Proper football, Wilder and Basset

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

In an attempt to return the Ryan Leonard Rumour Mill thread to those who wish to read about Ryan Leonard, and in a foolish attempt to play United Nations peacekeeper, I am taking up the invite to put up a thread here which I hope will de-fuse the ticking bomb that has been planted there. I have set out below 4 statements which I would hope just about everyone can agree on, so that the discussion can move on from its current dialogue of the deaf to consider many other related areas.
1. United have played good, attractive, football under Wilder, a style of football often called 'proper football'.
2. United played a different style of football under Basset, making use of the long-ball game.
3. United were successful under Basset, who with a small budget gave us memorable days such as the 5-2 win at Leicester.
4. Blades fans are happy with the style of football under Wilder, and have no wish to see him switch to the long-ball game.
Does anyone disagree with the above? If so, give some reasons. If not, can we all move on, and spare the rumour hunters pages of treacle to wade through. Debate it here. And one minor point for consideration, which many of you will recognise: can we put a stop to the insulting of park footballers? I have spent quite a bit of time watching the grandson play recently, and like the way the kids in general are being encouraged. And looking at the adults on adjacent pitches, the standard often looks good. Certainly much better than the Friendlies League stuff I used to play in the 60s and 70s.

 

[CarlingBlade]

As Wilder said at the LMA Awards, "Old School is the new School", football has lost its way over the last 20yrs, with PL has grown beyond anyone's expectations, the coverage is exceptional compared to what it was, goals on handheld devices 45 mins after the match has finish, no waiting for the 6.00pm Green Un.

However money has killed the desire for some players, who will go to whoever is the highest bidder, loyalty has been replaced, along with this comes heart, desire and will to win (for some, not all).

 

[Houso]

Despite your Kissinger-esque diplomacy, Pinchy just kicked the face off a puppy.

 

[Westran]

I'd love it if this thread just became Pinchy arguing with himself in some wierd paradox that he can't escape

 

[LenTednTony]

Really didn't want to join in this but doesn't 'proper' football change dependant upon the opposition, weather, pitch condition, oppositions style of play, members of the opposition's team and a desire to compete, and win?

 

[Revolution]

I genuinely don't know why anyone wastes their time arguing with Pinchy on this topic.

Thanks for posting though. I can see he's still the same one trick pony without having to take him off ignore.

 

[SwissBlade]

As long as proper football isn't tippy tappy wank bollocks then I'm cool with this

*And it's Bassett not Basset

 

[Tyler Durden]

Putting the ball in the net by any means necessary is proper football. Anything else is peripheral bollocks and I despise frivolity.

 

[BushBlade]

Keep it tight at the back, let the ball do the work and hopefully at the end of the day we get a result.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

Really didn't want to join in this but doesn't 'proper' football change dependant upon the opposition, weather, pitch condition, oppositions style of play, members of the opposition's team and a desire to compete, and win?

Totally agree. These are things which are worth talking about, and learning from others about. BergenBlade's contributions come to mind. The possibilities are endless, but need not be repetitive.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

As long as proper football isn't tippy tappy wank bollocks then I'm cool with this

*And it's Bassett not Basset

I know I don't know much about football systems, but I thought I was ok on spelling.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

Putting the ball in the net by any means necessary is proper football. Anything else is peripheral bollocks and I despise frivolity.

Serious reply - working out the best 'means necessary' is the difficult.
Frivolous reply - I never thought I would see you write 'I despise frivolity'

 

[LenTednTony]

Honest question......is there a difference between proper football and playing football properly?

 

[Sheffsteel]

I suppose it depends what is meant by "proper football".

We played a patient passing game, some would say "proper football", with Dave Weir and Nigel Clough but it wasn't good to watch due to minimal goal mouth action at either end.

Under Warnock and especially Bassett the football was very industrial, boot it into danger areas and the law of averages says eventually your team will fall lucky. Although we didn't play "proper football" under Bassett I've got to admit it was very effective and at times very entertaining.

There's a football snobbery about only "proper football" should be played.
It's the type of thing Arsen Wenger always says because he wants an open game where teams let each other play. It's the different styles and formations that make the game more interesting.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

Honest question......is there a difference between proper football and playing football properly?

I wouldn't have thought so. Proper football, a proper footballer, playing football the proper way, etc., refer to the same kind of thing... I think.

 

[Rusty view]

Score more goals than the opposition. Job Done. Anything in-between is a bonus.

 

[SirNibletsO'Korne]

As Wilder said at the LMA Awards, "Old School is the new School", football has lost its way over the last 20yrs, with PL has grown beyond anyone's expectations, the coverage is exceptional compared to what it was, goals on handheld devices 45 mins after the match has finish, no waiting for the 6.00pm Green Un.

However money has killed the desire for some players, who will go to whoever is the highest bidder, loyalty has been replaced, along with this comes heart, desire and will to win (for some, not all).

Am i on my own in genuinely missing the Green 'Un?

 

[DronnieBlade]

Some of my most treasured memories have been while following UTD to all corners of the country under Bassett.

At the time, the method seemed of little consequence. He managed to extract close to the maximum from his squad based on the resources employed and available. He will of course always hold a special place in my and many others Blades fans hearts and is always most welcome when he comes to visit the Lane.

Now.

The gods honest truth of the matter is that this was 25+ years ago. Football has evolved. The good old English way no longer works and has been well and truly found out for what it is.

It's a slow frustrating and painful process but we are streets behind many of our European peers. It will in my estimation take decades to catch up, if we ever do. We, the English footballing nation, are technically inferior in so many different ways it's scary.

So I guess what I'm saying is that the poster that the OP is aiming for, and we all know who, is right. It's been consigned to room 101, let it be fellas.

Let it be !

Won't stop the hoards of "gerritforrard" boys screaming at the top of their voices at the hint of a passage of play that goes backwards and sideways. But, and this won't by universally popular, my view is now this is borne of ignorance. They don't know better.

Forgive them father, they know not what they do.

As for Tufty, fucking genius. Long to reign over us, god save the Tufty.

UTB

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

Some of my most treasured memories have been while following UTD to all corners of the country under Bassett.

At the time, the method seemed of little consequence. He managed to extract close to the maximum from his squad based on the resources employed and available. He will of course always hold a special place in my and many others Blades fans hearts and is always most welcome when he comes to visit the Lane.

Now.

The gods honest truth of the matter is that this was 25+ years ago. Football has evolved. The good old English way no longer works and has been well and truly found out for what it is.

It's a slow frustrating and painful process but we are streets behind many of our European peers. It will in my estimation take decades to catch up, if we ever do. We, the English footballing nation, are technically inferior in so many different ways it's scary.

So I guess what I'm saying is that the poster that the OP is aiming for, and we all know who, is right. It's been consigned to room 101, let it be fellas.

Let it be !

Won't stop the hoards of "gerritforrard" boys screaming at the top of their voices at the hint of a passage of play that goes backwards and sideways. But, and this won't by universally popular, my view is now this is borne of ignorance. They don't know better.

Forgive them father, they know not what they do.

As for Tufty, fucking genius. Long to reign over us, god save the Tufty.

UTB

Agree with almost all of that. But backwards and sideways has to lead somewhere eventually, and be relatively risk-free. I was with the 'gerritforrard' boys when Weir was manager.

 

[Hillsboro Blade]

For me it's who your playing against. For example on 23 September I don't care how they play, I'd settle for the ball deflecting in off a Pork players fat arse in the 94th minute for a one nil win. But I would also settle for pissing all over the fuckers and winning 5-0.

 

[DronnieBlade]

Agree with almost all of that. But backwards and sideways has to lead somewhere eventually, and be relatively risk-free. I was with the 'gerritforrard' boys when Weir was manager.

And I get that. I really do.

The fact is, under Weir and Adkins, the backwards and sideways stuff lacked purpose. In view of this it's hardly surprising a section of our fans are sceptical.

But under Tufty it's been different. Very different. The back and sides stuff HAS had purpose. Real purpose. This has been aided considerably by the best CM pairing we have had in yonks, that compliment each other well and genuinely have the guile, technique and understanding to bring it all together on the pitch.

You can actually see why decisions to pass back are made. It's the correct thing to do.

Recycle the ball.
Retain possession.
Go again.

It's the Tufty way. And it's the right way.

UTB

 

[seanbeenstattoo]

For me it's who your playing against. For example on 23 September I don't care how they play, I'd settle for the ball deflecting in off a Pork players fat arse in the 94th minute for a one nil win. But I would also settle for pissing all over the fuckers and winning 5-0.

Excellent post.
Anyone seriously arguing that losing to the pigs but playing "proper football" takes precedence over psycho route one ball coming down with snow on it clearences out of the ground 1-0 og victory is a fucking idiot.

 

[DronnieBlade]

Excellent post.
Anyone seriously arguing that losing to the pigs but playing "proper football" takes precedence over psycho route one ball coming down with snow on it clearences out of the ground 1-0 og victory is a fucking idiot.

In exactly the same way losing to the pigs twice playing said "proper football" that over the course of the other 44 games amassed sufficient points for a promotion push would also be perfectly acceptable.

So which way do you go ??

I'll start. Let's continue doing it the Tufty way. If it ain't broke ..........

UTB

 

[Tyler Durden]

And I get that. I really do.

The fact is, under Weir and Adkins, the backwards and sideways stuff lacked purpose. In view of this it's hardly surprising a section of our fans are sceptical.

But under Chris fucking Wilder it's been different. Very different. The back and sides stuff HAS had purpose. Real purpose. This has been aided considerably by the best CM pairing we have had in yonks, that compliment each other well and genuinely have the guile, technique and understanding to bring it all together on the pitch.

You can actually see why decisions to pass back are made. It's the correct thing to do.

Recycle the ball.
Retain possession.
Go again.

It's the Chris fucking Wilder way. And it's the right way.

UTB

Fixed it.

 

[DronnieBlade]

Fixed it.

I thank you !

You gonna fix all the other Tufty references as well ?

Might take a while !!!!

UTB

 

[seanbeenstattoo]

In exactly the same way losing to the pigs twice playing said "proper football" that over the course of the other 44 games amassed sufficient points for a promotion push would also be perfectly acceptable.

So which way do you go ??

I'll start. Let's continue doing it the Tufty way. If it ain't broke ..........

UTB

No one has advocated differently,but if you seriously think playing with absolutely no mind to the opposition,especially in the unique situation of a derby then you are pretty naive and would probably get fucking pelters as the manager,and rightly so.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

Excellent post.
Anyone seriously arguing that losing to the pigs but playing "proper football" takes precedence over psycho route one ball coming down with snow on it clearences out of the ground 1-0 og victory is a fucking idiot.

I'll go with that after the match 100%. But before the game, people more important than you and me have to decide whether the best chance of winning comes from playing our normal game, or trying to win 'ugly', for want of a better word. I doubt we have a squad suited to winning ugly at the moment.

 

[JJBlade]

I didn't mind Bassetts so called long ball because it wasn't long ball
It was a fast direct style that used speed and power but it wasn't long ball

It was a team that had good technical set piece ideas and the delivery from Hodges was second to none

Warnocks so called long ball was about intimidation and making people hate us so that we would all be in it together but it had plenty of football mixed up in all the chaos as well

What I didn't like was Blackwells version of long ball
It was so primitive it was embarrassing.

 

[lingsbord]

Anybody who thinks Bassett's style was simply hoofball is clueless. Percentage football has its place, and for a good few years under Bassett it worked a treat. Overlapping fullbacks, balls into the channels to turn defences to give the strikers a chance against retreating defenders, the rest of the side pressing the second and third ball, it's all good when it works (the unclean got close to promotion the last 2 seasons - Carlos is a percentage coach).

On the other hand, keeping the ball for the sake of keeping the ball, massively high pass completion rates and possession percentages etc might be considered "proper" football, but if you're David Weir and you can gain 70% possession but lose 1-0 week after depressing week, you can stick your "proper" football up yer arse. If you want perfect shapes and movement, fuck off and watch Strictly....

PROPER football is winning football. As fans, we turn up to watch a team that wins football matches. How they achieve those wins matters as much as the order in which winning lottery numbers are drawn out. These poncy cunts who think we have to dance the right steps while we're going about our business are sad and delusional clueless no-marks looking to provoke a response on forums.

WINNING football is all that matters to a genuine fan, and however you achieve it is absolutely and completely irrelevant.

 

[DronnieBlade]

You are of course right. Derbies are different. But not so much. The pitch is the same. The goals are the same.

But I actually WANT to see us dish out a pure footballing lesson in the process. Rub their fucking noses in it while inpolitely reminding them that the "gap" was, is, and always has been a figment of their inbred imaginations.

If it goes in off Westwoods arse, so be it.

UTB