In Conversation with Kevin McCabe (Octagon)

[Sean Thornton]

Yeah but don't you think the sales pitch went something like:

"You get half the club for nowt but put in a couple of million short-term, we piss this league, couple of years in the championship then you can cash in when we reach the promised land, what can possibly go wrong".

Sympathy I don't have either but you do get the feeling he went in with one eye shut and Kev pulled one over him.

Honestly I doubt it. He's no fool, the expectations just didn't work out.

 

[I should coco]

Yep, I agree its crackers, but there you are............

If you are worth several hundred million and you like footie, then it's not crackers though.

It is a punt on the big time if you can't afford £350m to buy NUFC or similar. I can't imagine that spunking £20m will have any impact at all on his standard of living or future prospects so I would'nt think he loses any sleep over it.

 

[I should coco]

but you do get the feeling he went in with one eye shut and Kev pulled one over him.

You obviously do.

The rest of us think the Prince is probably not quite as green as that. KM may have pulled the odd trick or too in his long career but he is not some third rate shyster. Still, that doesn't fit the agenda though, does it?

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

No idea Robbo. I no longer go to these events because they used to be full of hypocrites, sycophants ( yes, I know, the irony ) and drunken fucking idiot "bigger blades".

And that's just the board.

 

[snootyfenooty]

Still, that doesn't fit the agenda though, does it?

I think you're confusing "Agenda" with "Opinion".

 

[alcoblade]

I've seen United in many guises in my 60 years of support. For the time I've got left I would like the owners go all in and see where it takes us, but then again I've always been a risk taker.

Yes I’m a risk taker too, and would love for someone else to go all in with their hard earned cash.

 

[UnitedBlade]

It also means that KM put in £20m too. Probably about £19.999m more than you have put into the club.



He knew from the start he was 'investing' in the team and not assets. He had advisors and he did due diligence. Do you really think that KM told him he'd own London Bridge at the end of it all?

He has had a punt and so far it hasn't worked out. It may still or he may leave. I would expect his investment would be repayable on promotion to the PL (and only on that), so he may well break even in the end.

He is a grown up and came into the deal with his eyes open, but let's not miss another opportunity to put the boot into McCabe eh?

What concerns me now if the Prince can’t find much further money to invest is how is he bought out ? There can’t be much value in his stake as a mid table Championship club.

Maybe it’s some money now and a reward if new owners get us to the PL.

Doesn’t look like an easy negotiation to me. I hope we don’t get a stalemate with reduced investment as we’d struggle to cope in the division going forwards.

 

[Northyorksblade]

Watch this space.

But is it a watch this space, or a watch this space? In your humble opinion of course

 

[Espania blade]

I was always a bit surprised that the Prince put any money at all just to buy "on the field assets"
If I was investing (or buying the club) I would want all the assets, because that's where the real value is.
OK it would cost me several hundred million but at least I would have assets against my purchase, assets that if managed properly would grow in value and "keep on giving" where as just owning a bunch of players wouldn't be much of an investment.

On the other hand you might say "I have Brooks" (for instance) but you could never realise that "asset value" as it would weaken your investment vehicle (the team) or he might have a career threatening injury and be worth zero - all to risky!!
Any proper investor wants to see "asset value" or at the very least potential asset value.

 

[madeinsheffield]

Perhaps Kev told him about 'Europe in 5 years', we all fell for it!

 

[Harrisblade]

I was always a bit surprised that the Prince put any money at all just to buy "on the field assets"
If I was investing (or buying the club) I would want all the assets, because that's where the real value is.
OK it would cost me several hundred million but at least I would have assets against my purchase, assets that if managed properly would grow in value and "keep on giving" where as just owning a bunch of players wouldn't be much of an investment.

On the other hand you might say "I have Brooks" (for instance) but you could never realise that "asset value" as it would weaken your investment vehicle (the team) or he might have a career threatening injury and be worth zero - all to risky!!
Any proper investor wants to see "asset value" or at the very least potential asset value.

If your 'investment vehicle' were playing in the PL your assets may not add up to much but your share of income should make it worthwhile?

 

[Sean Thornton]

Perhaps Kev told him about 'Europe in 5 years', we all fell for it!

If you fell for it I have baby unicorns for sale.

 

[Worksop II]

If you fell for it I have baby unicorns for sale.

I still have a Garage full of Pitchforks which may be about to become hot items ...

 

[Sean Thornton]

I was always a bit surprised that the Prince put any money at all just to buy "on the field assets"
If I was investing (or buying the club) I would want all the assets, because that's where the real value is.
OK it would cost me several hundred million but at least I would have assets against my purchase, assets that if managed properly would grow in value and "keep on giving" where as just owning a bunch of players wouldn't be much of an investment.

On the other hand you might say "I have Brooks" (for instance) but you could never realise that "asset value" as it would weaken your investment vehicle (the team) or he might have a career threatening injury and be worth zero - all to risky!!
Any proper investor wants to see "asset value" or at the very least potential asset value.

How would owning half or all of the property assets weaken his investment? His other assets would be depleted by the cash payment.

Unlikely the property would have anywhere near the potential profit of PL membership. The manager and players get you there, not the stadium or training ground.

Heading towards £20m and he's not a "proper" investor. Really?

 

[Isar]

If you fell for it I have baby unicorns for sale.

Boys or girls? I would be interested in a couple.

 

[Deleted member 1486]

How would owning half or all of the property assets weaken his investment? His other assets would be depleted by the cash payment.

Unlikely the property would have anywhere near the potential profit of PL membership. The manager and players get you there, not the stadium or training ground.

Heading towards £20m and he's not a "proper" investor. Really?

He reportedly paid a £1 for his share. His 50% share in the club has to be worth at least £20 million doesn't it?

 

[Sean Thornton]

Boys or girls? I would be interested in a couple.

Your choice. We also have a boy that identifies as a girl.

These are British unicorns as well.......

 

[Sean Thornton]

He reportedly paid a £1 for his share. His 50% share in the club has to be worth at least £20 million doesn't it?

You think he's made a profit?

What about the rest of the money he' put into shares? Money that's gone covering losses?

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

How would owning half or all of the property assets weaken his investment? His other assets would be depleted by the cash payment.

Unlikely the property would have anywhere near the potential profit of PL membership. The manager and players get you there, not the stadium or training ground.

Heading towards £20m and he's not a "proper" investor. Really?

ST, you asked the question on another thread about the club's market value, and I appreciate there are a number of ways at arriving at it, all giving different figures, but what do think the value is for the whole lot, on field & off field assets included?

 

[Isar]

Your choice. We also have a boy that identifies as a girl.

These are British unicorns as well.......

Just waiting for Tony Soprono to confirm his card details, money will be along soon.

 

[mancunianblade]

One aspect of our low budget acquisitions in January is that the liabilities to an incoming consortium/billionaire suitor are peanuts. One or two top rated players cost and wages would buy and fund our whole squad. To get rid of them would be a meh decision if the buyers are rich enough.

If this threads implied rumour has any truth we (the fans) have got a Brexit type outcome to get used to (because we are not part of the decision making process). Are we in or out of the corporate football model? Are we a Wolves, Brighton, Watford etc (or potentially a Pigs, Dirty Leeds, Coventry) or are we a cottage industry club just surviving on the scraps of the best we can afford from the lower leagues hoping to find a gem that we can cash in on to cut the owners costs?

I've seen United in many guises in my 60 years of support. For the time I've got left I would like the owners go all in and see where it takes us, but then again I've always been a risk taker. In McCabe I believe if he sells he will try to maximise his investment but try and protect the club from a whim buyer or a reckless consortium. Whichever, I would be surprised if he sold and walked away which could be a good thing or a bad one. If he tries to retain to much control it could stifle any investment or progressive changes.

Then again, it could just be a bullsh*t rumour.

If and I assume he would, CW is allowed to keep full control of transfers then regardless of budget increases, he will always shop for value, I don't mean he has multi millions to spend and still buys players at 750k, I would love to see what CW, AK and the back room lads can do with a very competitive budget supported of course by a good scouting network. we may not be shipping gold out in all directions but at the minute things seem to be very well run, I can't see this changing if the coffers do swell. I don't actually know if I've replied to you here or just waffled on.

 

[Deleted member 1486]

You think he's made a profit?

Not yet. I'm just saying, if you paid a grand total of £20,000,001 for something that is worth £20,000,001, you're not down on your investment.

What about the rest of the money he' put into shares?

£1? On the grand scheme of things, I'm not sure he's bothered about that?

Money that's gone covering losses?

You're saying he spent an additional £20 million AFTER covering losses? Any proof of this? (where did it go?).

 

[Sean Thornton]

ST, you asked the question on another thread about the club's market value, and I appreciate there are a number of ways at arriving at it, all giving different figures, but what do think the value is for the whole lot, on field & off field assets included?

I have no idea. The real estate can be valued but until someone wants it, who knows the real value. A prospective purchaser us buying a dream as things stand. Goodwill if you like. It's not just buying a football club though, it's initially funding losses and rebuilding. You have to imagine the potential. That's the gamble.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Just waiting for Tony Soprono to confirm his card details, money will be along soon.

Excellent!

 

[Sean Thornton]

Not yet. I'm just saying, if you paid a grand total of £20,000,001 for something that is worth £20,000,001, you're not down on your investment.



£1? On the grand scheme of things, I'm not sure he's bothered about that?



You're saying he spent an additional £20 million AFTER covering losses? Any proof of this? (where did it go?).

The balance sheet says it's not worth £20m

Again the accounts show he's put money in for shares. He's not owed that, its not a loan, it's in shares.

No. I don't think I said that. What I said, maybe not clearly enough, is that the money he paid for his shares has been used by the club to cover losses.

 

[snootyfenooty]

I have no idea. The real estate can be valued but until someone wants it, who knows the real value. A prospective purchaser us buying a dream as things stand. Goodwill if you like. It's not just buying a football club though, it's initially funding losses and rebuilding. You have to imagine the potential. That's the gamble.

As you say the Goodwill factor could be anything. The problem that would arise with the sale of the club would be the intricacies involved. For example how would you value the prince's share of the proceeds when all he owns is 50% of an arbitrary goodwill figure. Then there is Kev's non-footballing real estate which would need extracting from the sale, or if included would any potential buyer be interested in it?

 

[Sean Thornton]

As you say the Goodwill factor could be anything. The problem that would arise with the sale of the club would be the intricacies involved. For example how would you value the prince's share of the proceeds when all he owns is 50% of an arbitrary goodwill figure. Then there is Kev's non-footballing real estate which would need extracting from the sale, or if included would any potential buyer be interested in it?

Think that would be just two separate deals. I think there are a few clubs these days who hold the property in a different company from the football club.
The goodwill would largely rest with the FC as you say.

 

[sheffielder]

I am no expert, but the I would imagine the club (minus the infrastructure) is worth probably around £30m. So that is £15m each. Now add the Kev owns the ground and infrastructure which let's say is worth £20m or even more if China town takes off, so guestimate £30m, then he has a £45m stake in the club.

If we are looking for investment then Kev (I hope I can call him Kev) has more rope to give. The next guy who comes in with equity could pay £257.5m to be an equal partner lock, stock and barrel.

Question is whether that is enough money to take us to the next level, or will both need to invest £20m each to get there. I don't think Kev has that money anymore on a personal level and there are doubts whether Sean Thornton and his bra will allow him to spend the company money to do that.

If not, the next step is going more down the Brentford style model where you do buy the best young players and allow Chris to do his magic. We have done that to a degree with the likes of Lundstram, Evans, O'Connell etc; but we need to move that to the next level.

Personally I am down this option as this can be maintained. The other options really is shit or bust. Wednesday's model is the most flawed ever done, but if Villa or Derby don't go up this year they could go pop. Next few years you could add Boro, Fulham, Leeds, Birmingham either financially or FFP. Their levels of investment can not be maintained and owners will start taking their balls home.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I am no expert, but the I would imagine the club (minus the infrastructure) is worth probably around £30m. So that is £15m each. Now add the Kev owns the ground and infrastructure which let's say is worth £20m or even more if China town takes off, so guestimate £30m, then he has a £45m stake in the club.

If we are looking for investment then Kev (I hope I can call him Kev) has more rope to give. The next guy who comes in with equity could pay £257.5m to be an equal partner lock, stock and barrel.

Question is whether that is enough money to take us to the next level, or will both need to invest £20m each to get there. I don't think Kev has that money anymore on a personal level and there are doubts whether Sean Thornton and his bra will allow him to spend the company money to do that.

If not, the next step is going more down the Brentford style model where you do buy the best young players and allow Chris to do his magic. We have done that to a degree with the likes of Lundstram, Evans, O'Connell etc; but we need to move that to the next level.

Personally I am down this option as this can be maintained. The other options really is shit or bust. Wednesday's model is the most flawed ever done, but if Villa or Derby don't go up this year they could go pop. Next few years you could add Boro, Fulham, Leeds, Birmingham either financially or FFP. Their levels of investment can not be maintained and owners will start taking their balls home.

£257.5 million?

 

[Worksop II]

£257.5 million?

Kevinomics