Scouting infrastructure problems

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FMBlade1 said:
No-one is suggesting using Wikipedia so don't be facetious (knew the consensus wouldn't last and was too good to be true)

This takes time for sure, things should have been set in motion from 5pm on the 8th April. Its now 17th August, over four months that could have been spent getting things up and running. Yes it costs money but we were promised game changing investment, I can understand not wanting to blow huge fees on players but this set up is a no brainer.

We should have a good working knowledge of other leagues. How were Brentford able to sign Maupay?
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I was merely commenting on another post on this thread, saying a players stats on wiki were available so why didn't we sign him?

As for Brentford, don't know but Matthew Benham is a stats obsessive working much like Balham Blade was outlining above. How their scouting system works I'm not sure, but someone there has a good knowledge of the leagues in Europe and Benham has ownership of a club in Denmark, which sounds a bit McCabe-esque.
 

FMBlade1 said:
I've been looking more into this briefly and it just makes me even more annoyed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neal_Maupay

This player had a decent scoring record in the French second division last season. The stats are all available on Wikipedia. It took me 30 seconds to find them.

He signs for Brentford for just £1.6 million and has already scored twice in three games. At the age of 21 and a former French youth international he is likely to only get better.

Could we have scouted him before Brentford got him?

If not, why not?
If we could, why didn't we?
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Weren't you happy that we got Higdon from NEC Nijmegen ?
 
SouthEssexBlade said:
I was merely commenting on another post on this thread, saying a players stats on wiki were available so why didn't we sign him?

As for Brentford, don't know but Matthew Benham is a stats obsessive working much like Balham Blade was outlining above. How their scouting system works I'm not sure, but someone there has a good knowledge of the leagues in Europe and Benham has ownership of a club in Denmark, which sounds a bit McCabe-esque.
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I'd imagine most clubs are inundated with names of players "available" from all over the place.
 
There's 8 players that scored 15+ in the Spanish second division last season and 4 in the French second tier.

All would perhaps be cheap and worth a shout
 
Sean Thornton said:
What's the original budget ? Did it show a surplus?
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I don't know what the budget was, what I do know (indeed its public knowledge) is that we've spent peanuts compared to most clubs. I've stated many times that I don't want wads of cash thrown around, that said being too prudent can have its downsides as we are starting to see (I fear) We were promised game changing investment, if we can go in for a fancy new TV screen we can go into getting some decent scouting in place.

Harrisblade said:
Weren't you happy that we got Higdon from NEC Nijmegen ?
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Higdon scored two vital goals against MK Dons in our fantastic league cup run, so yes all things considered on balance I was glad we signed him. Obviously not a success, but know you're being facetious here. Are you saying that because one overseas player was a failure we shouldn't consider it again XD

Wards said:
Baki I believe.

I understand one of his initial targets was to set up something like has been discussed.
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Interesting to know, thanks, here's hoping someone else will come in to pick up the slack.
 
FMBlade1 said:
I don't know what the budget was, what I do know (indeed its public knowledge) is that we've spent peanuts compared to most clubs. I've stated many times that I don't want wads of cash thrown around, that said being too prudent can have its downsides as we are starting to see (I fear) We were promised game changing investment, if we can go in for a fancy new TV screen we can go into getting some decent scouting in place.



Higdon scored two vital goals against MK Dons in our fantastic league cup run, so yes all things considered on balance I was glad we signed him. Obviously not a success, but know you're being facetious here.
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Maybe one is the reason for the other?

TV screen = player lost.

New reception as well, probably stopped us getting Leonard:)


I actually think he's taking the piss.
 
Wards said:
Baki I believe.

I understand one of his initial targets was to set up something like has been discussed.
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But now he's gone, so could we actually be even further away than we were before? That better not be the case. It would be hideous timing.

I'd like to think we're looking to get something else in place but I won't hold my breath.
 
Ricky said:
But now he's gone, so could we actually be even further away than we were before? That better not be the case. It would be hideous timing.

I'd like to think we're looking to get something else in place but I won't hold my breath.
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Well we haven't seen any input so things are hardly worse are they?
 
Sean Thornton said:
The TV screen analogy wasn't daft then?
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One of the reasons that led to Brian Clough's departure at Derby County was that he was sick of the chairman spending money on luxury stadium accessories rather than investing in new players.

If we have the money to put a 6 figure amount into a TV screen, we should have money to put into scouting. If the TV means we don't have that money for scouting then yes I question that board's priorities.

I suspect its the former rather than latter, and as I said in the OP it appears poor strategy from the board rather than financial limitations.
 
Sean Thornton said:
Well we haven't seen any input so things are hardly worse are they?
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Hard to know isn't it, it's possible that the club just didn't act on anything he suggested and have decided his role was redundant as a result. If they have no intention of replacing his input then things could be worse.
 

FMBlade1 said:
I know its easy to cherry pick success stories but if you look at Jonathan Kodjia he scored 15 goals in 28 games for a mediocre Angers side in the French second division. Bristol City got him for around 3 million, an absolute steal and the rest is history, how much would it have cost to get a British player with the same scoring record?

Its apparent that because of the board's inaction we are unable to sign players such as these. Fantastic.
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Who's to say it's the boards actions FM? Maybe CW has said he's not interested in an overseas network - and if so I wouldn't want to be in a position where the board / owners still set something up and buy players the manager doesn't want. Just a thought ;)
 
him behind you said:
Who's to say it's the boards actions FM? Maybe CW has said he's not interested in an overseas network - and if so I wouldn't want to be in a position where the board / owners still set something up and buy players the manager doesn't want. Just a thought ;)
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The Tweet from the club from Kevin McCabe would indicate that it was, but I'll concede maybe Wilder did say to them that he doesn't have any interest in abroad (as is his right, but may not be right). Was anyone at the forum who can shed some more light on what was said perhaps?

No-one is suggesting that the board buys players for him, just to put the infrastructure in so should Wilder or indeed his successor(s) want/need to look elsewhere they are able to. We clearly aren't able to look overseas and its to our detriment.
 
Our manager had almost a blank canvas when he joined us just over 12 months ago. He had that fortunate/ challenging situation where numerous players' contracts were ending and he had the opportunity to clear the decks and bring in half a squad of his own men. I believe he chose his own Head Scout at the time and was delighted when Mitchell joined us.

At the time of Mitchell's appointment I feel sure he mentioned European coverage and his data base stretching over there.

In 2016 we appointed Chris Wilder and he is a certain type of manager who often says himself that he's 'old school'. As sure as night follows day our fans would always start questioning his credentials if we lost a couple of matches this season. The O.P. suggests the issue is a Board failing but fact is the manager has the set up exactly as he wants it. He said he was delighted with his budget and the way the club was structured and has never suggested otherwise since as far as I know.

We didn't appoint a German manager with knowledge of German league players, nor a Spanish one or a Portuguese one dare I mention. Personally I am glad we didn't, I like the S2 Blades unique approach of signing value for money proven players hungry to achieve at the new level. Keep signing value for money and it will all accumulate. Sign one supposed 'star player' who struggles to settle and everything is endangered.

Signing foreign players is always a risk. For the few that can be mentioned on this thread there have been vast fortunes totally wasted at many clubs over the years. We are not that flush that we can afford many failures and Wilder treats the cash as though it's his own.

Our experiment with sister foreign clubs yielded no obvious quality recruits though it did help Lowton to develop over there when he might not have done over here.

Again personally, I am disappointed Whiteman and Reed are not featuring for us this season but that's another fragment of the whole approach which was available to us. I appreciate not many, if any, agree with me on that point.

We are a club on the up. We are maybe 20 times stronger than we were 12 months ago. Only so much can be achieved in a short time period and gambles on foreign players do not fit the circumstances we are in. Maybe next season in the Championship we might think about it but something tells me a foreign player might not understand Wilder's culture which goes right through the club now.

KTF. We have 3 points from 3 games including two away games at current form clubs and favourites for honours this season. Remind yourself we are hoping to consolidate and improve, not run away with the league just yet. Spend a load o' money on a speculative foreign 'star' and risk increases. Sign three value for money, quality players instead and we will be better placed if say two of them do well.
 
FMBlade1 said:


This is something myself and a few others have been going on about for quite a while so I was glad someone brought this up at the fan's forum.

I am not glad however at the response which seems to be extremely shortsighted. The championship is full of players who have been brought in from overseas, they are able to do this because of the scouting infrastructure that they have. Why do we not have this as well?

Our strategy of lower league British players is all well and good but the market is getting more and more heated here, so now (which is why I bring this up) would have been a perfect time to look beyond into the foreign market to see what's available. Sadly it appears we can't do that because the board haven't got their act together.

Why aren't they acting on such scouting developments? We will need it eventually so what's stopping us going in anticipation of when we do? Most championship clubs have this yet as usual we are falling behind. I'm not usually one to criticize the board, but when we are struggling to bring in quality at the moment these sort of decisions will rightly get magnified.

Will be interested to interested to hear other's thoughts, and as usual would be delighted to be proved wrong on this

UTB
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There was something in place for as long as under Speed. Adams came in and changed the backroom staff around. After he left along with Bassett and his contacts we never rebuilt it. This was understandable as we were in the third tier, which is not a very attractive place to be for foreign players. I agree we must also look abroad now.
 
Bergen Blade said:
There was something in place for as long as under Speed. Adams came in and changed the backroom staff around. After he left along with Bassett and his contacts we never rebuilt it. This was understandable as we were in the third tier, which is not a very attractive place to be for foreign players. I agree we must also look abroad now.
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Adams was one of the worst manager's in our history so its no surprise to hear he burned our bridges in this regard as well.

Think Blackwell actually signed Calve, but like to have an excuse to look at that goal again
 
FMBlade1 said:
One of the reasons that led to Brian Clough's departure at Derby County was that he was sick of the chairman spending money on luxury stadium accessories rather than investing in new players.

If we have the money to put a 6 figure amount into a TV screen, we should have money to put into scouting. If the TV means we don't have that money for scouting then yes I question that board's priorities.

I suspect its the former rather than latter, and as I said in the OP it appears poor strategy from the board rather than financial limitations.
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What if the manager doesn't want to operate in that market? Has he done so to a large extent before?
 
him behind you said:
Who's to say it's the boards actions FM? Maybe CW has said he's not interested in an overseas network - and if so I wouldn't want to be in a position where the board / owners still set something up and buy players the manager doesn't want. Just a thought ;)
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Can you imagine the furore if CW said the board had bought someone he hadn't seen?
 
Sean Thornton said:
What if the manager doesn't want to operate in that market? Has he done so to a large extent before?
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So what? You still put the infrastructure in place. If a manager doesn't want to use youth players you don't just close down the academy.
 
Sean Thornton said:
Can you imagine the furore if CW said the board had bought someone he hadn't seen?
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This is pure trolling at its worst. Where has anyone suggested that the board should buy someone over the manager's head? Why can't we send scouts to actually see players abroad like other clubs do?
 
Is it a problem? I cant even be arsed to read the thread, but where had Wilder said he wants to be able to scout in Europe but isnt allowed?
 
Bergen Blade said:
There was something in place for as long as under Speed. Adams came in and changed the backroom staff around. After he left along with Bassett and his contacts we never rebuilt it. This was understandable as we were in the third tier, which is not a very attractive place to be for foreign players. I agree we must also look abroad now.
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Not sure what you mean. Speed was only manager five minutes. Blackwell decided not to take him originally. He could just have been a referral from his agent rather than from an overseas scouting network.
 
FMBlade1 said:
This is pure trolling at its worst. Where has anyone suggested that the board should buy someone over the manager's head? Why can't we send scouts to actually see players abroad like other clubs do?
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I was replying to another posters comment.

MONEY ffs. Can't you grasp that simple fact?

There will be plenty of agents from all over touting there players. If it's a conscious decision not to shop in that market, who do you think may have made that decision?
 
FMBlade1 said:
The Tweet from the club from Kevin McCabe would indicate that it was, but I'll concede maybe Wilder did say to them that he doesn't have any interest in abroad (as is his right, but may not be right). Was anyone at the forum who can shed some more light on what was said perhaps?

No-one is suggesting that the board buys players for him, just to put the infrastructure in so should Wilder or indeed his successor(s) want/need to look elsewhere they are able to. We clearly aren't able to look overseas and its to our detriment.
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Agree with your point about getting the infrastructure in place, but I always assumed it was the manager who put together his scouting network?
 
FMBlade1 said:


This is something myself and a few others have been going on about for quite a while so I was glad someone brought this up at the fan's forum.

I am not glad however at the response which seems to be extremely shortsighted. The championship is full of players who have been brought in from overseas, they are able to do this because of the scouting infrastructure that they have. Why do we not have this as well?

Our strategy of lower league British players is all well and good but the market is getting more and more heated here, so now (which is why I bring this up) would have been a perfect time to look beyond into the foreign market to see what's available. Sadly it appears we can't do that because the board haven't got their act together.

Why aren't they acting on such scouting developments? We will need it eventually so what's stopping us going in anticipation of when we do? Most championship clubs have this yet as usual we are falling behind. I'm not usually one to criticize the board, but when we are struggling to bring in quality at the moment these sort of decisions will rightly get magnified.

Will be interested to interested to hear other's thoughts, and as usual would be delighted to be proved wrong on this

UTB
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The club have said numerous times that we aren't in the business of loan players and that we are concentrating on finding talent from the lower leagues who we can buy either in contract or last year in contract or out of contract. Foreign players (to my knowledge) hasn't been mentioned at all as we have no network at all. We are in the market for L1/L2 players and we HAVE to operate in that market, probably due to losing LOTS and LOTS of cash (sorry not losing but funded by KM & Prince..........yes, someone else's money) for the past 6 years.

We will probably lose money this year and next year and the year after..............sorry, spend more of KM's and Prince's money as we try and establish ourselves.

You should cast your eye over to Barnsley - they came out of L1 with some decent players, had to sell them all (due to no benefactors prepared to fund large amounts) and are presently trawling the lower leagues for players too. This unfortunately is the market we are in also, but unlike Barnsley, we may hang on to our decent players and not have the first fire sale in the coming JTW. I believe Barnsley lost 1 before start of last season and 3 in the transfer window last January and 3 more this summer.

Having foreign scouts all over the world recommending players to us is something that the club needs to develop and no doubt we are behind all premier league clubs and the majority of Championship clubs - but this network will cost money, time, effort and staff - all of which we probably don't have.

As fans we need to have patience in CW & AK for a while yet (as well as the directors and board) as the club re-develops/re-invents itself.............dread to think of the meltdown if we actually lose to Barnsley on Saturday - the signs are showing already.

UTB
 

Ricky said:
Hard to know isn't it, it's possible that the club just didn't act on anything he suggested and have decided his role was redundant as a result. If they have no intention of replacing his input then things could be worse.
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Possibly, but we weren't paying him. Maybe Wilder isn't interested at the moment. Who knows? But we've got a new telly, and that's a bad thing, even if advertising revenue covers the cost :) .
 
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