CONFIRMED Ryan Leonard

[Pinchy]

I've said what I wanted to say on it Pinchy, I'd only be repeating myself re your last points. Each to his own as they say!

Indeed. Hoofers have their standards; I have mine. I am entirely content.

 

[SteveBlade]

Pinchy be like

 

[Ricky]

When "Tufty" talks about 'proper football', he's not only talking about passing the ball.

 

[Pinchy]

As you mentioned earlier, proper football is winning football.

Two promotions and as high a finish in the countries top division for nigh on 30 years.

Was Bassett's football, proper football back then?

No. Proper football involves pass and move, not hoof and hope. Bassett was a novelty item. It worked for a while, then teams learned to cope. As I've explained, it's still available if you like that sort of thing. Tufty doesn't. Neither do I. We both prefer the right way. That's fine.

 

[Pinchy]

When "Tufty" talks about 'proper football', he's not only talking about passing the ball.

Ah, another alchemist fresh from his computer manager game. I know exactly what he's talking about.

 

[Ricky]

Ah, another alchemist fresh from his computer manager game. I know exactly what he's talking about.

So you know he's also talking about being hardworking, efficient and flexible and playing with desire, integrity and always to win?

 

[MobileBlade]

For new readers, welcome to Page 44 of the Ryan Leonard thread, of which there is approximately five talking about the potential transfer. If you came here with an interest on whether he has signed or not - he hasn't. Unless you are really interested in reading about the last 30 years brand of football played at the Mecca of world football, and a real pantomime of who is right or wrong (I am, No I am, No I am, No I am), then I would suggest waiting till about page 78 for an update.

 

[Harrisblade]

Indeed. Hoofers have their standards; I have mine. I am entirely content.

Well shut up then and sit in beatific silence unless someone (other than you) actually raises the subject of 'proper football'

 

[Pinchy]

So you know he's also talking about being hardworking, efficient and flexible and playing with desire, integrity and always to win?

Yes. I know everything.

 

[Pinchy]

Well shut up then and sit in beatific silence unless someone (other than you) actually raises the subject of 'proper football'

But they won't. They like to avoid it. It troubles them.

 

[Oohaah! Bob Bookah!]

For new readers, welcome to Page 44 of the Ryan Leonard thread, of which there is approximately five talking about the potential transfer. If you came here with an interest on whether he has signed or not - he hasn't. Unless you are really interested in reading about the last 30 years brand of football played at the Mecca of world football, and a real pantomime of who is right or wrong (I am, No I am, No I am, No I am), then I would suggest waiting till about page 78 for an update.

Thanks for the heads up

 

[Shrimperama]

Our local rag has another story today. Says we have turned down an increased bid of 350k from the blades.

We fully expect to start the season with Ryan in our side unless the bids are significantly increased

 

[sheffielder]

I know Wilder likes value for money, but if he thinks that Leonard can do him a job in the Championship we shouldn't have a problem raising this. I understand the in Wilder we trust mantra but if Leonard is the man for him then let's stop playing games and get it done.

I will now run for cover.

 

[Mouth of the South]

I know Wilder likes value for money, but if he thinks that Leonard can do him a job in the Championship we shouldn't have a problem raising this. I understand the in Wilder we trust mantra but if Leonard is the man for him then let's stop playing games and get it done.

I will now run for cover.

You'd rather just concede to Southend and pay whatever amount they want (which they apparently haven't disclosed) even if it meant another target e.g. Holmes couldn't be afforded?

 

[SteveBlade]

So are we rich as fuck, and Wilders policy just means we like value for money. Or have we got fuck all and paying an extra few 100k for a player will financially cripple us?

 

[Pinchy]

I know Wilder likes value for money, but if he thinks that Leonard can do him a job in the Championship we shouldn't have a problem raising this. I understand the in Wilder we trust mantra but if Leonard is the man for him then let's stop playing games and get it done.

I will now run for cover.

I don't agree with you but I commend that you aim your point at Wilder, unlike the disingenuous agenda brigade who massage the issue so as to blame the chairman.

 

[Pinchy]

Our local rag has another story today. Says we have turned down an increased bid of 350k from the blades.

We fully expect to start the season with Ryan in our side unless the bids are significantly increased

Your expectations will be dashed. The player and his greedy agent will force the issue. Does he play golf in hot weather?

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

No. Proper football involves pass and move, not hoof and hope. Bassett was a novelty item. It worked for a while, then teams learned to cope. As I've explained, it's still available if you like that sort of thing. Tufty doesn't. Neither do I. We both prefer the right way. That's fine.

Oh, so to suit your agenda you've changed your stance from 'proper football is winning football' to 'proper football is pass and move'.

At what point did I mention preferring that style of football?

Like with others, when people challenge your idiocy, you make things up. For me Arsenal have played the best football in my lifetime and have done for most of the Premier League era.

Does that suit your agenda?

 

[BushBlade]

You'd rather just concede to Southend and pay whatever amount they want (which they apparently haven't disclosed) even if it meant another target e.g. Holmes couldn't be afforded?

We could end up losing them both at this rate.

If Leonard and Holmes are actually good enough for the championship they'll be on other managers' lists. Maybe not first choice but second, third, fourth. When they lose out on their first choice, they'll look at these players instead. Most championship clubs wouldn't think twice about paying £500k+ for a player.

There's no way we would have sold a player we wanted to keep to a championship club for £350k when we were in L1 so why are we so confident we can buy players for that?

 

[BushBlade]

Oh, so to suit your agenda you've changed your stance from 'proper football is winning football' to 'proper football is pass and move'.

At what point did I mention preferring that style of football?

Like with others, when people challenge your idiocy, you make things up. For me Arsenal have played the best football in my lifetime and have done for most of the Premier League era.

Does that suit your agenda?

Why are you so bothered about what Pinchy thinks? Why is anyone? He's just a bloke on the Internet. He's playing you lot like a piano.

 

[Pinchy]

Oh, so to suit your agenda you've changed your stance from 'proper football is winning football' to 'proper football is pass and move'.

At what point did I mention preferring that style of football?

Like with others, when people challenge your idiocy, you make things up. For me Arsenal have played the best football in my lifetime and have done for most of the Premier League era.

Does that suit your agenda?

I haven't changed my stance at all. Pass and Move is the way to play football. It is the style that wins matches, leagues and trophies. That's because it's by far the most effective style and, as a wonderful bonus, by far the most attractive. The way to win is pass and move. The beautiful game is the successful game. They are one and the same. Hoof is not only grotesque. It fails. The Crazy Gang are extinct.

I entirely agree about Arsenal.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Congratulations. Our survey shows that you are a Hoofer. That tells me all I need to know. Pop down to your local rec any Sunday morning. You will see all your "footballing" heart could desire.

There are those who tell me that I make up views like yours...

What do you think I should coco? Looks like the Neanderthal spirit lives on. Doesn't think Hoof would work but would still like to watch it...

Mmmmm. Only in S2.

The guy has said he wants us to win football matches be that playing direct or passing football on the deck. That doesn’t mean he loves hoof. It means he loves seeing United win and is less bothered about how that occurs. He has in no way suggested Wilder should depart from his methods to hoof so if this is the evidence to back up your claims, you’re still making some wild leaps I’m afraid.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

People constantly argue with me because, like Don Quixote, they like tilting at windmills.

In answer to your first question, Blade for Sale for one, and there are many others. We have the least sophisticated fans in the land. Only in S2 does Bassett get anything but a passing mention, usually with 'dinosaur' in the same sentence.

All I ask for is honesty. If you like your football to consist of a series of aimless punts in the general direction of the opposition goal; devoid of any creativity or vision, that is your prerogative. One of your number has had the courage to stand up for grotesque hoof. Why don't the rest of you?

Let's be 'avin yer, oofers.

“devoid of any creativity or vision”


Sounds like someone who never saw Brian Deane, Glynn Hodges or Dane Whitehouse pull on the famous red and white stripes.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Only one then, because I certainly did. I'm quite a gregarious bloke and chat to anyone so it could in theory have been me but wasn't on that occasion. Two sensible Blades in the world. Remarkable.

My problem with Bassett is his legacy.

The continuing suspicion bordering on mistrust amongst our fan base about good passing football.

The feeling that we're uncomfortable (fans, certainly not players and management) about outplaying the opposition and prefer to prevail by being the courageous upanatem underdog. By definition, of course, the latter can't happen very often. A very good football team on the other hand, will win consistently. This is where the "winning football is more important than attractive football" mantra fails to recognise an essential reality. The teams who win regularly do it by playing the 'right way', a favourite phrase of our excellent manager. The way you play has a direct correlation with how successful you are. It's cause and effect not coincidence.

Sensing that however well we're playing the first groan is only a misplaced pass away and the first cry of Gerritintbox imminent.

You may say that's true of fans all over the land but in my view it's acute and excessive at the Lane.

All this is, at least in part, a symptom of the Bassett (and to some extent Warnock) generation and their failure to understand that a particular style has been consigned to history.

That's why I ask myself, on many years reflection, whether 4 years of over-achievement; followed, let it be said by a pretty rapid downward spiral to exactly where we started, was worth the damage done.

No losing manager was ever beaten by Sheffield United's superiority. It was always, without fail, "we couldn't cope with their style of play" and that was never intended as a compliment.

They can't say that now. We outplay and outclass them with the quality of our football. That's what makes me proud. That's what I want to see. That, contrary to popular belief is the Sheffield United way. The Currie, Badger and Woodward way. The Carlin, Addison and Reece way. Now we are living down the long-ball, hoofit, miss-out-midfield approach. It's taking a long time, not helped by Warnock and the former semi-professional, non-league, reserve goalkeeper, but we're now getting there.

Thank Pele for Tufty.

. ️.

I agree with quite a lot of your post but……


“The continuing suspicion bordering on mistrust amongst our fan base about good passing football.

The feeling that we're uncomfortable (fans, certainly not players and management) about outplaying the opposition and prefer to prevail by being the courageous upanatem underdog. “


Are nothing more than myths. I don’t think we have a single supporter that is uncomfortable about outplaying the opposition or that has a suspicion bordering on mistrust about good passing football. What we do have, are fans who have seen the most successful blades teams in their lifetime have and ‘upanatem’ approach with a small sprinkling of quality/ flair (Deane, Whitehouse, Hodgets etc. under Bassett and Brown, Nuddy, Tonge, Kabba, Webber, McCall etc. under Warnock). You seem to hold the mistaken belief that showing battling courage and playing good football are mutually exclusive. Yes Wilder’s team plays great football but they also demonstrate those brave battling qualities of Warnock and Bassett teams. In League 1, we could afford relative quality whilst also instilling these qualities which were lacking massively under previous managers (look at the transformation of Coutts and Freeman). I think the legacy you refer to is actually one that gives a higher than average appreciation for people who would run through brick walls for the club. That does not mean we don’t like to see quality, but probably does mean we will be somewhat more forgiving toward a lack of quality if players show those battling qualities (so long as it exists elsewhere in the team- promoted to the Prem at a canter with the limited Morgan and Monty but balanced by the likes of Ifill, Tonge, Kabba, Webber, Jags etc.). A higher than average appreciation for a limited battler does not mean that we don’t like good football. Ideally, we want to see players who have it all. Workrate, bravery, skill, pace etc.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I have explained proper football until I'm blue in the face, Hodgy. The hoofers are in denial and most of the others simply don't understand.

My footballing philosophy is exactly the same as that of every manager and player who speaks of the "right way" or "proper football" as the vast majority, including Tufty do. We all know that means and it's absolutely nothing to do with anything Bassett or Warnock ever produced. Significantly neither used the phrases because people would have laughed at them.

One more time. Proper football is winning football. They are one and the same; two sides of the same coin. If aimless hoof were the way to play, the best teams in the world would hoof it. They don't. Because it's utter shite, doesn't work and was consigned to history's dustbin.

None of this would be remotely contentious except in S2, Land of the Dinosaurs.

View attachment 27980

Except it’s not consigned to the dustbin at all. It’s been pointed out to you on this thread that Pulis, Allardyce, Parkin, loathsome Megson etc. have all used these methods in recent years with a decent amount of success. It’s a tool that often allows teams containing less gifted players than their opponents a chance to cause them problems. The reason the best teams in the land don’t play it is because they have technically superior footballers. If you don’t have footballers that have the ability to play “the right way” and you can’t afford to get them, utilising players with limited ability but who will run themselves into the ground and who have a physical presence, playing the percentages gives you a chance against more skilful opposition. It’s not preferable and I don’t think one blade would have liked us to play like Bolton over the way we played this season. But they would have taken Bolton football over Weir, Clough and Adkins attempts to play “the right way” any day of the week. Fortunately, we have been able to obtain players with quality compared to other league 1 teams so could play “the right way”. We’ll see if that’s possible in the championship and even the Premier League when we have significantly smaller budgets than some of our rivals.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Let's be r8.

Every style of football can be exciting when it's played with quality.

The direct style is only 'prehistoric' when it doesn't work. If we had a big fuckoff striker who could flick it straight to Billy 90% of the time we'd do well playing to that strength.

Some teams try and play it out from the back and have quality build up play but they struggle to score. That's not exciting.

We've just hit fire, long may it continue.

I don’t think Billy would thrive in such a situation. If you’re playing long, I think you need a combination of aerial prowess and pace up top. Billy doesn’t have either of those things but is a good footballer who will only thrive in good footballing sides.

 

[Ron_Justice]

The idea that there's such a thing as 'proper football' is laughable. If there was such a thing, we'd have nothing but identikit teams the length and breadth of the land. Football is a game played by a group of individuals. There are variables at every link in the chain - fitness, skill, height, injury, finance, weather, pitch condition, philosophy, style, technology.... ... ... ...

Yes, there are ways of playing that, at any given time (both macro and micro) will yield better results, but the concept of a one size fits all 'Football Blueprint' is, quite frankly, bollocks.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Why did the keeper launch it 70 yards over their heads? Seems a bit of a waste?...

Because our best player was also very good in the air and was often our most advanced player. Our defenders weren't particularly good at playing out from the back. We tended to start with a hoof, look to win the 2nd ball in the opposition half and then the likes of Carr, Hodges, Bryson, Deane, Agana, Whitehouse etc. would look to try to play in the final 3rd.

 

[BushBlade]

So, I've heard Leonard has got a really long throw.

 

[I should coco]

He's just a bloke on the Internet. He's playing you lot like a piano.

You are spot on!

My New Year's resolution (it must be New Year somewhere) is to ignore him more. Actually a lot more.

I'm fed up with circular arguments about non existent hoofers, armies of straw men and general repetitive tedium.

Please remind me of this if you see me getting hoodwinked into replying to another one of his thread-spoilers.