Still 4 to play

[Captain]

I don't want (selfishly) to see the team parading the Trophy until the Chesterfield game

Agree, full house at BDTBL, sunny Sunday , party atmosphere, lap of honour with Billy holding the trophy, be a great end to a great season!

 

[Pinchy]

Just been thinking, with some of the logic people are using, I am as eligible as anyone else for a 'run out' against Port Vale.

Yes, you haven't had much game time lately and you always pay your subs on time. A run out you shall have. I'll put you on the right wing for the last ten minutes when we're playing downhill if that's okay?

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

Yes, you haven't had much game time lately and you always pay your subs on time. A run out you shall have. I'll put you on the right wing for the last ten minutes when we're playing downhill if that's okay?

I've got a couple of mates who fancy it too, ok to bring them? Got their own kit and are good lads.

 

[I should coco]

The Givemarun philosophy really is Sunday League thinking and becoming a little embarrassing to read.

Tired sigh.....

Once again the valiant Sir Pinchy-lot battles the Straw Dragon of Hoof with his trusty sword of truth and shield of shit.

NOBODY is saying 'give em a run' for the sake of it. Just because they have been at the academy since they were embryos, does not mean they should play. The spat between FM and HCDM is all about IF they are good enough.

If there are lads on the fringe, for example Brooks who played in the FAC, then it might make sense to give him some more exposure to the first team now the pressure is off. This is far from the 'givemarun' mentality you seem to have just imagined all the made up 'S2 Hoofers' insist on.

 

[Pinchy]

Tired sigh.....

Once again the valiant Sir Pinchy-lot battles the Straw Dragon of Hoof with his trusty sword of truth and shield of shit.

NOBODY is saying 'give em a run' for the sake of it. Just because they have been at the academy since they were embryos, does not mean they should play. The spat between FM and HCDM is all about IF they are good enough.

If there are lads on the fringe, for example Brooks who played in the FAC, then it might make sense to give him some more exposure to the first team now the pressure is off. This is far from the 'givemarun' mentality you seem to have just imagined all the made up 'S2 Hoofers' insist on.

Meanwhile, in a world where the inhabitants read what is written:

1. FM is advocating precisely that. Read the protracted "how do we know unless..."

2. HCDM and I are making identical points. He seems to think so, at least...

 

[Fanny magnet]

[
anyone who knows anything about football will tell you that plucking a youngster from.the academy and playing them in the first team is a risk by yours and pinchys criteria if they haven't played for the first team team its because they aren't good enough So I guess that means they never will it couldn't possibly be that the manager thinks now is not the time to take thAt risk with so much at stake ,or that it could setback the players development to Chuck them into such a high pressure situation


No it's because they aren't good enough ,if everyone in football had your attitude one would ever take the risk on a youngster

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

Tired sigh.....

Once again the valiant Sir Pinchy-lot battles the Straw Dragon of Hoof with his trusty sword of truth and shield of shit.

NOBODY is saying 'give em a run' for the sake of it. Just because they have been at the academy since they were embryos, does not mean they should play. The spat between FM and HCDM is all about IF they are good enough.

If there are lads on the fringe, for example Brooks who played in the FAC, then it might make sense to give him some more exposure to the first team now the pressure is off. This is far from the 'givemarun' mentality you seem to have just imagined all the made up 'S2 Hoofers' insist on.

To be fair there are a lot of people using throwaway comments along the lines of 'give the youngsters a run out', these comments/suggestions with no substance or supporting evidence whatsoever.

Its pretty simple, if we had any academy players whom CW deemed good enough for the first team, they would have been given a chance.

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

I think it's out of order to just say players aren't good enough when you haven't seen them play handl

**Bangs head against brick wall**

If they were currently good enough, CW would have selected them!![/QUOTE]anyone who knows anything about football will tell you that plucking a youngster from.the academy and playing them in the first team is a risk by yours and pinchys criteria if they haven't played for the first team team its because they aren't good enough So I guess that means they never will it couldn't possibly be that the manager thinks now is not the time to take thAt risk with so much at stake ,or that it could setback the players development to Chuck them into such a high pressure situation


No it's because they aren't good enough ,if everyone in football had your attitude one would ever take the risk on a youngster[/QUOTE]
They will play a first team game when the first team manager deems they are good enough (technically and mentally).

That hard to grasp?

I have no knowledge, and don't need any knowledge, of how good the currently academy players are. I don't watch them. But fortunately CW does.

 

[Fanny magnet]

They will play a first team game when the first team manager deems they are good enough (technically and mentally).

That hard to grasp?

I have no knowledge, and don't need any knowledge, of how good the currently academy players are. I don't watch them. But fortunately CW does.


But you have already deemed them not good enough and please don't repeat the Moronic if they were good enough they will play

No youth team player is a hundred percent ready to go in the first team some sink some swim .pinchy said ours weren't good enough and you backed him up even though you have no clue if they are or not

Remember jags tongue and Monty only got their chance after the battle of bramall lane so by your criteria they werent good enough before Michael Brown's injury but they were miraculously good enough after

Simplistic Bollox

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

They will play a first team game when the first team manager deems they are good enough (technically and mentally).

That hard to grasp?

I have no knowledge, and don't need any knowledge, of how good the currently academy players are. I don't watch them. But fortunately CW does.


But you have already deemed them not good enough and please don't repeat the Moronic if they were good enough they will play

No youth team player is a hundred percent ready to go in the first team some sink some swim .pinchy said ours weren't good enough and you backed him up even though you have no clue if they are or not

Remember jags tongue and Monty only got their chance after the battle of bramall lane so by your criteria they werent good enough before Michael Brown's injury but they were miraculously good enough after

Simplistic Bollox

Jagielka made his debut 2 years before the Battle of Bramall Lane.

Montgomery 18 months before, Tonge 12 months.

They were given a chance because the manager at the time thought so. Its that simple.

 

[Fanny magnet]

Jagielka made his debut 2 years before the Battle of Bramall Lane.

Montgomery 18 months before, Tonge 12 months.

They were given a chance because the manager at the time thought so. Its that simple.

Quite a few of our academy prospects have made their first team debut ,so that must mean they are in fact good enough because Chris wilder picked them once
Phew glad we cleared that up

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

Quite a few of our academy prospects have made their first team debut ,so that must mean they are in fact good enough because Chris wilder picked them once
Phew glad we cleared that up

The lack of knowledge about former academy players nicely avoided and brushed under the carpet, well played.

Look, I've made my points very clearly, all very easy to understand. If you think the next Maradonna is being overlooked then get on the blower to CW and let him know, for all our sakes.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

It'd be nice to get 100 but I would like to give a few kids a chance. And a few who've been on the fringes.

David Brooks, Jake Wright Jnr, even Louis Reed. Regan Slater looked shit hot against Grimsby in the paint pot too so they did prove they can play against the big boys. It's a tough one, but once, if, we drop any points (so 100 points can't actually happen) I'd give the kids a run out. Then play full strength against Chezzy to end the season on a high.

I think it would be good to give a game to those kids who might trouble the first team soon such as Brooks and Slater. I wouldn’t want to bring in huge tranches of them for the sake of it. Perhaps, once the title is won, for a game we could try:


-----------------------Moore

--------Basham------Wright-----JOC

Freeman--------------------------------Lafferty

------------------Slater—Fleck

-----------------------Brooks

--------------Sharp----------Chapman


I’d still want rotation to still give the likes of Coutts, Duffy, Hanson etc. the game time they deserve. Perhaps also try to get Done and Scougs a run out at some point so they can have their contribution to our season recognized.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

My take on it is that there is a strange fascination in some of us to watch kids play. Good, bad or Fucking useless, let's select some players who aren't yet good enough for the first team and may never be, because they are...well....young.

There are much more deserving players who are not good enough who, if anyone, should be givenarun. Done, Wilson, Scougall for example, all of whom have played a part in an outstanding season.

The kids have some important kids games to play, I believe. Let them get on with those and avarunintfestteam if and when they're good enough.

Alternatively we can cease to be a professional football club and operate like a Sunday League U-15s. Such football is available to watch at a park near you free of charge. If you're lucky there'll be some alehouse hoofing on an adjacent pitch for good measure. S2 Bladey Boyband Heaven.

Kids can only prove they are good enough and mature enough by given an opportunity. I don’t think anyone is suggesting a team full of kids for the hell of it regardless of ability. I think they’re suggesting giving a couple the chance that have performed well in the kids games. People like Brooks and Slater who have also shown glimpses of their ability in their very brief cameos in senior games. Kyle Walker only got in our team because Naysmith was injured. But it soon became apparent that he was more than good enough. If we’d chucked Harry Maguire in a bit earlier in our relegation season we might have put up more of a fight.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

As Sham 69 said . The kids are United . However they ain't good enough .

McNulty , Scougal deserve a game then , and they ain't good enough . Thank fuck Sheffield United Football Club ain't a register charity . It would be sponsor a panda .

But McNulty have Scougall have had many chances to see if they are good enough and it’s become clear that they’re probably never going to be. What’s the harm of seeing if one or two that have done well at U23 level are good enough? It might even tell us something about the recruitment we do or do not need to do in the summer….

 

[GaryHamsonsLeftBootLace]

If I were Wilder, I'd be trying to attend as many Championship games as I could between now and end of Play Offs. To CW and most of the players, the Championship is an unknown quantity. Then again, I guess so was League One, but look what happened there!

 

[Pinchy]

So, let's take stock:

We don't know whether a youngster is good enough unless we see if he 'sinks or swims'. That is exactly the same philosophy as 'givemallarun'.

In pursuit of 'sink or swim' the sinkers (and history demonstrates that they will overwhelmingly outnumber the swimmmers) will inevitably, in the course of sinking, commit fuck-ups that will lose us goals, games, points and league status, but at least we'll know that this year's Jordan Chappells and Otis Khans have had a fair crack of the whip.

There will be dozens of swimming trials every year, ensuring that we will have to select a weakened team week-in; week-out whilst that week's George Long throws a few in or the latest Little Louis gets cruelly exposed in midfield. Meanwhile, Ironside and De Juve, Models 36 and 36a respectively, conspire together to score no grown up goals whatsoever.

Of course, a single game is norrenuffgametime so this comedie noire will run and run, unlike our stay in whatever league these young tyros are sinking in at the time.

Seems like a plan, as the young 'uns say...

 

[Slim Man]

Let me get this straight - because I back the judgement of Wilder, who hasnt yet seen fit to inlcude untested academy players in the the first team, I must think that they are 'shit'?

What Im saying, if any of the academy prospects were currently making it impossible for CW to ignore, then they would be involved. Because we have secured promotion shouldn't alter his thinking.

There isn't going to be an academy prospect as good as Coutts or Fleck for example is there? Not as it stands anyway, they can only improve with first team football...
I'd like to think playing a FEW youngsters, not 11, with big potential could be anything other than detrimental to our season. David Brooks, Jake Wright Jnr and Regan Slater have all had a bit of first team football this season but not enough. Their performances for the U21's deserve at least a chance to come off the bench surely to god. It's not like I'm suggesting we invite 11 fat old blokes off the Kop is it?

 

[Fanny magnet]

The lack of knowledge about former academy players nicely avoided and brushed under the carpet, well played.

Look, I've made my points very clearly, all very easy to understand. If you think the next Maradonna is being overlooked then get on the blower to CW and let him know, for all our sakes.

You've made the same point very clearly over and over again even when I've made it look as daft as it was in the first place

As for my lack of knowledge about former academy players neither jags or tonge were products of our academy

Brush that under your fucking carpet

 

[metalblade]

If we clinch the title in any of the next two games, surely Sky will hijack things and demand any presentation of a trophy on their channel?

My thoughts too even though we could win the title at Port Vale, it would be just like those Bolton cunts to lose at Oldham on the day after, either way I think the trophy will be presented in front of the Sky cameras

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

You've made the same point very clearly over and over again even when I've made it look as daft as it was in the first place

As for my lack of knowledge about former academy players neither jags or tonge were products of our academy

Brush that under your fucking carpet

Deary me. Academy/youth team/reserves - terminology. Doesn't change the fact that they made their debuts years before the battle of Bramall Lane. Just a stupid comment by your self really, not thought through at all. Least, shows your consistency.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Because if they were the next Maradonna then Wilder might have picked up on that by now and played them.

Precisely. They are given every opportunity to excel at their own level. Those who do will be progressed further. It's natural selection in action and it's a tough world I'm afraid, but rightly so. The Givemarun philosophy really is Sunday League thinking and becoming a little embarrassing to read.[/QUOTE]


But normally those who impress at youth level are given their first opportunities at first team level in less consequential games such as cup games etc. Now that promotion is assured and the title all but, we have some games which could fall under that category (and we haven’t had many cup games as we went out early). Wilder saw fit to play the likes of Brooks, Chapman and Slater a little bit in the cup games so may take a similar view with some less crucial games coming up now. Again, it will quite rightly be only those who have impressed at youth level .Nobody is suggesting chucking them all in.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

No let's hope they (whoever fucking 'they' is) one day prove themselves worth a 'run out' [schoolboy phrase though it is]. When they do, Tufty will select them. He likes to have his best players on the pitch, though, young, old or in between. I share that philosophy.

well I haven't posted that we should play them either
I was responding to pinchys post that our academy players aren't good enough when you came wading in with a completely seperate argument defending him[/QUOTE]
But they aren't good enough for the first team yet, or CW would have included them, or do you not trust his judgement?

I dont think Pinchy needs defending, nor was that my aim, we merely share a common understanding on how academy players should be treated.[/QUOTE]



Would that common understanding not lead to a conclusion whereby it might be logical to try one or two of your best performing youth players (like Brooks and Slater) in less pressurized, less crucial games (as they become once the season’s outcome is decided, or cup games in which Wilder has selected these players).


If a youth player is head and shoulders above the first team players, then they will get a chance. If a youth player shows a lot of promise at his own level but is not clearly better than his first team counterpart, he’s not forced to get a chance as the manger might feel that the first teamer (Duffy for example) has been there and done it before so has the experience for the big pressure games and doesn’t want to rely on a kid in that situation.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

**Bangs head against brick wall**

If they were currently good enough, CW would have selected them!!

anyone who knows anything about football will tell you that plucking a youngster from.the academy and playing them in the first team is a risk by yours and pinchys criteria if they haven't played for the first team team its because they aren't good enough So I guess that means they never will it couldn't possibly be that the manager thinks now is not the time to take thAt risk with so much at stake ,or that it could setback the players development to Chuck them into such a high pressure situation


No it's because they aren't good enough ,if everyone in football had your attitude one would ever take the risk on a youngster[/QUOTE]
They will play a first team game when the first team manager deems they are good enough (technically and mentally).

That hard to grasp?

I have no knowledge, and don't need any knowledge, of how good the currently academy players are. I don't watch them. But fortunately CW does.[/QUOTE]


But he has already deemed that to be the case in cup games etc. Surely you can acknowledge the difference in circumstances in the league now that promotion is confirmed compared to say a month ago? Maybe he will think some of them are good enough (physically and mentally) for the league games with less riding on them? Personally I doubt it though. I think he has his heart set on trying to get 100 points so will go with slight variations of his strongest side for the remainder of the season.


The danger of tinkering too much is that you give the players the message that these games don’t matter as much and that can have an adverse effect of performance.

 

[I should coco]

To CW and most of the players, the Championship is an unknown quantity

I think that of the current squad, Moore, EEL, Freeman, Lafferty, O'Connell, Coutts, Clarke, Duffy, Carruthers and Sharp have all played in the Championship (as has Wilder).

The 'massive chasm' is more in the minds of our city neighbours, than the actual reality of it being just another step up.

 

[Fanny magnet]

Deary me. Academy/youth team/reserves - terminology. Doesn't change the fact that they made their debuts years before the battle of Bramall Lane. Just a stupid comment by your self really, not thought through at all. Least, shows your consistency.

they were both signed at sixteen and I'm getting a bit sick of your insults you fucking wanker you haven't listened to a word I've said twisted most of what I have said and then hurled insults so just get fucked

 

[sheffielder]

Hardly a battle to be honest. Need to not win any of last 4 for Bolton to have a chance. 4 draws is enough. The title is ours

We will have none of that attitude round here again! 4 wins will be enough

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

they were both signed at sixteen and I'm getting a bit sick of your insults you fucking wanker you haven't listened to a word I've said twisted most of what I have said and then hurled insults so just get fucked

Insults?!

The irony!

 

[PokerBlade]

The way to prove you're good enough is only by playing first team football and showing it. People mistakenly use this to commit the fallacy of saying "how will you ever know if they don't play?". The mistake is in forgetting about all the youth games, reserve games, and training time that the youth have access to in order to demonstrate their abilities. So, sure, they're always a gamble when they make their first real start, but not all gambles are equal.

The error is clear if you think about how many people you know that, in spite of never having played a game at the professional level, are blatantly not good enough.

You have to earn your chance. The youth team is not a random selection of unknown quantities. It's a selection of those with potential where the weaker ones are weeded out at each stage until eventually a select few make it as full time pros.

 

[snootyfenooty]

If a player in the academy is good enough he will be playing 1st team football. The two Kyles were identified at a very early age and fast tracked into the 1st team which, incidentally was playing at a much higher level than it is now. I think at the time it was Ron Reid who was the main protagonist and there will be someone with a similar role at the present academy. The academy staff see these boys on a daily basis and will be reporting any individual's progress to Wilder and his team who will then take the appropriate advice. That's how it works. There may be some good prospects in the new academy at the moment but a new Kyle Walker? Methinks not.