Stadium or squad.

[RaWW]

With news that the Kop is going to be re-done, and heard someone saying about maybe the SS being re-done too, where is this money coming from.

McCabe wants to hold international matches at BDTBL. In the event of the World cup being held over here he wants the ground to be used for matches.

So, with us not being able to afford any new players, how can we afford to do all the work on the stadium.

Is the West Ham money and all of our parachute payments paying for this??? Is Mccabe just a tight fisted ******* who's only concern is looking good and hosting international matches??

Now if we do the ground out to anywhere near 40K, what are we going to do with all the empty seats. We are going to be a laughing stock.

Surely we'd be better getting ourselves promoted first and making sure the squad is capable of sustaining a Prem place before we think about increasing the stadium capacity.

So I put it to you, what do you think is more important, building a bigger, better stadium, or getting more quality into the squad?

 

[Sensiblade]

Where has it been said officially that we can't afford players?

I believe the Stadium improvements are funded from the PLC (Lots of fingers in lots of pies) & the Squad from Player sales/merchandise/ticket sales. Thus one doesn't affect the other either way.

 

[matth]

Where has it been said officially that we can't afford players?

I believe the Stadium improvements are funded from the PLC (Lots of fingers in lots of pies) & the Squad from Player sales/merchandise/ticket sales. Thus one doesn't affect the other either way.

One could interpret the sale of James Beattie, with the associated statements from the board, as evidence that we can't afford certain players at least.

It could be asked where has it been said officially that stadium improvements are paid for by the PLC, and the squad from sales, merchandise and ticket sales?

 

[RaWW]

Where has it been said officially that we can't afford players?

I believe the Stadium improvements are funded from the PLC (Lots of fingers in lots of pies) & the Squad from Player sales/merchandise/ticket sales. Thus one doesn't affect the other either way.

As Matth said above. We sell BT, we are supposed to have a top quality striker lined up and we get a Division 4 striker.

We were also told that we had to sell players before we bought them. If that isn't clear enough then what is.

So are you fully expecting all the money we get (or a large proportion of it) to be spent on squad improvements.

My thinking is that McCabe is hoping we manage to huff and puff our way to the prem, saving him transfer money. He'll give another big speech about Europe in 5 yeras. Then we spend nothing improving the squad and get relegated again.

Sensi, you never answered the question, do you think we should be improving the stadium when A) we are not even a top flight club yet and B) we wouldn't have enough fans to fill it. We'd be at about 60% capacity. All you'll hear are drowned out echoes from the stands.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

In an ideal world you do both prudently according to the finances available. Of course you can always just blow the whole of it on buying players, but the transfer fee is the least of the costs there (as the Beattie transfer showed). The problem with that sort of strategy is that if it fails (and in most cases it does) you finish up like L**ds, Forest and the Grunters. Spend it all on the stadium and you end up with fantastic facilities but total crap on the pitch (Boro, Sunderland and Newcastle spring to mind). At least with the stadium/ground in top order you have the basis from which to grow (here's where Wimbledon failed) and develop on the field. Although development is not cheap, the most expensive costs for any professional club is the salary of players.

The last thing anybody associated with BDTBL would want is the same situation as S6. Blow the budget on players, club ends up in loads and loads of debt, spending bugger all on the ground and finishing up with nothing on the pitch playing-wise and a derelict dump from which to watch it.

Give me the McCabe way anytime.

 

[Linz]

Again, for anyone interested in what pays for what... instead of relying on conjecture, read the Annual Report.

It's here: http://www.sufc.co.uk/staticFiles/a2/2f/0,,10418~143266,00.pdf

 

[Vistoma]

Give me the McCabe way anytime.[/QUOTE]



Agree, I don't always like the way he does things but those of you of a certain age will remember the state of finances at BDTBL before he took the reins.

 

[MAQ]

Give me the McCabe way anytime.

Agree, I don't always like the way he does things but those of you of a certain age will remember the state of finances at BDTBL before he took the reins.

Couldnt agree more with these two posts.

I take on board the worries and concernes regarding this whole issue, but one thing that doesnt seem to have been recalled (And i shall not declare that i am correct and all those differing from my veiw can be damned to HECK!!!) is that when the whole BT sale came about it was mentioned (and i believe that a statement was issued) that as the club could not guarantee what league we would be in next season, and the parachute payments would be ending at the end of the current season, that needed to pre-empt the lack of finances that would be available should we remain in the championship, thus forcing the sale os said striker. That was the reason given for the sale and not the lack of funds available. So basically looking towards the future.

Granted if we do gain promotion back to the whiter than white league then i do think we will need to strengthen to remain there, and finances will be needed for this.

By the same account, i can fully see the need for the stadium expansion. Yes there is the potential of empty seats especially on the cold winter nights, however with the way in which promotions are offered by the club, i doubt that there will be as many empty seats as many fear. The main advantage of the additional capacity would be the advantage of the non league fixtures (Namely international) matches that could be played at BDTBL, especially should the coutry succeed in world cup/ euro championship award. The financial gains for the club would soon outway the initial expenditure and increase the clubs financial standing.

So im all for it!!!

 

[keenzy]

Agree, I don't always like the way he does things but those of you of a certain age will remember the state of finances at BDTBL before he took the reins.

selling our best players to pay the bills

to

selling our best player to save some money....

 

[RaWW]

Jesus, I think you've taken what I said completely the wrong way. Talking about emulating Leeds etc is not what I am talking about.

I haven't said I want us to spend loads of money on loads of players. I'm talking about making our squad stronger. You're telling me that you would preffer a half empty stadium to a midfield player who can actually play?

Also comparing our ground to Wimbledons, come on fella. It's not even anything like.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the stadium as it is now. In fact didn't it get voted best stadium for away fans in our promotion season. There is nothing that needs improving now. When we are in the prem, have stayed in there for a few seasons, we get full capacity every week, then you upgrade the stadium. McCabe wants to do it now so he can get internationals played at the lane. What good is that going to be for our team?

And before anyone else starts I'm not having a go at McCabe, I'm not saying I want him out or anything of the sorts, I think he's done a fantastic job for us, I just think that priorities are not in the right order.

Say we don't get promoted for another 5 seasons, are you all going to be so happy sitting in a 40K stadium with 20K fans there.

Also don't drop the old 'remember what it used to be like' line, it is not relevant at all now. We are not in a financial mess, we are nothing like we used to be, so why use it to compare against things that we want to do now.

 

[beightonblade]

Its easy..............McCabe is a property man 1st and a Blade 2nd.....the hard bit is coming to a conclusion whether or not that is a good or bad thing.

As far as Annual Reports go a 'good' one aint worth reading.

McCabes wealth/asset value has dropped by at least 40% over the last 6 months and most of the property and deals he is involved in are still falling in value. Very uncertain times.

The credit munch has mixed things up but i'm staying wi mi prediction McCabe won't be around much longer at BDTBL.
I would still like to know who ULTIMATELY owns BDTBL ?

 

[Linz]

Also don't drop the old 'remember what it used to be like' line, it is not relevant at all now. We are not in a financial mess, we are nothing like we used to be, so why use it to compare against things that we want to do now.

I think a lot of people are pointing out that we very easily could be. While steps are being taken to protect the club against stock market fluctuations (i.e. delisting etc.) the same amount of protection cannot be given for our investments.

A lot of our investments are tied up in the construction and property industry which is seeing a worldwide downturn so perhaps the club are looking towards secure investments whilst doing our little bit to revive the construction industry in the area?

Spending £X amount on improving the stadium and reducing the debts is probably seen as a safer bet than spending the same amount on players... as much as we fans would love the latter to happen.

 

[RaWW]

I think a lot of people are pointing out that we very easily could be. While steps are being taken to protect the club against stock market fluctuations (i.e. delisting etc.) the same amount of protection cannot be given for our investments.

A lot of our investments are tied up in the construction and property industry which is seeing a worldwide downturn so perhaps the club are looking towards secure investments whilst doing our little bit to revive the construction industry in the area?

Spending £X amount on improving the stadium and reducing the debts is probably seen as a safer bet than spending the same amount on players... as much as we fans would love the latter to happen.

If it is as bad as it could be, then why are we even spending money on something that doesn't need doing. I'm not being argumentative on purpose, I really don't see how improving the stadium is going to be benificial for us right now. I'm only talking about a couple of players, especially as we are now back to using Monty in MF, the MF problem is still there from 3 years ago.

Increasing stadium capacity whilst still in this division and still with the squad we have is not going to be benificial in the long run for us. Getting a squad together that can sustain a Prem place is going to be financially better off for us in the long run.

It's OK if we get promotion this year, but unless we spend on the squad we are only going to be there for 1 season. Hey, maybe I'm totally wrong, maybe McCabe has a master plan, maybe he's trying to get us promoted on the least amount of money possible as he's saving a huge pot of money for us to spend when/if we get promoted...........You never know, stranger things have happened.

 

[matth]

Also, what's going to happen to all the ST holders in the Kop while it's being rebuilt? I can't see that it's the kind of thing that's going to be completed over the summer.

We've all seen what Swillsborough's like, being about half full - I'd hate that to happen to our ground for the sake of having a few international matches there (that we probably wouldn't be able to get tickets for anyway).

I'm not for one minute suggesting we should go for broke and sign every Tom, Dick and Harry on outrageous wages to try and guarantee success. That would be foolhardy. But in a similar vein, I fail to see how redeveloping the ground at this moment in time is going to enhance the fortunes of the club.

As it is, we currently fill 79% of the ground on average. If we make it bigger and fail to gain promotion, it's a fair assumption that we'll have fewer fans in a larger stadium. Even if we maintain our current attendance, in a 40,000 seat stadium that would equate to approximately 62% - which is poor at best. I can't see how this would be of benefit to anyone at all, other than the company that wins the contract for the redevelopment.

 

[Linz]

I really don't see how improving the stadium is going to be benificial for us right now.

But that's the thing... McCabe doesn't just have to look at what is going to be beneficial in the short-term, he has to think long-term too.

He could spend money on a player who fails to deliver the goods (what were people saying about paying "anything" for Brian Howard before Christmas for example?). By the same token, he could spend money on a player to get us promoted but who is totally ineffective in the Premiership (look at Halford when he got to Reading for example).

Or he could spend money on increasing the capacity, thinking that an increased capacity will improve the revenue stream from ticket sales and ground usage. It might not work, but even if it doesn't, we'll have a better ground to show for it.

If the squad doesn't work, then we're stuck with more players we don't need in this division.

I'm not saying either is right, but I'm yet to see any announcement on what will be available come the close of the season with regards to player transfers. So unless you know something I don't, whatever we're discussing is rumour and hearsay?

Who says it has to be squad or stadium? Can't it be both?

 

[Foxy]

I'm only talking about a couple of players, especially as we are now back to using Monty in MF, the MF problem is still there from 3 years ago.

In a MF that currently has us in the playoffs with an outside chance of automatic? We can't currently strengthen this, that's not to say it won't be before the stadium improvements have begun.

Increasing stadium capacity whilst still in this division and still with the squad we have is not going to be benificial in the long run for us. Getting a squad together that can sustain a Prem place is going to be financially better off for us in the long run.

Is there a good time? say we get promoted and return to sell out crowds... Just where do we seat the people that would have been on the Kop whilst redeveloping it?

Hey, maybe I'm totally wrong, maybe McCabe has a master plan, maybe he's trying to get us promoted on the least amount of money possible as he's saving a huge pot of money for us to spend when/if we get promoted...........You never know, stranger things have happened.

Just the very fact with have a chance of promotion and have had a recent season in the Premier is thanks to McCabes plan, despite the odd hiccup (Robson etc) I still trust him to do what is best for the Blades.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

... Getting a squad together that can sustain a Prem place is going to be financially better off for us in the long run....

QUOTE]


Unfortunately, that is the most expensive part of this whole exercise, not the ground redevelopment, not even the transfer fees, but the salary costs of a squad capable of staying in the PL. And this division and the one below has a few clubs still licking their financial wounds having attempted it. Given the crowds we attracted last time we were there, a moderate increase in crowds could see us average 35,000 given the capacity. That extra revenue would pay for 2 or 3 months of a Beattie and we might need 3 or 4 of those.

Personally I would've been happy with a new roof on the kop just to get rid of the two poles, but whatever, with the news coming out of Southampton, Portsmouth and few others; I'd be happy with the Blades being over-cautious and still being around in 5 years.

 

[Foxy]

with the news coming out of Southampton, Portsmouth and few others; I'd be happy with the Blades being over-cautious and still being around in 5 years.

As predicted by Mr McCabe before the "credit crunch" and "recession"...

"I'd say we've got three to five years of very difficult times before we end up with a new normality. Whether that 'new normality' is what we've been used to, personally I very much doubt. There's a reorganisation of UK society and businesses, so - tough times."

 

[tenerifeblade]

The improvements to BDTBL are not just for increased seating. They include improved facilities for supporters, Offices, additional Community amenities, a new Enterprise Centre and Student and Residential accommodation. Therefore improvements for our fans and another income stream for the medium to long term. All in all it makes me much prouder to be a Sheffield United supporter, especially in relation to the scum across the City, than I was before Kevin McCabe took over the reins.

 

[Vistoma]

The improvements to BDTBL are not just for increased seating. They include improved facilities for supporters, Offices, additional Community amenities, a new Enterprise Centre and Student and Residential accommodation. Therefore improvements for our fans and another income stream for the medium to long term. All in all it makes me much prouder to be a Sheffield United supporter, especially in relation to the scum across the City, than I was before Kevin McCabe took over the reins.

A good point as the Lane is virtually unused apart from one saturday and one tues/weds a fortnight and not at all in the summer. Its important to get an income stream the rest of the time. Conferences/exhibitions/concerts etc etc will all help.
Someone said drop the old time line, thats all very well and its their opinion, BUT IMO if we don't look back and see our mistakes we will make them again.

Much better where we are than where the BAWS are?

 

[matth]

Offices? Have you seen how many vacant offices there are in Sheffield recently? None of these are guaranteed income streams.

 

[tenerifeblade]

Offices? Have you seen how many vacant offices there are in Sheffield recently? None of these are guaranteed income streams.

Spending a small fortune on a couple of footballers doesnt guarantee promotion, either. The Offices at our Enterprise Centre are making a profit so why shouldnt a new Enterprise Centre do the same? Nothings guaranteed in Life but I am sure McCabe has done his sums. Extra Real Estate will only add value to our Portfolio, in any case.
The Blades own valuable Land in a City Centre location so lets get it used in a positive attempt to increase our income. Surely there is nothing wrong with that?

 

[matth]

I'm not saying they would. I'm advocating not doing either for the time being.

 

[Sensiblade]

Spending a small fortune on a couple of footballers doesnt guarantee promotion, either. The Offices at our Enterprise Centre are making a profit so why shouldnt a new Enterprise Centre do the same? Nothings guaranteed in Life but I am sure McCabe has done his sums. Extra Real Estate will only add value to our Portfolio, in any case.
The Blades own valuable Land in a City Centre location so lets get it used in a positive attempt to increase our income. Surely there is nothing wrong with that?

The student flats that they have planned are pretty much a guarenteed earner and the enterprise centres are set up to offer cheap office space for small businesses rather than the extortionate prices some office blocks will charge.

 

[Linz]

I'm advocating not doing either for the time being.

The thing is, if we have got a big pot of money just sat there... it's neither use nor ornament.

It isn't going to be getting any interest!

 

[matth]

The thing is, if we have got a big pot of money just sat there... it's neither use nor ornament.

It isn't going to be getting any interest!

What do you think your name is, Gordon Brown?

There's nothing wrong with saving it and then using it in the future if we need to. At the moment, we don't. We've got a good quality stadium that gets over three-quarters filled every match. We've got a squad that, whilst not in any way awe-inspiring, is doing a decent job in the Championship. It'd be terrible to spend the money on something like expanding the stadium and then three years down the line realise that we're financially knackered and have nothing in the bank to bail us out.

 

[matth]

The student flats that they have planned are pretty much a guarenteed earner and the enterprise centres are set up to offer cheap office space for small businesses rather than the extortionate prices some office blocks will charge.

Unless of course either the number of student flats in the city reaches saturation point, or people defer coming to university because they can't afford it at the moment.

The only thing that's guaranteed is that nothing is guaranteed. Any kind of construction in this climate is a risk.

 

[tenerifeblade]

Hopefully, by the time the Offices and Flats are built, we will be coming out of the Recession.
And if England do get the World Cup I would be pig sick if Lxxds got picked and not us due to lack of guts and ambition.

 

[GrayBlade]

I think that McCabe is doing it the right way and by developing the ground, he’s building the foundations of a bigger and better United on and of the pitch and not going for a quick fix to please some fans.

Many clubs never had anything like the support they have now until they developed their own stadium or they moved into a new one and they then built up a whole new fan base which is vital to compete and provide a decent income stream long term to buy new players. I wasn’t too happy the way McCabe handled the Beattie affair but that apart, I trust him as much as any Chairman we’ve had to see us through difficult financial times and keep moving us forward long term.

Another thing that makes me realise just how for ahead of the game he is was this interview from the BBC website.

Radio Sheffield interview with Seth Bennet July 2008

"I'd say we've got three to five years of very difficult times before we end up with a new normality. Whether that 'new normality' is what we've been used to, personally I very much doubt. There's a reorganisation of UK society and businesses, so - tough times."

McCabe was warning fans 9 months ago about a global situation that that football wuoldn't be immune from, and yet many clubs it seems have only got around to acknowledging the seriousness of the problem in the last 2 or 3 months. He also "separated" football from the other core businesses and cleared a massive chunk of the external debt to protect the club around the same time.

I say hat’s off to the guy, and that we'll probably reallise just what a good job he's doing for us sooner rather then later when several clubs of our ilk go to the wall in the next 12 months.

 

[RaWW]

What do you think your name is, Gordon Brown?

There's nothing wrong with saving it and then using it in the future if we need to. At the moment, we don't. We've got a good quality stadium that gets over three-quarters filled every match. We've got a squad that, whilst not in any way awe-inspiring, is doing a decent job in the Championship. It'd be terrible to spend the money on something like expanding the stadium and then three years down the line realise that we're financially knackered and have nothing in the bank to bail us out.

Exactly what I was going to say.

Why are most replies here sounding contradictive to me.

On one hand you have, we don't want to be spending our money on players due to the financial crisis, then on the other, but it's OK to spend money on a stadium that doesn't need any work doing to it. I don't understand the logic in that. It may bring in more money IF we get promoted and IF we manage to stay there. On this basis then should every team in the promotion race right now start redeveloping their grounds?

Look at Man U, they increased the size of Old Trafford when they had already got people who had bought season tickets for there.

We are making a bigger stadium for phantom fans, no-one is going to fill them. We didn't even hit full attendance for the pig match.

IMO, all that needs to be done (as already said) is to replace the Kop roof removing the pillars.

And just because I said we'd be better off getting new players, why does everyone automatically assume I mean I want us to spend all our money, and end up going bankrupt.

Fact is that this league again is very mediocre, there are not really any quality teams. Just not bad ones doing well. We are a very mediocre team, we don't have any special players, just players who work hard and are getting results. Our MF may be a MF that is in with a chance of an auto place, but lets be honest, it's still a bit bab.

I think that McCabe is doing it the right way and by developing the ground, he’s building the foundations of a bigger and better United on and of the pitch and not going for a quick fix to please some fans.

So a bigger stadium will automatically make us a better team. Why can't people understand that to have a big following In the ground, you have to have a good team on the field. I'm starting to think we have a majority prawn sarnie brigade. As long as the stadium is great, I have a comfy seat to sit on, I don't mind how we perform on the pitch. Not one of the replies on here (barring Matt) has made any attempt to make a point of us improving on the pitch, if you're more concerned about the clubs image and stadium status over how we develop ON the field then.....well, lets just say I'm a bit dissapointed.

I would rather watch Utd play at Kenilworth Road with a good prem team than watch them at a 1/4 full Old Trafford in the Champs.

Ask yourself, do you come to BDTBL to see the sights or to watch a football match.