New view of Lane re-development

[Sheffsteel]

If the problem is rake, leg room, pillars and facilities on the kop, and realistically the earth mound can't be moved, how about this (String, turn your eyes away now):

Why don't we build over the existing structure, remove the current concrete terrace and build a new structure on steel frame at a sensible rake and with better leg room. AND extend at the back to increase capacity and improve the facilities.

I'm no architect mind......

Sounds a decent idea but extending further back gives us 3K more seats.

Creating more leg room loses 1.5K of those seats. So your idea is to increase the building costs and with a capacity increase to only 1.5K it will take much much longer to see a return on the investemenf.

Looking at the business plan It’s a non starter.

 

[vorpal blade]

Dear Lord Snooty,

One hates to be coarse but piles dear boy, you build the new structure on 'chalfonts' driven right through to bearing strata in the original earth.

 

[BushBlade]

It's because the existing rubble heap wouldn't serve as a suitable foundation for any structure built on it.

It wouldn't have to if its on a steel frame. Not sure how much that would cost though and whether or not you could pile through the heap.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Yeah you could technically bro, but I think to keep cost acceptable adding the extra seats at the Kop back/top is the right way to go, simply on cost. You have to remove the columns of course which means quite a bit of roof strengthening work on new trusses etc. Id have thought that would be a significant cost in its own right and a big sight line improvement which may negate the legroom issue for many anyway if given the choice....At the end of the day even on the South Stand the legroom is a bit tight for anybody over 6' (but reasonable).

the bit that annoys me the most is not the seats, but the downright stupid catering arrangements, condiments 'looks like a bombs hit em' stations and the totally bonkers process of buying a drink. Quick fix answer, have those guys stationed around (outside on the stand approach 'ramps' for example) with draught beer packs on their backs like you get at the horse racing / gigs etc,....remove congestion get people served quicker......but caterings another story altogether...

Agree catering is often amateurishly poor.

We could do what I believe they do in German football. Everyone has a SUFC payment card with a phone app. You pay for your drinks on a phone app, the caterers prepare all the drinks in the 1st half. Then at half time you show them proof and collect your order.

 

[snootyfenooty]

It wouldn't have to if its on a steel frame. Not sure how much that would cost though and whether or not you could pile through the heap.

The frame would be at the back of the kop for the extension, similar to the one at the south end where the rubble heap tapers off. The existing pillars are towards the front of the kop where the heap is quite shallow and the piles underneath them don't have far to go to find a stable footing. Anything's possible in civil engineering as per your suggestion but you have to reconcile this with cost.

 

[Jesus_was_a_Blade]

While there may come a time to increase the capacity of the stadium, I'm not too worried about it personally.
I think most of us would agree this current team are playing the best football of any United team in the past 10, 20, 30, 40 years? Possibly ever?

Yet we're still not getting close to selling out. If fans aren't wanting to come and watch this United side, but would want to come & see us play Chelsea or Man city next season if we get promoted, then they can only be described as plastic for me.

I'm not bothered about having these kind of fans at games. Let them complain when they can't get a ticket because they've only been to 10 games in the past 5 seasons & don't have enough points if/when we do sell out home games.

UTB

 

[Grizzly blade]

That’s it then.....roof and cladding off for last games of the season, seats all out in 2 days, concrete removed in 3 days, mound removed in a week. That gives them 2 months to get the main metal structure in place and a temporary stand at the front with 3000 seats in. Rest of it can be done back to front during the season.

Away tickets reduced to a thousand. We would manage for one season, and Kop could be done in that 12 months easily.

 

[mancunianblade]

Agree catering is often amateurishly poor.

We could do what I believe they do in German football. Everyone has a SUFC payment card with a phone app. You pay for your drinks on a phone app, the caterers prepare all the drinks in the 1st half. Then at half time you show them proof and collect your order.

Great idea in theory but using any form of 3G/4G reliant app within the ground will never work

 

[Bladesman]

Can't we just get taxpayers to pay for it somehow?

 

[Worksop II]

The stuff under the kop was dumped as a free tip over 100 ago and you can only imagine what went in there considering the environmental laws (or absence of them) of that day.

Rather than ignore it, or build over it, why isnt it cored drilled / sampled as to what exactly is in there.

If its safe, rock on, if not safe the owner can clean it up

 

[I should coco]

Can't we just get taxpayers to pay for it somehow?

And break an established FA rule by moving into little Orient's patch and shafting them too?

A new shit show featuring not-ex Blades:
"Sir Trev'll fix it"

 

[snootyfenooty]

Rather than ignore it, or build over it, why isnt it cored drilled / sampled as to what exactly is in there.

It's pretty certain they have. Sometimes it's better to let sleeping dogs lie.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Great idea in theory but using any form of 3G/4G reliant app within the ground will never work

Ha ha yeh forgot about that.

I’ve sat in most parts of the ground and the 4G and 3G internet reception is very hit and miss.
Even when it works it’s usually very slow.

Wonder if the technologies there yet to have wi-if around the ground with 20,000 using the signal at the same time?

 

[Blade for Sale]

You're 100% right. I've gone through this in previous threads and it's not just the cost involved in disposing of hazardous waste (which is what the rubble heap under the kop is made up of) but also getting a landfill operator to accept it.

I've got an image on my head of 10,000 Blades slowly shuffling pockets full of earth out of the bottom of their trousers on their way home from the match....

 

[blade too long]

You're 100% right. I've gone through this in previous threads and it's not just the cost involved in disposing of hazardous waste (which is what the rubble heap under the kop is made up of) but also getting a landfill operator to accept it. Also consider the excavation process - every time something dodgy was unearthed then work would be halted and the whole area would be quarantined, match days included. If the excavation was ever completed then there would be another stagnation period whilst the site was cleaned up. It would take fucking years.

The extension at the back is the only option. The stuff under the kop was dumped as a free tip over 100 ago and you can only imagine what went in there considering the environmental laws (or absence of them) of that day. Better get used to them squashed knees chaps because what we've got is here to stay.

Aston VIlla removed a larger mound in under 2 months to rebuild the Holt end
Never heard such claptrap. So we or any club or large scale building project can ever take place because of unexploded bombs . Is that why Meadowhall was never built.....oh hang on

 

[snootyfenooty]

I've got an image on my head of 10,000 Blades slowly shuffling pockets full of earth out of the bottom of their trousers on their way home from the match....

Nah, that's what the pigs will be doing in January - praying for the Great Escape from relegation.

 

[Worksop II]

I've got an image on my head of 10,000 Blades slowly shuffling pockets full of earth out of the bottom of their trousers on their way home from the match....

It couldn't be a night match .... we'ed all be glowing in the dark

 

[Boxer Blade]

While there may come a time to increase the capacity of the stadium, I'm not too worried about it personally.
I think most of us would agree this current team are playing the best football of any United team in the past 10, 20, 30, 40 years? Possibly ever?

Yet we're still not getting close to selling out. If fans aren't wanting to come and watch this United side, but would want to come & see us play Chelsea or Man city next season if we get promoted, then they can only be described as plastic for me.

I'm not bothered about having these kind of fans at games. Let them complain when they can't get a ticket because they've only been to 10 games in the past 5 seasons & don't have enough points if/when we do sell out home games.

UTB

But our crowds are up and up quite a lot on where they were a few years ago, the more success we have tge more fans will want to be involved, also I want to attract the fans of tomorrow, the young who don't have an allegiance ( there are some) and the ever increasing students from around the world, a bigger and more modern stadium with better facilities will attract these people, also I wanted to take the opportunity to talk to Jesus

 

[Jesus_was_a_Blade]

But our crowds are up and up quite a lot on where they were a few years ago, the more success we have tge more fans will want to be involved, also I want to attract the fans of tomorrow, the young who don't have an allegiance ( there are some) and the ever increasing students from around the world, a bigger and more modern stadium with better facilities will attract these people, also I wanted to take the opportunity to talk to Jesus

Fair point I suppose, definitely don't want to stop the next/younger generation from watching the Blades.
It's just the fair weather fans that annoy me.

There's only 1 messiah who can answer your prayers, and that would be Lord Wilder

 

[Boxer Blade]

Fair point I suppose, definitely don't want to stop the next/younger generation from watching the Blades.
It's just the fair weather fans that annoy me.

There's only 1 messiah who can answer your prayers, and that would be Lord Wilder

Cheers J,

 

[snootyfenooty]

Aston VIlla removed a larger mound in under 2 months to rebuild the Holt end
Never heard such claptrap. So we or any club or large scale building project can ever take place because of unexploded bombs . Is that why Meadowhall was never built.....oh hang on

The Holte End was redeveloped over 20 years ago before landfill charges were invented and before environmental issues were taken seriously. Meadowhell cost some serious money. As I said before, anything's possible but you have to weigh up the cost vs return. A prime example is Old Trafford's railway side of the ground. They could complete the symmetry of the ground by cantilevering that stand over the railway line or by building it on big fuck-off columns on the other side of the track. But they haven't done as even with a club of their resources it doesn't make financial sense even though they could guarantee filling it.

 

[blade too long]

The Holte End was redeveloped over 20 years ago before landfill charges were invented and before environmental issues were taken seriously. Meadowhell cost some serious money. As I said before, anything's possible but you have to weigh up the cost vs return. A prime example is Old Trafford's railway side of the ground. They could complete the symmetry of the ground by cantilevering that stand over the railway line or by building it on big fuck-off columns on the other side of the track. But they haven't done as even with a club of their resources it doesn't make financial sense even though they could guarantee filling it.

But we are not straddling anything. It's our land . I watch larger earth moving jobs in Spain all the time as they dig down 20 metres through rocks to put in underground car parks. Removing our mound carries very little health hazard as it can't be hazardous as no hazardous waste was used in its construction. The chances of finding 30 or 40 unexploded bombs being there are extremely unlikely . The ground was hit on John street and they found nothing under the pitch laying the under soil heating and desso

 

[bornablade]

Unexploded bombs on the kop and SYP have kittens over a few flares and pyros.

I'm moving to the South Stand.

 

[snootyfenooty]

But we are not straddling anything. It's our land . I watch larger earth moving jobs in Spain all the time as they dig down 20 metres through rocks to put in underground car parks. Removing our mound carries very little health hazard as it can't be hazardous as no hazardous waste was used in its construction. The chances of finding 30 or 40 unexploded bombs being there are extremely unlikely . The ground was hit on John street and they found nothing under the pitch laying the under soil heating and desso

How do you know no hazardous waste was used in its construction. It was over 100 years ago. Bombs are unlikely and have nothing to do with it. Hazardous waste is likely to consist of heavy metals, tar, asbestos, hydrocarbons and other nasties of the day. You may have seen some muck shifting in Spain but I worked for over 40 years in the industry in the UK and various other parts of the world. I know what I'm talking about (for a change).

 

[blade too long]

Well telĺ me a more hazardous area than the Emirates was built on former has and chemical plant. Arsenal did EVerton another ex industrial dock site being used for a big stadium . Why would ours be any more dangerous than sites like these.

 

[snootyfenooty]

Emirates cost nearly £0.5 billion when you factor in cost of the surrounding infrastructure.

To extend the kop would cost about £5m and takes about a year to build. A new kop would cost about £20m and take possibly 2-3 years with the environmental considerations. A new kop, although bigger in size, would have bigger seat spacing, wider access gangways and exit points, all in compliance with contemporary H&S legislation. The net gain in seats would be approximately zero as a result. You do the maths.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Well telĺ me a more hazardous area than the Emirates was built on former has and chemical plant. Arsenal did EVerton another ex industrial dock site being used for a big stadium . Why would ours be any more dangerous than sites like these.

The Emirates was built on land occupied by a waste recycling plant and an industrial estate. Not a gas and chemical plant.

 

[ShockingBadBuy]

Emirates cost nearly £0.5 billion when you factor in cost of the surrounding infrastructure.

To extend the kop would cost about £5m and takes about a year to build. A new kop would cost about £20m and take possibly 2-3 years with the environmental considerations. A new kop, although bigger in size, would have bigger seat spacing, wider access gangways and exit points, all in compliance with contemporary H&S legislation. The net gain in seats would be approximately zero as a result. You do the maths.

Are these timescales legit ? 'Boro built the whole Riverside in 8 months, using 1990s technology.

Just asking, like.

 

[snootyfenooty]

Are these timescales legit ? 'Boro built the whole Riverside in 8 months, using 1990s technology.

Just asking, like.

No problem, happy to oblige. They didn't have to knock anything down first or have any potentially hazardous waste heaps to shift. The proposed extension to the kop would have to be staged to fit in with the football season otherwise that could be built a lot quicker on a blank canvas.

 

[Rusty view]

Unexploded bombs on the kop and SYP have kittens over a few flares and pyros.

I'm moving to the South Stand.

That’s cos the pyros will set the bombs off