board for a pound with the promise of investment. That’s FACT.
Rumours from where? You? Show me these “rumours.
Why do YOU think he sold him half the club for a £1? He’s only interested in profit according to you

 

[SelbyBlade]

Sorry mate, but that doesn't make sense. When the agreement was drawn up for The Prince to buy 50% stake in "the club", the contract, by law, must have defined what "the club" constitutes - and that would be not just the football club, but also the hotel, offices, training ground etc. That's what the Prince owns 50% of already. What this seems to be about is a valuation of "the club", including these ancillary assets, the hotel, offices, training ground. It's possible that they can't agree on a valuation, but not on the components of the valuation, because they are already part-owned by the Prince.

My understanding (having not seen the contract) was that the club is split into different component through Scarborough Investments. KM stated he wanted a "vanilla" investor who was just going to invest in the team. It would be unlikely that £1 would also get access to £millions of property also. However the buying of the whole club now seems to include all the real estate as this is the only way the Prince can take sole control. Therefore the Prince would have to pay the full value of the Real Estate which is part of the squabble. However I don't think CM wants out at all and is trying to use the situation to take back full control. I also think that the Prince is miffed as he invests in the team but doesn't get a say on how it runs hence he wants full control.

 

[spongebobblade]

I’ve been saying this for months. Look at the spending table we aren’t competing. Barnsley have spent more than us. We have had more money come in than them and we aren’t competing.

we also have more expenses and a larger wage bill. If only it was that simple

 

[Bladezz]

we also have more expenses and a larger wage bill. If only it was that simple

We also have greater income. I will agree our wage bill is probably higher than theirs due to higher attendances / hotel revenue etc. But without being pedantic surly you see my point?.

 

[spongebobblade]

My understanding (having not seen the contract) was that the club is split into different component through Scarborough Investments. KM stated he wanted a "vanilla" investor who was just going to invest in the team. It would be unlikely that £1 would also get access to £millions of property also. However the buying of the whole club now seems to include all the real estate as this is the only way the Prince can take sole control. Therefore the Prince would have to pay the full value of the Real Estate which is part of the squabble. However I don't think CM wants out at all and is trying to use the situation to take back full control. I also think that the Prince is miffed as he invests in the team but doesn't get a say on how it runs hence he wants full control.

I think MacCabes worry is that the Prince has spent so little time hear he still just doesn’t “get” United. He hasn’t bought into this clubs ethos’s and the fear is he could be responsible for ruining that. I think it’s clear now that the Prince isn’t as interested as we first thought he was going to be. It’s possible MacCabe has other investment lined up but as yet we don’t know. First and foremost is to sort out the current situation and address the budget for next season. Time is of the essence here which is why Wilder has brought this up before the seasons end

 

[Snowman]

Not really. Wilder said he won’t be a patsy (to the board presumably). Yet we have people on here backing the board.

Ergo, patsies

Weird! Where do you get I'm backing the board from? I asked where the money was coming from. Get a grip!

 

[spongebobblade]

We also have greater income. I will agree our wage bill is probably higher than theirs due to higher attendances / hotel revenue etc. But without being pedantic surly you see my point?.

The hotel isn’t part of the club so the revenue doesn’t count. I do see your point but as I said, it isn’t quite that simple. Bigger clubs with bigger revenues have bigger expenditure. They don’t necessarily have bigger profits.

 

[Bladezz]

The hotel isn’t part of the club so the revenue doesn’t count. I do see your point but as I said, it isn’t quite that simple. Bigger clubs with bigger revenues have bigger expenditure. They don’t necessarily have bigger profits.

Point taken. But the championship isn’t really about profit as daft as it sounds. The championship for 10 teams is a chairman’s dream of premiership football.

Teams like Boro aren’t here to make profit when they spend £50million on fees alone at the start of the season.

That’s the issue your competing against teams that in essence spend more on transfer fees in an 18 month period that the whole worth of our club.

 

[Dkc]

Aint half been some shit beind spouted on this thread. Some people still seem to think that McCabe is some kind of Mr Burns off the Simpsons who is refusing to invest or relinquish control, while the Prince is a knight in shining armour who will turn us into another Man City, when in fact McCsbe has the club's interests at heart while HRH hasn't been to a game this season and wouldn't give a fuck if we played in blue and white at Wickersley as long as the club was making him money

 

[spongebobblade]

Point taken. But the championship isn’t really about profit as daft as it sounds. The championship for 10 teams is a chairman’s dream of premiership football.

Teams like Boro aren’t here to make profit when they spend £50million on fees alone at the start of the season.

That’s the issue your competing against teams that in essence spend more on transfer fees in an 18 month period that the whole worth of our club.

Which is the reason MacCabe brought the Prince on board. It clearly isn’t working which is the reason it needs sorting and fast. Personally I’d rather MaCabe took full control and looked for other investment. I’m sure if he had full control he would back Chris in the short term. The Prince having full control is taking the step into the dark. We could live to regret it and I think Kev may think the same. A huge risk. Better the devil you know for me

 

[Snowman]

Sorry mate, but that doesn't make sense. When the agreement was drawn up for The Prince to buy 50% stake in "the club", the contract, by law, must have defined what "the club" constitutes - and that would be not just the football club, but also the hotel, offices, training ground etc. That's what the Prince owns 50% of already. What this seems to be about is a valuation of "the club", including these ancillary assets, the hotel, offices, training ground. It's possible that they can't agree on a valuation, but not on the components of the valuation, because they are already part-owned by the Prince.

Just a couple of points CB. In an ideal world of contractual law everything would be defined beautifully, but there is no "law" that the club should be defined. I've seen enough cases of negligent drafting to know that. However, I would hope that with the cash these guys have got they wouldn't have downloaded Solly's do it yourself contracts from't net. Secondly and more to the point, I would have thought there would be provision for the appointment of a valuer and arbitration if it was a valuation problem, or do you suspect something more fundamental than this?

 

[Rodley]

My understanding (having not seen the contract) was that the club is split into different component through Scarborough Investments. KM stated he wanted a "vanilla" investor who was just going to invest in the team. It would be unlikely that £1 would also get access to £millions of property also. However the buying of the whole club now seems to include all the real estate as this is the only way the Prince can take sole control. Therefore the Prince would have to pay the full value of the Real Estate which is part of the squabble. However I don't think CM wants out at all and is trying to use the situation to take back full control. I also think that the Prince is miffed as he invests in the team but doesn't get a say on how it runs hence he wants full control.

Agreed. As I understand it the current arrangement is a JV agreement, with both parties contributing to running costs of the football club and transfer budgets, etc. I think McCabe retained the Academy, Ground, etc as an asset. This is a fairly common approach in property so I suspect rightly or wrongly it will something along these grounds given Kev’s property background.

The Agreement could give both parties the ability to buy the other out, probably a fixed / pre-agreed price for some elements and then the balance would have to be valued. If the other party doesn’t accept the valuation then it will be referred to Expert for an assessment of the valuation and agreement of the price. It could ultimately go to the courts. The difficulty has been that providing an accurate valuation for the club will have been impossible given you haven’t known for certain whether promotion, albeit a slim chance, was a goer. Even if you referred the matter to Expert I can’t see how a third party could accurately value the club.

There shouldn’t be anything that should (reasonably) stop an agreement being reached now. The agreement will have a process which will be followed. I should imagine it will take some time, but you would hope that both parties appreciate that the longer it goes on for the more potential damage to the progress of the club.

 

[Bladezz]

Which is the reason MacCabe brought the Prince on board. It clearly isn’t working which is the reason it needs sorting and fast. Personally I’d rather MaCabe took full control and looked for other investment. I’m sure if he had full control he would back Chris in the short term. The Prince having full control is taking the step into the dark. We could live to refer it and I think Kev may think the same. A huge risk. Better the devil you know for me

100% KM with his actions has showed he wants to sell some of his shares for investment in the playing squad. Otherwise we wouldn’t be where we are now. He tried to do exactly that with the Prince. But as CW says how long does this drag out for?. 6 months with limited budget may make us struggle next season. If we struggle next season will Fleck and JoC be persuaded to move? Most likely.

 

[Bladezz]

Agreed. As I understand it the current arrangement is a JV agreement, with both parties contributing to running costs of the football club and transfer budgets, etc. I think McCabe retained the Academy, Ground, etc as an asset. This is a fairly common approach in property so I suspect rightly or wrongly it will something along these grounds given Kev’s property background.

The Agreement could give both parties the ability to buy the other out, probably a fixed / pre-agreed price for some elements and then the balance would have to be valued. If the other party doesn’t accept the valuation then it will be referred to Expert for an assessment of the valuation and agreement of the price. It could ultimately go to the courts. The difficulty has been that providing an accurate valuation for the club will have been impossible given you haven’t known for certain whether promotion, albeit a slim chance, was a goer. Even if you referred the matter to Expert I can’t see how a third party could accurately value the club.

There shouldn’t be anything that should (reasonably) stop an agreement being reached now. The agreement will have a process which will be followed. I should imagine it will take some time, but you would hope that both parties appreciate that the longer it goes on for the more potential damage to the progress of the club.

I guess there’s a price for the club already agreed in the contract. Issue is if you buy just the club your not buying any assets your just buying the club working contracts and the brand.

I believe the issue is that the prince can buy the club but not the assets which then give us all sorts of issues.

 

[spongebobblade]

100% KM with his actions has showed he wants to sell some of his shares for investment in the playing squad. Otherwise we wouldn’t be where we are now. He tried to do exactly that with the Prince. But as CW says how long does this drag out for?. 6 months with limited budget may make us struggle next season. If we struggle next season will Fleck and JoC be persuaded to move? Most likely.

The problem at the moment is that if one doesn’t want to invest then why should the other? One might not want to invest as they may not own 50% for much longer, hence the stalemate. Basically a bloody mess at such a critical time in Wilders efforts to move us forward

 

[Broomhall Blade]

The academy... produced Walker, Naughton, Lawton, Maguire... combined transfer fees (to SUFC) £15m??? Add-ons of circa £7m(???). Those figures are open to interpretation but that’s at a guess. And that’s only those 4 names!!

They may have been queuing round the block. We don’t know. McCabe May have priced them out?

Or McCabe could have wanted certain guarantees about the club, like not changing the name, moving from the lane, or changing the kit etc, or maybe if there has been some serious offers McCabe's gut feeling maybe didn't trust them.
McCabe is not just any old owner or part owner he is a fan just like you and me( There are not many owners who are also supporters of that club)
he will only want whats best for the long term future of the club he supports.

 

[Drunk blade]

What money would that be and where from?

Game changing money

 

[Snowman]

Game changing money

Tha's avin a Giraffe!

 

[Drunk blade]

What money would that be and where from?

Mccabe will have done his due diligence when ge took him on as an investor, otherwise why let him have 50% of the club for £1 ... unless McCabe was so desperate to get out that he has fucked up spectacularly...... guess we will find out

 

[Drunk blade]

Tha's avin a Giraffe!

Think Liverpool not man city

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

The strange thing is, whilst you could understand HRH not wanting to pump money in whilst we were festering in League 1, he must surely see the potential in investing at this point given the year on year improvement and how close we've come this season.

Given the Prem is worth well over £100M just for being there for one season, it's a decent gamble if, and it's a big IF, there is the money available. So I can only presume it's 'I'm in charge or you're getting nothing'.

Where's Mr Phipps when you need him