In Conversation with Kevin McCabe (Octagon)

[Sean Thornton]

A bit harsh, especially as I don’t think he’s waded in yet.

Genuine lol Bob.

 

[UnitedBlade]

No ideawhcih puts me in the same position as everyone else on here. Two blokes with very different cultures and backgrounds but with a shared aim. I don't think KM will be bothered about a 'harmoniuos relationship' provided they both have the same end in mind.

Of course joint ownership is not ideal but KM simply hasn't got the wherewithal or stomach, to keep making good losses of £5m every season., so he had few options at the time. Whether new options have come to light is another thing entirely.

I agree KM hadn't the wherewithal or stomach to carry on with the losses. With him saying in a public forum last night that our ownership model needs to be reviewed sets off alarm bells for me. The problem as I see it is that both still have the same aim but it's dawning on them both that they probably don't have the joint funds to get promotion.

We could still be "lucky" and CW delivers a play off victory this season but I think the odds are increasing on that. The Prince may well ride this season out hoping we do get promotion but if it's true he hasn't come up with the extra funding expected when we reached the Championship (as some say) then something has to change.

We'll see how it plays out.

 

[blade too long]

think its a good time for mccabe to step down
hes righted some mistakes
won us a title which is rare and got us back in the championship top 10
if he goes we have a theresa may look about us
strong and stable finances and not in europe

 

[Pollingtonblade]

Apparently the Prince owns the biggest toilet paper manufacturer in the Middle East. His Arabic name is Mustafa Shit...

 

[ChemEngBlade]

I think,

McCabe wrote of huge debts due to himself (£30m - ish)

Which allowed the Prince to aquire half the Football Club for £1, not the ground or any other real estate, that was transferred out and is held by the McCabe (Family)

The Football Club ownership agreed to split the running / investments costs 50/50, typically £4m each per year

Which is where we are today

What benefit would this bring to McCabe as would he not be £30mil down and 50% less ownership for it?

 

[ChemEngBlade]

View attachment 36618

Care to elaborate on why I'm wrong or would you prefer to communicate through outdated memes?

 

[Sean Thornton]

Care to elaborate on why I'm wrong or would you prefer to communicate through outdated memes?

You're wrong because it's, well, to be frank, nonsense. To be even more blunt, I've never even seen that claim before. Anywhere.

I thought using an admittedly out of date meme would be kinder, but seeing as you appear to think there's even a remote possibility that you're even close to the facts, well.......

 

[ChemEngBlade]

You're wrong because it's, well, to be frank, nonsense. To be even more blunt, I've never even seen that claim before. Anywhere.

I thought using an admittedly out of date meme would be kinder, but seeing as you appear to think there's even a remote possibility that you're even close to the facts, well.......

It was a commonly held belief/rumour that this was the case when HRH took over, if your memory does not serve, well, then I guess you better get it checked. You've not actually proved me wrong yet, I'll wait....

 

[Harrisblade]

What benefit would this bring to McCabe as would he not be £30mil down and 50% less ownership for it?

It wasn't meant to be a "benefit to McCabe"
It was meant to be a benefit to the club by attracting some new investment.
Difficult for some to comprehend admittedly, but try really hard

 

[Worksop II]

What benefit would this bring to McCabe as would he not be £30mil down and 50% less ownership for it?

In theory he is £30m down, but he owes it to himself, how can he ever get the money back ? - remember we were in the 3rd Division

One way would be to get to the PL, but he cant get there he needs money, investment to get there, which is where the Prince came in

To attract the Prince he wrote that money off, thereby gaining investment, cash to help him support the Club

Yes, he gave up half the Football Club, in the 3rd division, and got £4m / year help from the Prince

The idea being to own half the Club in the PL, which would be a win for both guys

 

[Tunstall Fred]

A bit harsh, especially as I don’t think he’s waded in yet.

Mention the Desso and how Jamie Murphy and Mark Duffy were sold to pay for it,then he will

He's the King of the Internet you know.

 

[Sean Thornton]

It was a commonly held belief/rumour that this was the case when HRH took over, if your memory does not serve, well, then I guess you better get it checked. You've not actually proved me wrong yet, I'll wait....

Post up a link. Even to a rumour.

My memory is pretty sound on this. The debt was owed to McCabe/one of his companies. He transferred the debt t0 £10m in share capital, the remaining £27m to a share premium account. The Princes input paid for share capital and additional investment matched by Kevin McCabe. There was no other debt save day to day trading expenses.

I'm not going to prove to you that you're wrong if your so wide of the mark that you're still sticking with that nonsense. . And of all the claims I've seen, yours is a miss of Connor Sammon type ridiculousness.


Oh. The proof is there at Companies House.......

 

[Sean Thornton]

It wasn't meant to be a "benefit to McCabe"
It was meant to be a benefit to the club by attracting some new investment.
Difficult for some to comprehend admittedly, but try really hard

It's a win win for Kevin. HRH paid all the debts off with that £1 he put up. Everyone knew it at the time.......

 

[Blade56]

Apparently the Prince owns the biggest toilet paper manufacturer in the Middle East. His Arabic name is Mustafa Shit...

Surely it's Mustafa Wipe innit?

 

[Davalon]

A bit harsh, especially as I don’t think he’s waded in yet.

Depends what kind of 'stab' he means what with Pompey obviously being a sailor

 

[blade too long]

As most are aware we as a club , like most others run on around a fairly steady 5m a yesr loss on income to outgoing since 2000

We have sold some players which eases it a bit but still buy players too
And although a lot moan about this we dont sell in great numbers. one or 2 a year and rarely make up the 5m loss
So if we say we lose 3m a year on average someone , and there is only one suspect has covered that loss over the last 17 years
The west ham money cuts 17m off the 17 x 3 =51m in losses

these are not scientfically researched figures but arent far out , having watched our accounts ober the years


wednesdays owners didnt fill their gaps on leaving the prem and ended up 37 m in debt and on the verge of closure
if you dont make good like mccabe did you end up like coventry , portsmouth charlton and others have
Mcabes made some horrendous fooballing decisions but has kept the clubs finances within our control

 

[Chali 2na]

think its a good time for mccabe to step down

Step down? Who would take his place? Who would cover the yearly losses?

Post up a link. Even to a rumour.

My memory is pretty sound on this. The debt was owed to McCabe/one of his companies. He transferred the debt t0 £10m in share capital, the remaining £27m to a share premium account. The Princes input paid for share capital and additional investment matched by Kevin McCabe. There was no other debt save day to day trading expenses.

I'm not going to prove to you that you're wrong if your so wide of the mark that you're still sticking with that nonsense. . And of all the claims I've seen, yours is a miss of Connor Sammon type ridiculousness.


Oh. The proof is there at Companies House.......

You sure? Seems more likely he wrote off the debts for a pound

 

[Johnstreet John]

wednesday's model is the most flawed ever done, but if Villa or Derby don't go up this year they could go pop. Next few years you could add Boro, Fulham, Leeds, Birmingham either financially or FFP. Their levels of investment can not be maintained and owners will start taking their balls home.

Derby had three years of big spend to get out, and failed. They then bounced around with little spend for a couple of seasons, trying to balance ambition with realisation. Several managers came and went. Only this season do they look like have got it together again. Birmingham have never pushed for promotion. Parachute payments have gone . They have zero ambition to get up. Jota buy was bizarre really. Likened it to Crystal palace buying Messi . Wolves have gone shit or bust. Where Wednesday spent £35-40m against FFP rules over nearly three years, they've done same in one. Huge gamble that's paid off. Villa have spent over 100m in 18 mths since relegation. The last two examples show exactly why this league is probably less 'fair' than the premiership. Let's be right here, financially and realistically were punching above our weight. Yeh we aren't the first club with a low budget to push the big spenders all the way, but the stats say that the 'spend big model' is the one that is more likely to get you promoted, but with a risk of financial penalties. Our 'take a chance on chris' wasn't 100% supported at the time but it got us the league one title. He's done brilliant this season with little investment. But again I think McCabe got lucky rather than judgement. Wilders first contract tells us McCabe wasn't sure. Any investor can't walse in, chuck 20m around and just sit in the stand happy to see what happens. He'll have to buy a stake in the club first. That won't be cheap or straightforward.

 

[Sheffsteel]

But again I think McCabe got lucky rather than judgement.

I think there’s judgement and luck involved in every appointment.
On paper most of McCabes previous managerial appointments have been excellent but they’ve still not worked out.
The appointment of Wilder was the least ambitious appointment, going for the cheap option and it’s worked.

The issue that bugs me is that no one can give a definition of a great or poor Chairman. It seems to be solely based on finishing league position with promotion/ relegation being the biggest factors.

For example.
Let’s imagine 24 of the finest, most intelligent compassionate Chairman in the world, all managing a Championship club.
Nothing can prevent 3 clubs gaining promotion and 3 clubs gaining relegation.

You can bet that the supporters of the 3 relegated clubs will say they have a terrible Chairman, eventhough he’s done everything perfectly.

Also conversely a Chairman could be Adolf Hitler, treat fans with contempt and not have a clue about football
But if that Chairman managed to gain promotion then the fans would say he’s wonderful.

 

[Tunstall Fred]

I think there’s judgement and luck involved in every appointment.
On paper most of McCabes previous managerial appointments have been excellent but they’ve still not worked out.
The appointment of Wilder was the least ambitious appointment, going for the cheap option and it’s worked.

The issue that bugs me is that no one can give a definition of a great or poor Chairman. It seems to be solely based on finishing league position with promotion/ relegation being the biggest factors.

For example.
Let’s imagine 24 of the finest, most intelligent compassionate Chairman in the world, all managing a Championship club.
Nothing can prevent 3 clubs gaining promotion and 3 clubs gaining relegation.

You can bet that the supporters of the 3 relegated clubs will say they have a terrible Chairman, eventhough he’s done everything perfectly.

Also conversely a Chairman could be Adolf Hitler, treat fans with contempt and not have a clue about football
But if that Chairman managed to gain promotion then the fans would say he’s wonderful.

Old Adolf did have his bad points, but he knew how to organise a good rally, had a good eye for architecture and fashion, I would have had no qualms if he was our Chairman, one thing is for sure Bramall Lane would have been extended, North, South, East and West.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

Old Adolf did have his bad points, but he knew how to organise a good rally, had a good eye for architecture and fashion, I would have had no qualms if he was our Chairman, one thing is for sure Bramall Lane would have been extended, North, South, East and West.

We'd be a force in europe was well

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

I think there’s judgement and luck involved in every appointment.
On paper most of McCabes previous managerial appointments have been excellent but they’ve still not worked out.
The appointment of Wilder was the least ambitious appointment, going for the cheap option and it’s worked.

The issue that bugs me is that no one can give a definition of a great or poor Chairman. It seems to be solely based on finishing league position with promotion/ relegation being the biggest factors.

For example.
Let’s imagine 24 of the finest, most intelligent compassionate Chairman in the world, all managing a Championship club.
Nothing can prevent 3 clubs gaining promotion and 3 clubs gaining relegation.

You can bet that the supporters of the 3 relegated clubs will say they have a terrible Chairman, eventhough he’s done everything perfectly.

Also conversely a Chairman could be Adolf Hitler, treat fans with contempt and not have a clue about football
But if that Chairman managed to gain promotion then the fans would say he’s wonderful.

His decisions regarding Warnock and Robson was when the pin on the shit grenade got pulled, and it's taken the best part of 11 years & £100m to wipe the shit off the walls and ceiling, and get back to the moment just before it got pulled.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I think there’s judgement and luck involved in every appointment.
On paper most of McCabes previous managerial appointments have been excellent but they’ve still not worked out.
The appointment of Wilder was the least ambitious appointment, going for the cheap option and it’s worked.

The issue that bugs me is that no one can give a definition of a great or poor Chairman. It seems to be solely based on finishing league position with promotion/ relegation being the biggest factors.

For example.
Let’s imagine 24 of the finest, most intelligent compassionate Chairman in the world, all managing a Championship club.
Nothing can prevent 3 clubs gaining promotion and 3 clubs gaining relegation.

You can bet that the supporters of the 3 relegated clubs will say they have a terrible Chairman, eventhough he’s done everything perfectly.

Also conversely a Chairman could be Adolf Hitler, treat fans with contempt and not have a clue about football
But if that Chairman managed to gain promotion then the fans would say he’s wonderful.

McCabe makes a poor decision it's all his fault. Bad luck not allowed to come into it.

He gets something right, he's lucky.

 

[Sean Thornton]

His decisions regarding Warnock and Robson was when the pin on the shit grenade got pulled, and it's taken the best part of 11 years & £100m to wipe the shit off the walls and ceiling, and get back to the moment just before it got pulled.

Robson was a horrendous decision. Warnock was the right move. The bloke took his eye off the ball because a contract was more important to him than his "beloved" Blades.

 

[Balham]

Robson was a horrendous decision. Warnock was the right move. The bloke took his eye off the ball because a contract was more important to him than his "beloved" Blades.

In a way, you could say that McCabe was unlucky - it was obvious (to me at least) that Robson was a terrible appointment but never in my wildest dreams did I expect that it would start the domino effect that would lead through three seasons of Kevin "Semi Pro" Blackwell and a prolonged stint in the third division.

Had we appointed a decent manager to replace Warnock (who, let's face it, was deservedly released from his contract) then the last 10 years would have been wildly different. Fine margins and all that.

 

[blade too long]

Step down? Who would take his place? Who would cover the yearly losses?

cant let on , but the back of the new kop stands been redisigned

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

In a way, you could say that McCabe was unlucky - it was obvious (to me at least) that Robson was a terrible appointment but never in my wildest dreams did I expect that it would start the domino effect that would lead through three seasons of Kevin "Semi Pro" Blackwell and a prolonged stint in the third division.

Had we appointed a decent manager to replace Warnock (who, let's face it, was deservedly released from his contract) then the last 10 years would have been wildly different. Fine margins and all that.

I'd love to sit down with KM, pour him a malt & get him to loosen his tie and chat openly about what happened. No blame game, just honest chat. None of this stage managed fan forum nonsense. It was about ego & empire building. Around that time we went from being just a football club to a multi faceted business with football at it's core, and it's taken us all this time to come back around and my fear is that if/when we get promoted, the old urges will surface again.

 

[Davalon]

In a way, you could say that McCabe was unlucky - it was obvious (to me at least) that Robson was a terrible appointment but never in my wildest dreams did I expect that it would start the domino effect that would lead through three seasons of Kevin "Semi Pro" Blackwell and a prolonged stint in the third division.

Had we appointed a decent manager to replace Warnock (who, let's face it, was deservedly released from his contract) then the last 10 years would have been wildly different. Fine margins and all that.

Agree. After Robson, Blackwell seemed the sensible solution and it nearly worked. May even have got us up through the play offs that first season without key injuries at the back end.

That said I don't believe he'd have kept us up and I don't see him having been sacked the first season up.

Ironically it was the ridiculous timing of his sacking that really derailed us imho even though the parachute money had gone by then.

 

[Esablade]

I'm so glad I managed to get my picture taken with 'big' Kev on the night...if only he hadn't told me Brooks was off in the summer for £3 million!

What a cad!

 

[Rodders]

In theory he is £30m down, but he owes it to himself, how can he ever get the money back ? - remember we were in the 3rd Division

One way would be to get to the PL, but he cant get there he needs money, investment to get there, which is where the Prince came in

To attract the Prince he wrote that money off, thereby gaining investment, cash to help him support the Club

Yes, he gave up half the Football Club, in the 3rd division, and got £4m / year help from the Prince

The idea being to own half the Club in the PL, which would be a win for both guys

So McCabe puts £30m in, to get it back he:

Needs promotion to the PL, which needs investment

To add investment he brings in the Prince, but to attract the Prince, he writes the money off