General transfers/rumours

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EEL was a big favourite with the fans. After we've let Southend and Charlton have our pants down should we pay whatever Wolves ask for? £2.5m has beeen suggested by one media outlet. Should we pay whatever the price for the whole squad?



I don't want EEL so £2.5 million is ridiculous

He is not a £2.5 million player in a million years

Holmes and Leonard are worth spending a few quid on though

Rumours are we have had bids of less than £500,000 turned down for Holmes and Leonard

I wouldn't sell either player for that amount either, last year of contract or not

Both teams will be hoping to push for promotion next season and it's worth the risk to keep their best players even if it means losing them for nothing rather than give them away for practicalky nothing now
 

I don't want EEL so £2.5 million is ridiculous

He is not a £2.5 million player in a million years

Holmes and Leonard are worth spending a few quid on though

Rumours are we have had bids of less than £500,000 turned down for Holmes and Leonard

I wouldn't sell either player for that amount either, last year of contract or not

Both teams will be hoping to push for promotion next season and it's worth the risk to keep their best players even if it means losing them for nothing rather than give them away for practicalky nothing now

How much have you seen of either of those two players to accurately judge just how much they're worth?
 
I don't want EEL so £2.5 million is ridiculous

He is not a £2.5 million player in a million years

Holmes and Leonard are worth spending a few quid on though

Rumours are we have had bids of less than £500,000 turned down for Holmes and Leonard

I wouldn't sell either player for that amount either, last year of contract or not

Both teams will be hoping to push for promotion next season and it's worth the risk to keep their best players even if it means losing them for nothing rather than give them away for practicalky nothing now

As you seem to put your football knowledge above the likes of Wilder, Knill and Mitchell, would you mind telling us which football clubs you have run?
 
As you seem to put your football knowledge above the likes of Wilder, Knill and Mitchell, would you mind telling us which football clubs you have run?


I've seen fuck all of either of them
Wilder rates them so that's good enough for me

Anyway that's enough about the subject

Good teams and clubs buy good players

Shit clubs don't

There's a good reason why we've been generally shitter than similar sized clubs over the last 50 years

Can't think what the reason could be
 
Carey thread post #7 but I guess you'll say Kevin Gage knows nowt also. Wake up and smell the coffee people, look at the evidence.

What if the evidence is that we turned him down mate
 
Yet you've been arguing for several pages that you know the players' valuation better than Wilder............
Eddie with all due respect you are missing the point....what he's arguing is that Wilders 'valuation' of these players is based on his budgetary constraints not how much they are 'worth'. It's just evidence that the 'championship investment' is pie in the sky as is McCabes 'plea' for more investors.
 
Eddie with all due respect you are missing the point....what he's arguing is that Wilders 'valuation' of these players is based on his budgetary constraints not how much they are 'worth'. It's just evidence that the 'championship investment' is pie in the sky as is McCabes 'plea' for more investors.


Thank you
At last somebody with a brain
 
I actually agree with JJ on this.

Yes, I don't want CW to overpay on anyone and in an ideal world he will only pay the amount that he thinks the player is worth (or less ideally). However, there will be times / targets when we may have to go above the 'player valuation' to get the player in question IF we think that that player will enhance us on the pitch.

Obviously I don't know the finer details of any transfer negotiations between Utd and the target players parent club, but if media and rumours are to be believed then we arent a million miles apart in valuations. If we have to pay an extra £200k for example to get a deal done for a player CW clearly would like, then for me we should pay it. People need to realise that we are now trying to compete in the championship again and we are back with clubs who wouldnt think twice about paying the fees which we are looking at here. I think we are doing the right thing in trying to pick up the better players from the bottom two leagues as this is where the bargains can be had and where we can do business. However if we can't do the business or we won't do the business for the sake of a couple of hundred grand then we are gambling on our championship status.

Sometimes you have to pay a little bit more than you would like to get the thing that you really want. Example, I once went to buy a house, it was more than I would have liked to pay and it was a stretch financially at that time. I negotiated, the price came down a bit but it was still higher than I wanted to pay. Then i thought, this house is ideal for what I want for me and my family and will serve me well for several years. I paid the difference, cut back on other things as necessary and having had the use of this house/asset for nearly 5 years now, the house has probably doubled in value and will probably serve me well till I drop or I retire to the sun. In short, it was more than I wanted to pay but it has been a bargain in the long term and has served my purposes. Maybe a Leonard is the footballing equivalent.

A few hundred grand should not prevent us from doing a deal if that player is deemed to be a potentially important player for us in the next couple if seasons. And all this talk about re-sale value does my nut in. Re-sale (whilst important) is not the be all and end all for all players. If we brought in Holmes now at 30 he will probably have little resale value if any in 2 or 3 years time. Agreed. However we will have had use of that player in the meantime. The fee we pay now is paying for the use of that asset for the immediate future. That player might just help us win a few games to help us stay in the championship. So in that sense that fee paid will be more recuperated when we get our championship prize money / more sponsorship money / extra money from sky etc. Do people never buy nice cars as they also depreciate on value over time then?

If we really want those players and we think they will be very important players for us...then stop scrimping and get the deals done. Don't be cheap Utd do what is necessary or move on to other targets but remember they will be CW's second choices.
 
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Would you be happy paying over the odds for Holmes and Leonard if it means we then can't sign a centre back and keeper.?

This is for CW to decide on the potential importance of those players to his team.

CW might think that with his budget available to him that he can't get all the players he would like and that he has to cut back somewhere. It's then up to him to either revise his target players, so he can probably get players in all areas he has identified as having a weakness, or he thinks I will pay a little bit more for 2 x players who are my first choice targets...and then I will live with the other areas of the squad having lesser players available to me for the time being.

For what it's worth, I would prefer CW to bring in a couple of his first choice players and then try to bring in a couple of players on loan for the other positions if the finance doesn't stretch right now. Sort out a couple of positions for good with the players you actually want rather than having more 'lesser' players all of whom wouldnt be CW' first choice players.
 
Carey thread post #7 but I guess you'll say Kevin Gage knows nowt also. Wake up and smell the coffee people, look at the evidence.

The evidence is that Alan Knill said last night that we weren't interested in Carey.
 
I actually agree with JJ on this.

Yes, I don't want CW to overpay on anyone and in an ideal world he will only pay the amount that he thinks the player is worth (or less ideally). However, there will be times / targets when we may have to go above the 'player valuation' to get the player in question IF we think that that player will enhance us on the pitch.

Obviously I don't know the finer details of any transfer negotiations between Utd and the target players parent club, but if media and rumours are to be believed then we arent a million miles apart in valuations. If we have to pay an extra £200k for example to get a deal done for a player CW clearly would like, then for me we should pay it. People need to realise that we are now trying to compete in the championship again and we are back with clubs who wouldnt think twice about paying the fees which we are looking at here. I think we are doing the right thing in trying to pick up the better players from the bottom two leagues as this is where the bargains can be had and where we can do business. However if we can't do the business or we won't do the business for the sake of a couple of hundred grand then we are gambling on our championship status.

Sometimes you have to pay a little bit more than you would like to get the thing that you really want. Example, I once went to buy a house, it was more than I would have liked to pay and it was a stretch financially at that time. I negotiated, the price came down a bit but it was still higher than I wanted to pay. Then i thought, this house is ideal for what I want for me and my family and will serve me well for several years. I paid the difference, cut back on other things as necessary and having had the use of this house/asset for nearly 5 years now, the house has probably doubled in value and will probably serve me well till I drop or I retire to the sun. In short, it was more than I wanted to pay but it has been a bargain in the long term and has served my purposes. Maybe a Leonard is the footballing equivalent.

A few hundred grand should not prevent us from doing a deal if that player is deemed to be a potentially important player for us in the next couple if seasons. And all this talk about re-sale value does my nut in. Re-sale (whilst important) is not the be all and end all for all players. If we brought in Holmes now at 30 he will probably have little resale value if any in 2 or 3 years time. Agreed. However we will have had use of that player in the meantime. The fee we pay now is paying for the use of that asset for the immediate future. That player might just help us win a few games to help us stay in the championship. So in that sense that fee paid will be more recuperated when we get our championship prize money / more sponsorship money / extra money from sky etc. Do people never buy nice cars as they also depreciate on value over time then?

If we really want those players and we think they will be very important players for us...then stop scrimping and get the deals done. Don't be cheap Utd do what is necessary or move on to other targets but remember they will be CW's second choices.

You don't want us to overpay, but you don't mind us overpaying £200k each on these two.
I've faith that Wilder and Mitchell know enough about these players to know their value. The window is open for another 2 months and it opens again in January. In the meantime our "second choice" could be a kid from a Premier League team desperate to kick on.
Many on here were up in arms that we didn't overpay Alex Revell this time last year. We didn't do too bad without him.
 
We should only think about paying over what CW thinks a player is worth, if there is a cluster of clubs after the same player, and even then there as to be a limit. But in the case of Leonard, the only other interested party are millwall, and if you believe what's being written in the local rag( I live 15 mins from roots hall) we have bid 50k more than them.
 
You don't want us to overpay, but you don't mind us overpaying £200k each on these two.
I've faith that Wilder and Mitchell know enough about these players to know their value. The window is open for another 2 months and it opens again in January. In the meantime our "second choice" could be a kid from a Premier League team desperate to kick on.
Many on here were up in arms that we didn't overpay Alex Revell this time last year. We didn't do too bad without him.

In answer to your first question...Yes your right...I dont want SUFC to overpay for a player. Q2. Again your quite correct. I wouldn't have a problem if SUFC paid a couple of hundred grand over Wilders valuation if it meant that it got the deal done for a player....PROVIDED that Wilder saw the player as a potential key player for his team next season. If he does the pay the little bit extra if this is required to get the deal done. If he's not seen as being a key player (although evidence suggests otherwise due to the length of time taken negotiating so far) then no, dont pay over your valuation and move onto other targets. In essence if he's a key player then sometimes your better paying a premium for them as it should help your club win football matches next season.

I go to watch Utd win matches on a Saturday and if they haven't cos the team hasn't been good enough then I get the hump on. I dont get any consolation in the fact that Utd's balance sheet is £200k better off than it could have been. Selfish maybe, but then again I'm just a supporter and not a multi millionaire chairman.

I wholeheartedly agree with your statement about Wilder. I also have complete faith in the man in that he will do a fantastic job for SUFC. However that doesnt mean that I aways have to see eye to eye with everything he does. For example, if he doesn't bring in a potential key player (for the sake of an extra couple of hundred grand which in the relative scheme of things is peanuts in the championship) if he has the means but decides not to due to not being prepared to pay over his valuation, then I think that he is making a mistake. You cleary don't. I do.

Yes we might get a 'second choice' target before the window ends...but he is a 2nd choice for a reason. I want CW to get as many of his 'first choices' as he can get. If the club have to find a bit extra to help CW get those first choices then within reason I would expect them to do so and to back him. Maybe they have...and it's CW who is not wanting to pay extra...his prerogative. Either way if it's a key player we want...we should be prepared to pay a little extra if necessary.

Alex Revell...What's he got to do with the price of fish??? Don't think he was ever seen as a 'key' player for the team. In that instance CW did right to offer him what he was worth and then move on. It was the players wage demands that put paid to that deal...not a selling club wanting a few grand extra.
 

But in the case of Leonard, the only other interested party are millwall, and if you believe what's being written in the local rag( I live 15 mins from roots hall) we have bid 50k more than them.

Not so. There is another club very much interested in having his services next season. And so far they seem to have put more value in having him in their team next season than Utd currently have. It's up to Utd to outbid what this club think is his worth to them next season. The club I refer to is Southend.
 
Not so. There is another club very much interested in having his services next season. And so far they seem to have put more value in having him in their team next season than Utd currently have. It's up to Utd to outbid what this club think is his worth to them next season. The club I refer to is Southend.

Exactly this - we need to induce them to sell. If the price difference is too much then we'll miss out and look to move on - that's fair enough. It's not about over or under paying for anyone - His value is what southend demand for him - we are obviously haggling to get the best price

I think people expecting southend to crumble just because its southend would do well to remember that. They have a value placed on him and are under no obligation to sell him. At some stage we need to decide if we will pay that or not

In addition - we would do well to remember it next time a club comes knocking for one of our players. I've always thought it was nonsense that we have to sell just because a player quite fancies a move (ala Che and Murphy.) Most players are solid pros and would still do the job they are paid for an accept that they only move once the fee is right.

Admittedly I know we have had to sell to balance the books.
 
Using the car boot sale analogy. You turn up early and see something you want. You offer low, to start the negotiation. You get a knock back and the seller goes high. You try to negotiate to a figure you think is acceptable but the seller digs his heels in. So, you've got two choices; wait until the end and if it's still for sale, go back and offer your final bid again, in the hope the seller wanted to shift the item today and isn't prepared to wait until the next boot sale. The drawback is that while you're waiting, someone else makes a much better offer and does a deal.
Or you go back with an bid you think is a bit steep. Why? Because it's still cheaper than buying it new and it's something you want.

And which option you take depends on how much you want the item and how much you can afford.
 
Using the car boot sale analogy. You turn up early and see something you want. You offer low, to start the negotiation. You get a knock back and the seller goes high. You try to negotiate to a figure you think is acceptable but the seller digs his heels in. So, you've got two choices; wait until the end and if it's still for sale, go back and offer your final bid again, in the hope the seller wanted to shift the item today and isn't prepared to wait until the next boot sale. The drawback is that while you're waiting, someone else makes a much better offer and does a deal.
Or you go back with an bid you think is a bit steep. Why? Because it's still cheaper than buying it new and it's something you want.

And which option you take depends on how much you want the item and how much you can afford.

Up to a point but that assumes they want to sell.

This is more like wakling up to someone's house and offering to buy his car even though it's not for sale, and he really likes it.

There's a point at which it makes sense to sell, if the money is good enough and you can line up replacement transport. Until that point you'd tell them to get on their bikes.
 
Up to a point but that assumes they want to sell.

This is more like wakling up to someone's house and offering to buy his car even though it's not for sale, and he really likes it.

There's a point at which it makes sense to sell, if the money is good enough and you can line up replacement transport. Until that point you'd tell them to get on their bikes.

This is how I see it. If we like the car/player enough then we need to make it worthwhile to the other party to think 'OK I didnt really want to sell but the offer is just too good to say no'. If we want the lad bad enough we are probably going to have to be prepared to pay over what we initially thought was a 'fair price'. It's put up or shut up time if we want him at the start of the training period for the new season.

Tbf to Southend they should be commended for not just rolling over and having their bellies tickled by a club in a higher division...like we have probably been guilty of at times in the past.
 
Out of respect for Knill I wouldn't accuse him of being a liar.

Do you honestly think people in football always tell the 100% truth? It doesn't mean they like hoodwinking fans.

If Carey failed an extensive medical and therefore thought his best option was take up Plymouth's offer, do you think Knill should tell everyone he failed a medical?

Or to protect him, Plymouth and ourselves from unnecessary questions, do you think it would be better to deny any dealings?

This isn't a deal/link where anyone deserves criticism.
 
We have been down the road of paying inflated prices for players Wilder has said he won't pay more than what he thinks a player is worth. Nothing to do with size of budget refreshing attitude to take


Yes I agree
But let's face it
The shyte that we've signed over the last 6 or 7 years have taken no negotiation skills whatsoever
They have either come from near part time Scottish football or have been deadbeats who were several years past their best who once played for a decent team

It is the signing of deadbeats several years past their best who once played for a decent team that has ruined the club

Players on their way up the football pyramid have nothing in common with the likes of Salmon, Higdon and Hammond

My whole point is that sometimes to get the business done you have to pay a bit more, the past should not affect it, especially when we have a manager who is very unlikely to bring a dead duck into the club
 
Do you honestly think people in football always tell the 100% truth? It doesn't mean they like hoodwinking fans.

If Carey failed an extensive medical and therefore thought his best option was take up Plymouth's offer, do you think Knill should tell everyone he failed a medical?

Or to protect him, Plymouth and ourselves from unnecessary questions, do you think it would be better to deny any dealings?

This isn't a deal/link where anyone deserves criticism.

Carey failing a medical is only hear say though isn't it from some account on twitter. I reckon if he had failed a medical we would nhave said we spoke to him but it didn't materialise into a deal or something similar. I don't think we were interested but we'll never know. There has been genuine interest in Holmes and Leonard but very little exposure of the Carey possibility, other than the Yorkshire Post who said we had been linked with him but never mentioned who had said it! They didn't say that we were interested in him but that we had been linked with him and I never saw an article that said we were interested in him.
 
Be nice for us to just stump up what Southend want, assuming it isn't ridiculous.

STOP PENNY PINCHING FOR A CHANGE. We've just won promotion, strengthen in every area we need it.
 
Be nice for us to just stump up what Southend want, assuming it isn't ridiculous.

STOP PENNY PINCHING FOR A CHANGE. We've just won promotion, strengthen in every area we need it.

I can't remember who said it on here, but it's a pertinent point. We might not be stumping up what Southend want, but neither is the other supposed interested party (Millwall?). Maybe that suggests that whatever figure Southend have in mind, might be a bit rich for everyones blood? Of course, Southend are well within their rights to set the price, but that doesn't mean we have to pay it if we think it might be too much.

We will see what transpires :)
 
I can just imagine the conversation between Barcelona and Man City

Barca..........Ok Man City, Lionel Messi is for sale

Man City ........ We'll give you £200 million

Barca.............Ooo err I was thinking more along the lines of £201 million actually

Man City..........Fucking forget it, we're not paying more than what we think he's worth

Barca............Ok.......daft twats, snigger
 

I can just imagine the conversation between Barcelona and Man City

Barca..........Ok Man City, Lionel Messi is for sale

Man City ........ We'll give you £200 million

Barca.............Ooo err I was thinking more along the lines of £201 million actually

Man City..........Fucking forget it, we're not paying more than what we think he's worth

Barca............Ok.......daft twats, snigger
But what if that £1 million took them outside of FFP allowance and so would be banned from European competition for a season?
 

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