Boro red card

[Chali 2na]

OK......well to be clear I don't think we should cheat and I certainly didn't say that, my original post was a question or a suggestion of what might have lead to certain situations in certain games......

Not by your definition, no. However, by my definition wasting time and feigning/exaggerating injury (your suggestions) are cheating, so as far as I'm concerned: you're advocating cheating.

So, and you conveniently swerved my previous question.....by your definition then we cheated to gain 3 points at Norwich, happy to chalk those points off?

Yes we cheated by (my) definition. We didn't necessarily cheat to gain 3 points though - we scored more goals than the opposition to gain 3 points.

As for "chalking off" - I would love to see a table that accounts for 'gamesmanship' (assuming said gamesmanship had a direct impact on the result).

 

[Torrix1889]

Not by your definition, no. However, by my definition wasting time and feigning/exaggerating injury (your suggestions) are cheating, so as far as I'm concerned: you're advocating cheating.



Yes we cheated by (my) definition. We didn't necessarily cheat to gain 3 points though - we scored more goals than the opposition to gain 3 points.

As for "chalking off" - I would love to see a table that accounts for 'gamesmanship' (assuming said gamesmanship had a direct impact on the result).

No, I am not advocating cheating at all.....I will repeat, because it obviously hasn't been clear enough......my post suggested what might have occurred.....had I said we should dive, roll about and time waste then fair point but to accuse me of advocating cheating because of an observation is unfair......maybe I should have placed a question mark at the end of my original post for clarity?

On to the Norwich game.....so you acknowledge that by your definition we "cheated" but because we scored more goals then that's OK? The fact that our "cheating" could have prevented Norwich from scoring an equalizer has no relevance then....the same "cheating" that prevented us from potentially scoring an equalizer at home to the same team?

 

[finlaytheblade]

Not by your definition, no. However, by my definition wasting time and feigning/exaggerating injury (your suggestions) are cheating, so as far as I'm concerned: you're advocating cheating.



Yes we cheated by (my) definition. We didn't necessarily cheat to gain 3 points though - we scored more goals than the opposition to gain 3 points.

As for "chalking off" - I would love to see a table that accounts for 'gamesmanship' (assuming said gamesmanship had a direct impact on the result).

Gamesmanship is part of the game be it ameteur or professional every team and player to some degree or other uses it,even the so called gentlemen footballers .
Buying a free kick or penalty is gamesmanship to a degree but is part of the game.Clever players use it to there advantage without breaking rules.

 

[Chali 2na]

No, I am not advocating cheating at all.....I will repeat, because it obviously hasn't been clear enough......my post suggested what might have occurred.....had I said we should dive, roll about and time waste then fair point but to accuse me of advocating cheating because of an observation is unfair......maybe I should have placed a question mark at the end of my original post for clarity?

A question mark would have probably changed my response - I interpreted it as a suggestion.

On to the Norwich game.....so you acknowledge that by your definition we "cheated" but because we scored more goals then that's OK? The fact that our "cheating" could have prevented Norwich from scoring an equalizer has no relevance then....the same "cheating" that prevented us from potentially scoring an equalizer at home to the same team?

Yeah, it's hard to say whether or not our 'cheating' resulted in us winning - we may (and i like to think) we could have won it without stooping to their level.

Gamesmanship is part of the game be it ameteur or professional every team and player to some degree or other uses it,even the so called gentlemen footballers .
Buying a free kick or penalty is gamesmanship to a degree but is part of the game.Clever players use it to there advantage without breaking rules.

I know, but the argument is the defintion of gamesmanship as opposed to cheating.

What do you mean by "buying a freekick"? If you're implying that exaggerating your fall or over stating contact is "part of the game", then it's a part I'm not fond of...

 

[LenTednTony]

The problem, as I see it, is not OUR interpretation of cheating or ‘game management’ and gamesmanship as pundits like to call it but the interpretation of the referee and officials. They are the professionals, not us. Saying we could referee better than them (which is what is being suggested) is like saying we can play better than the professionals. It is all very distasteful, I agree. My way to stop it would be that anyone who is considered to be cheating in a foul situation, should suffer the same fate as if he was the perpetrator of such a misdemeanour. Simulation in the box for a pen where the offender would be sent off, the simulator should get sent off etc., etc.

 

[Pinchy]

He should have been sent to the stands for:

a) Spending most of the game outside the technical area - despite being warned by the spineless fourth official and
b) Being a cunt.



Cheats prosper. Ask Leicester. Or West Ham. Or Leeds.

Odious Revie stands head and shoulders above anyone else as the biggest football cheat of all time, assisted by his First Mate, Billy Brown Bag Bremner.

 

[Trigger Blade]

Thought it was a standard yellow. Fleck beats him and he makes a bad challenge to take him out. Not a nasty one, and refs usually give a final warning, but it's a yellow.

That's what we thought would happen, "one more and you're off", it looked harsh and having watched it again, there was minimal if any contact and our man went down rather easily. Not that I'd say that to Flecky's face

Certainly, if it had been given against us, I'd have thought it very harsh.

 

[Kendal]

The way leadbitter was playing he was going to get sent off eventually he kept mistiming his tackles

There was no mistiming. He was hell bent on taking out players and the ball was just Incidental. He'd done a few 'accidental' late challenges already.
I know bbc report says 2nd yellow, but it looked like the ref only showed the red card.
Traore was taken off at half time as he was heading for a red. Every decision he was in the refs face, waving arms around to try and intimidate, grabbing hold. Basically a petulant little twat who isn't actually as good as he thinks he is.
Many times that ref could have booked them for dissent or foul & abusive language. I think that might have contributed to the red, because it did tone down their dirtiness and hounding a little. Still dirty bastards though.

 

[Kendal]

Cheats prosper. Ask Leicester. Or West Ham. Or Leeds.

Or Real Madrid. Or Liverpool. Or newton heath. Remember the fa youth cup final? It's obvious they are taught how to con the ref from a very early age

 

[finlaytheblade]

Odious Revie stands head and shoulders above anyone else as the biggest football cheat of all time, assisted by his First Mate, Billy Brown Bag Bremner.

100% pinchy couldn't agree with you more

 

[grafikhaus]

Odious Revie stands head and shoulders above anyone else as the biggest football cheat of all time, assisted by his First Mate, Billy Brown Bag Bremner.

 

[sheffielder]

ok it was harsh, but makes up for the 10 fouls, 5 warnings and 1 yellow card their left back Friend got.

 

[loyalblade95]

There was no mistiming. He was hell bent on taking out players and the ball was just Incidental. He'd done a few 'accidental' late challenges already.
I know bbc report says 2nd yellow, but it looked like the ref only showed the red card.
Traore was taken off at half time as he was heading for a red. Every decision he was in the refs face, waving arms around to try and intimidate, grabbing hold. Basically a petulant little twat who isn't actually as good as he thinks he is.
Many times that ref could have booked them for dissent or foul & abusive language. I think that might have contributed to the red, because it did tone down their dirtiness and hounding a little. Still dirty bastards though.

It was definitely second yellow he's showing the yellow as he makes his way over

 

[PokerBlade]

That's what we thought would happen, "one more and you're off", it looked harsh and having watched it again, there was minimal if any contact and our man went down rather easily. Not that I'd say that to Flecky's face

Certainly, if it had been given against us, I'd have thought it very harsh.

I think the contact is clear enough. Hard as nails Fleck does seem a little more hurt than he probably was...

Harsh maybe, but I also make a habit of blaming players for bad decisions. You know in the modern game that if you take a player out as they go past you on the half-way line you're getting booked more often than not. Don't rely on the referee being in a lenient mood when it's a stupid tackle to make.