CONFIRMED Ryan Leonard

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Bladeinleeds said:
If this doesn't happen - and I'd say chances are that it won't now.

It should be used as a a counterpoint to every time - we 'can't possibly keep a player' who fancies a move up a level.

The player clearly fancies a move - but is being professional (as would 99% of all our squad)
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The player is going to move, hence not the slightest mention of the new contract Phil Orange was going to discuss with him. The only question is when. I still say before the end of August even if I risk RugRon's wrath (try that when you've had a couple...)
 
HoodedClaw said:
Weasel

I'm sorry I'm a bit confused, I've seen you mention that the board should give Wilder a few more £100K so that he can get the players that should make a difference to us. The bit I don't get is why you think that money isn't available now in the existing budget.

Wilder has said numerous times about players having a value. I'm assuming he's got one for RLand RH. His valuation must fall within the budget he's got otherwise no point in opening negotiations, I would think it's more likely to be his valuations that are having an impact on negotiations rather than the owners needing to give him a bit more cash.

Overall I get what you mean about investing to protect your investment, I just don't feel it's relevant to RL or RH bids in this instance.
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I think his point is along the lines of it doesn't quite stack up Chris thinks the value of a potential first teamer / player of the year at his current club / and at the right ages is less that £400k.

We arnt in the prem but that isn't the value of even l1 players anymore - if wilder genuinely thinks he's worth less than 400k we and that's all we can spend we should to move on now and focus on other target.

My opinion is all signs point to him being amongst our first choices - if he can be brought in for say 500-600k we should do it if we can afford it and the budget is fluid, so that he has a full preseason with us.

I see little point in us ending up with another Lavery where it's Christmas before he can contribute to the first team.
 
HoodedClaw said:
Weasel

I'm sorry I'm a bit confused, I've seen you mention that the board should give Wilder a few more £100K so that he can get the players that should make a difference to us. The bit I don't get is why you think that money isn't available now in the existing budget.

Wilder has said numerous times about players having a value. I'm assuming he's got one for RLand RH. His valuation must fall within the budget he's got otherwise no point in opening negotiations, I would think it's more likely to be his valuations that are having an impact on negotiations rather than the owners needing to give him a bit more cash.

Overall I get what you mean about investing to protect your investment, I just don't feel it's relevant to RL or RH bids in this instance.
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I did mention that I wasnt going to carry on with this debate as ive said all I want to say on the matter. Up to others whether they agree or not.

But as you have specifically asked me a question Mr Claw (top alias by the way as I was always routing for you when you tried doing in that annoying bint Penelope Pitstop only to be foiled by the anthill mob), I will gladly clarify (other posters please feel free to ignore the rest of my post below).

You may very well be correct in that CW already has enough in his existing budget to bring in Leonard and Holmes and any other first choice target that he wants. I havent got the foggiest what his budget is. So yes my point may very well not be relevant to who CW chooses to bring in this pre season.

My point was only ever made on a hypothetical situation i.e. IF it transpired that CW's working budget was a few grand light than what was necessary to bring in his first choice targets, then and only then does my point become applicable (or not as some would argue) in any shape or form.

In reality there's a good chance that the board will have given him a 'sizeable' working budget and he will be relatively happy with that. But like most managers he wold probably want a bit more if it was made available to him.

My point also has no relation to CW also not bring prepared to go above a certain valuation for a player whoever that may be. Thats his choice. I like CW's attitude in this scenario as I also want Utd to get top value for any outlay made and bang for their buck. Its quite refreshing after being taken to the cleaners by some of our previous incompetent managers who couldn't manage their way to opening Charlize Theron's legs even if she was as game as a pheasant.

In short, if CW doesnt want to spend above a certain amount and he misses out on that player because he wont go above that amount (and he could have done if had chosen to do so cos the money was there) then I'm OK with that as a fan because I trust CW's footballing judgement.

However hypothetically, if CW wanted to pay a bit more (in line with HIS valuation) to secure a player (whoever that may be) and his budget didn't quite stretch that far then I think the Board....oh...let's not go there again!!!

Hope that clarifies my view.
 
Weasel said:
I did mention that I wasnt going to carry on with this debate as ive said all I want to say on the matter. Up to others whether they agree or not.

But as you have specifically asked me a question Mr Claw (top alias by the way as I was always routing for you when you tried doing in that annoying bint Penelope Pitstop only to be foiled by the anthill mob), I will gladly clarify (other posters please feel free to ignore the rest of my post below).

You may very well be correct in that CW already has enough in his existing budget to bring in Leonard and Holmes and any other first choice target that he wants. I havent got the foggiest what his budget is. So yes my point may very well not be relevant to who CW chooses to bring in this pre season.

My point was only ever made on a hypothetical situation i.e. IF it transpired that CW's working budget was a few grand light than what was necessary to bring in his first choice targets, then and only then does my point become applicable (or not as some would argue) in any shape or form.

In reality there's a good chance that the board will have given him a 'sizeable' working budget and he will be relatively happy with that. But like most managers he wold probably want a bit more if it was made available to him.

My point also has no relation to CW also not bring prepared to go above a certain valuation for a player whoever that may be. Thats his choice. I like CW's attitude in this scenario as I also want Utd to get top value for any outlay made and bang for their buck. Its quite refreshing after being taken to the cleaners by some of our previous incompetent managers who couldn't manage their way to opening Charlize Theron's legs even if she was as game as a pheasant.

In short, if CW doesnt want to spend above a certain amount and he misses out on that player because he wont go above that amount (and he could have done if had chosen to do so cos the money was there) then I'm OK with that as a fan because I trust CW's footballing judgement.

However hypothetically, if CW wanted to pay a bit more (in line with HIS valuation) to secure a player (whoever that may be) and his budget didn't quite stretch that far then I think the Board....oh...let's not go there again!!!

Hope that clarifies my view.
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Thanks for the reply Weasel, much appreciated.

Have a like for making the effort :)
 
Bladeinleeds said:
I think his point is along the lines of it doesn't quite stack up Chris thinks the value of a potential first teamer / player of the year at his current club / and at the right ages is less that £400k.

We arnt in the prem but that isn't the value of even l1 players anymore - if wilder genuinely thinks he's worth less than 400k we and that's all we can spend we should to move on now and focus on other target.

My opinion is all signs point to him being amongst our first choices - if he can be brought in for say 500-600k we should do it if we can afford it and the budget is fluid, so that he has a full preseason with us.

I see little point in us ending up with another Lavery where it's Christmas before he can contribute to the first team.
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What makes you think that less than £400K is CW valuation?

Just because we have reportedly bid less than £400K doesn;t mean that's all we can spend. I happen to think it's a good tactic. Go in with a max valuation in mind, bid low giving you plenty of room to increase the bid. You make our interest known to the player get him a bit unsettled and with a bit of luck you get him for less than your (CW's) valuation... bargain.

As I put in my question to Weasel CW's valuation must be within our budget otherwise no point in bidding. As we still seem to be in the running I'm assuming the counter valuation from Southend hasn't made CW think he can't bring him here within budget.
 
HoodedClaw said:
What makes you think that less than £400K is CW valuation?

Just because we have reportedly bid less than £400K doesn;t mean that's all we can spend. I happen to think it's a good tactic. Go in with a max valuation in mind, bid low giving you plenty of room to increase the bid. You make our interest known to the player get him a bit unsettled and with a bit of luck you get him for less than your (CW's) valuation... bargain.

As I put in my question to Weasel CW's valuation must be within our budget otherwise no point in bidding. As we still seem to be in the running I'm assuming the counter valuation from Southend hasn't made CW think he can't bring him here within budget.
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Agree we don't want to get stitched up and should drive hard bargains.

But there comes a stage where you have to shit or get off the pot. If we (cw) think he's worth more than 400k and can add to the squad why aren't we completing the deal and having the player in for a full preseason. To me that makes perfect sense if we want to hit the ground running.

Imo we have to pay more than that for player of his performances/ reputation at Southend. If the budget is there all the more reason to get him in. The bid is obviously too low and they can't find a replacement for that price so may as well let him run down his contract
 
Bladeinleeds said:
Agree we don't want to get stitched up and should drive hard bargains.

But there comes a stage where you have to shit or get off the pot. If we (cw) think he's worth more than 400k and can add to the squad why aren't we completing the deal and having the player in for a full preseason. To me that makes perfect sense if we want to hit the ground running.

Imo we have to pay more than that for player of his performances/ reputation at Southend. If the budget is there all the more reason to get him in. The bid is obviously too low and they can't find a replacement for that price so may as well let him run down his contract
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The player doesn't want to do that. He wants to move. That's an important factor.

The bid is the highest any club is willing to make for the player. Time will tell whether it's enough for Southend in circumstances where the player clearly isn't going to sign a new deal with them.

I suspect Tufty has not yet made his final offer and we'll ultimately see a compromise. He certainly shouldn't just "pay them what they want" because a bunch of fans on a message board are anxious for a transfer.
 
Bladeinleeds said:
Agree we don't want to get stitched up and should drive hard bargains.

But there comes a stage where you have to shit or get off the pot. If we (cw) think he's worth more than 400k and can add to the squad why aren't we completing the deal and having the player in for a full preseason. To me that makes perfect sense if we want to hit the ground running.

Imo we have to pay more than that for player of his performances/ reputation at Southend. If the budget is there all the more reason to get him in. The bid is obviously too low and they can't find a replacement for that price so may as well let him run down his contract
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I would imagine we're not far off either shitting or getting off.

He may well be Southends player of the season, he's not made the PFA team of the season going back to 2010/11.

I'm not convinced that he is viewed as anything more than a squad player by CW, which to me explains why he's not rushed to pay what Southends Chairman is asking, but that's just my opinion.
 
I'm not too sure that anything that hitc comes out with should be taken too seriously. All they have done is repeat the Echo article of yesterday with their opinion tacked. Hundreds on Shrimperzone and on here have done the same. To my mind this still comes down to how much you chaps are prepared to offer. If Ron thinks it is enough then Lenny will go, if not, he starts the season with us. How much is enough? - I haven't a clue really, but it's more than the reported £350k so far obviously. Interestingly, the super smooth tanned one is making serious efforts to bring in Michael Kightly on a free from Burnley. If Brown is successful Michael will not come cheap on the wages front, so reluctantly I still don't think the Lenny deal is dead. It's a shame we didn't hang on to Kightly when he first started out with us and before stardom.
 
Rootshallbloke said:
I'm not too sure that anything that hitc comes out with should be taken too seriously. All they have done is repeat the Echo article of yesterday with their opinion tacked. Hundreds on Shrimperzone and on here have done the same. To my mind this still comes down to how much you chaps are prepared to offer. If Ron thinks it is enough then Lenny will go, if not, he starts the season with us. How much is enough? - I haven't a clue really, but it's more than the reported £350k so far obviously. Interestingly, the super smooth tanned one is making serious efforts to bring in Michael Kightly on a free from Burnley. If Brown is successful Michael will not come cheap on the wages front, so reluctantly I still don't think the Lenny deal is dead. It's a shame we didn't hang on to Kightly when he first started out with us and before stardom.
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Don't start with the 'shame we didn't hang onto...' stuff. This thread is already too long.
 

SteveBlade said:
Everyone knows you bankroll our club. Tight bastard.

BushBlade out.
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Well said SteveBlade. Sitting there in his Indonesian Bush pretending he isn't a billionaire and refusing the odd measly few hundred grand for Ron's hair needs.

To the car park lads, and shoes in the air time!
 
Blade58 said:
Leonard expects to stay at Southend


"I expect to stay but I’m not sure what’s going on," the 25-year-old told the Southend Echo.

"There's been a lot of speculation about a few different things but it's all out of my hands."


http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2017/07/0...d-sheffield-united-in-pursuit-of-long-term-t/
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I'm not sure this tells us anything new really does it?

All he's said is more or less what our old players have said....right up to the day we sold them. He's still a Southend player and he's always going to give 100%. He's hardly going to spout off and turn the Shrimpers fans against him just in case he does end up staying.
 
GrayBlade said:
I'm not sure this tells us anything new really does it?

All he's said is more or less what our old players have said....right up to the day we sold them. He's still a Southend player and he's always going to give 100%. He's hardly going to spout off and turn the Shrimpers fans against him just in case he does end up staying.
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There isn't anything new until the window closes and he's still at Southend or he moves elsewhere; us, Millwall, whomever.
 
Rootshallbloke said:
Absolutely bugger all, far too expensive. It's a Brown smoke screen whilst he's after someone we've never heard off.
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Why doesn't brown have a look at what we've got on the fringes of the 1st team.
You never know, could do a deal with RL comming this way. Nip in and have a word in his ear Rhb.:rolleyes:
 

Jonboy60 said:
Why doesn't brown have a look at what we've got on the fringes of the 1st team.
You never know, could do a deal with RL comming this way. Nip in and have a word in his ear Rhb.:rolleyes:
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I'd love to, but we speak totally different languages. His originates from South Shields, mine is pure Estuary Essex. We have tried, but now we just don't talk any more.
 
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