Academy slowing up?

[Barney]

"Predictive text". Nailed on.

*epitome.

Technology, eh.

It's about the only time I've been able to announce you "correct".

 

[Barney]

Just on this point, is this a problem with United or with English football as a whole? We seem to have no confidence in ourselves and what football we should play - I can easily imagine we (and others no doubt) have brought through a bunch of smaller kids just due to the success of Barcelona/Spain over the last few years. Given Germany are now flavour of the month, I predict a bunch of big lads in the position where Reed, Calvert-Lewin are now.

I'd be extremely worried if our academy are looking at in form national sides to determine the height of the players.

 

[Sean Thornton]

*epitome.

Technology, eh.

It's about the only time I've been able to announce you "correct".

That's because you are generally clueless, not because I'm wrong.

Even your PT doesn't work correctly !

 

[jt64]

Funny how barny can't go more than 24 hours without making a thread after he left here

 

[robbiez666]

It’s difficult to assess when looking at a 3-4 year period. Let’s face it, the YC final team are still only 21 so it’s hard to say we should have had a load more come through since then. I think given the variable nature of player development, you’d need a bigger sample to say whether there has been a decline. You’d probably have to leave it another 5 years and see if anyone has broken in before we can assess the productivity. There have been lulls in the past. Whitehouse/Ward etc- big gap, then Woodhouse and Morris- Big gap- then Monty, Jags, Tonge- gap- then Quinn- gap- then Naughton, Walker and Lowton- gap- the YC final team.


It’s not like every year group produces a first team regular and for every Phil Jagielka we see plenty of Kingsley James, Ryan Mallon, Ben Doane, Adam Burley, John Reed, Matt Harriett, Ian Ross, Dominic Roma, Jonathan Forte, Nicky Law, Elliott Whitehouse, Nathaniel Foster, Evan Horwood, Kevan Hurst, Travis Binnion, Connor Brown etc. type players that for one reason or another, don’t make it.


For what it’s worth, I think we would have our next academy superstar on our hands (probably sold by now) if DdG hadn’t suffered that horrendous injury. Jamie McDonagh’s leg break will have certainly set him back too. We now have Reed and DCL who look very promising. Let’s hope they kick on.


My only concerns are


1. When players het to 17/18 and start getting involved with the senior squad, the standard we are playing at will not help their development as much as if we were in the top two tiers. Same goes for the players they are training with.


2. EPPP means that there is less financial value in producing players meaning we might scale back academy expenditure thus making us less productive.


3. There’s a pressure to get out of this league every season leading to managers going for experience much of the time and not giving these kids a chance to gain valuable first team experience. League 1 & 2 sides are less likely to loan players not getting in League 1 teams when they can go for championship youngsters. Ottis Khan looked very useful in his cameo v Rotherham and I was looking forward to seeing him as a regular on the bench in 2014/15 and hopefully forcing his way in but we signed JCR, Davies, Coutts etc on top of Flynn and Murphy which left him nowhere near.


4. A lot of our academy players do seem small. We seem to be looking for the next Xavi. I think it’s an admirable way to bring the youth through (focusing on skills over size and strength) but perhaps a better balance could be drawn to look for some raw athletes to mould like Kyle Walker.


5. The chopping and changing in management both in academy and first team level means there is less continuity in the way the players are being developed and this might hinder their progress.

I was really annoyed with Clough, Weir and Wilson as they all gave youth games pre-season and even early season then reverted to playing older players. I remember Harriot playing in the cup against Everton and then disappearing and youth seemed to get a bench spot or even a game, do ok and then disappear again for months.

 

[Liaminho9]

Crazy how things change.

In the past month, Sheffield United Academy graduates have achieved:

Winning goalscorer: U20 World Cup
(Dominic Calvert-Lewin)

Player of the tournament: U20 Toulon Tournament
(David Brooks)

England GK: U19 European Championship winners
(Aaron Ramsdale)

Worlds most expensive defender
(Kyle Walker)

 

[1889]

Not to mention its generated in the region of £6,500,000 in sell on fees and about £3,000,000 in transfer fees in the last six months.

I don't know why we bother, surely it's time to pull the plug

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Crazy how things change.

In the past month, Sheffield United Academy graduates have achieved:

Winning goalscorer: U20 World Cup
(Dominic Calvert-Lewin)

Player of the tournament: U20 Toulon Tournament
(David Brooks)

England GK: U19 European Championship winners
(Aaron Ramsdale)

Worlds most expensive defender
(Kyle Walker)

But 3/4 of 'em play for someone else.

 

[Liaminho9]

But 3/4 of 'em play for someone else.

True - but came through our Academy.

 

[FATTYFOULKE]

True - but came through our Academy.

...and generated revenue for our club.

 

[Borbokisfreekick]

Has anyone else noticed the difference in quality? Kyle Walker, Kyle Naughton, Jagielka, Matt Lowton, Harry Maguire, Quinn and Tongue to the point where the only academy graduates pushing for a place in the first eleven are the likes of Louis Reed.

The difference in quality is considerable. The players we're seemingly looking to bring through now are noticeably smaller and weaker. Louis Reed is the epiphany of that. Smaller, weaker, less talented. You'd have thought playing at a lower level would help the younger players come through. The academy's drop in performance levels are beginning to co-incide with that of the senior squad, and that's got to be unsettling.

Calvert Lewin (World Cup winning scorer), Harry Maguire (top flight center half), Aaron Ramsdale (top flight keeper and considered one of the brightest young keepers in the country). All came through our academy in the past 5 years and are in the premier league and we've made a susbtantional amount of money from them.

Add in Brooks who was voted player of the tournament for the under 20's in France this summer.

Not bad at all.

 

[Barney]

Fucking hell I do talk some shite at times.

 

[Oreyt]

Mrs Malaprop called, she wants her raisin debtor back.

 

[8lade]

Fucking hell I do talk some shite at times.

Not to worry after Brooks it's definitely slowed down this time!

 

[Silent Blade]

Crazy how things change.

In the past month, Sheffield United Academy graduates have achieved:

Winning goalscorer: U20 World Cup
(Dominic Calvert-Lewin)

Player of the tournament: U20 Toulon Tournament
(David Brooks)

England GK: U19 European Championship winners
(Aaron Ramsdale)

Worlds most expensive defender
(Kyle Walker)

I had said for years that our Academy would become a White Elephant but I now realise I was wrong. Time for me to eat the below

 

[8lade]

...although...the way compensation is worked out for young players out of contract, you could eventually be right.

 

[Barney]

I had said for years that our Academy would become a White Elephant but I now realise I was wrong. Time for me to eat the below

You'll have to find another one, I've already eaten it all

 

[Tyler Durden]

You'll have to find another one, I've already eaten it all

You got the Adkins thing right though. I was wrong, and I'm a twat

 

[nopigfansintown]

And it was already "well in profit" before the Adams, Ramsdale and DCL sales; and the Maguire and Walker sell on fees.

 

[Bert]

And it was already "well in profit" before the Adams, Ramsdale and DCL sales; and the Maguire and Walker sell on fees.

Adams?

 

[Nick Jansky]

Fucking hell I do talk some shite at times.

Yep.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Adams?

Fits in to the policy of buying players who have dropped out of elite academies (forest I think?) at advanced stages of development and bringing them to the Shirecliffe finishing school.They include scouring non league as part of this strategy - eg Ilkeston. Binnion and McCabe stated that this was part of the club's post EPPP policy. See also Ramsdale, Brooks, Whiteman, Smith, Norrington-Davies, Belehouan, Hirst, Bennett etc. The club is happy to pay fees to these clubs, in order to secure talent.

 

[SwissBlade]

...and generated revenue for our club.

Which has allowed us to pay off pay off no less than 8 managers since we sold Kyle Walker.

 

[SwissBlade]

Fucking hell I do talk some shite at times.

I wonder how many people would 'like' that post if they didn't have you on ignore

 

[John Street West Terrace]

Fits in to the policy of buying players who have dropped out of elite academies (forest I think?) at advanced stages of development and bringing them to the Shirecliffe finishing school.They include scouring non league as part of this strategy - eg Ilkeston. Binnion and McCabe stated that this was part of the club's post EPPP policy. See also Ramsdale, Brooks, Whiteman, Smith, Norrington-Davies, Belehouan, Hirst, Bennett etc. The club is happy to pay fees to these clubs, in order to secure talent.

Your spot on there , clubs like Man City and Chelsea have massive academies / squads & will sign youngsters just to stop other clubs signing them !
They can afford the gamble of producing just say for example 1 out of the 35 players in squad and discard the rest . Every parent wants to believe it's there kid that'll make the grade with the City's & Chelsea's so will plump for them when the smaller clubs also want to sign them .
We'll still find & produce our own players but they'll still be some good players that haven't made it or developed under other academies that we'll pick up like the Brooks's of this world , I've seen a lot of players locally who were late developers and come out of there shell at 19 /20 yrs old who at 16 looked a different player .

 

[I should coco]

And it was already "well in profit" before the Adams, Ramsdale and DCL sales; and the Maguire and Walker sell on fees.

Presumably because all the staff wages, player wages, scouting fees and running costs since 2001, were covered by the magic money tree?

 

[Houston_Blade]

You got the Adkins thing right though. I was wrong, and I'm a twat

I was advocating keeping Adkins just so we didn't have to pay another management team off, oh how I was wrong. Not sure whether I now dislike him more than I dislike Robson, at least Robson has the excuse of being constantly battered for the nonsense he came out with, Adkins was just an imbiber of management text books and the associated tripe within them.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Presumably because all the staff wages, player wages, scouting fees and running costs since 2001, were covered by the magic money tree?

Grants and player sales made the academy "well in profit". My above post was a direct quote from McCabe in May 16, and paraphrasing comments from Binnion re approach to new signings (I see evidence that this approach has been implemented) .The academy is also a first team hub, which means we don't have to build a unique first team facility - again, saving the club money. Or, you could say: the first team benefitting from grants and the overall profitability of the academy. Kyle Walker and Maguire add ons, if accurate, have just paid the running costs for another five years. It's the first team football part of the business losing the money.

 

[Pedro's Winger]

One or two decent prospects seem to be knocking around but in the last two or three years there hasn't been much in terms of youth product in the first team.
Nice to get a few million for Kyle and Harry over the summer but equally worth remembering how much those sales cost the club on the pitch.
If Brooks comes through, for example, you wonder if we'll go down the same line again.
The interesting one for me is DCL who looked very average for us. Couldn't see what Everton saw in him but obviously he now seems to be on the verge of the big time.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Presumably because all the staff wages, player wages, scouting fees and running costs since 2001, were covered by the magic money tree?

Break even at best otherwise the books would tell a different story.

Perhaps the next accounts might tell a different story but who knows?

Spend the money on the first team.