Desso

[1danewhitehouse]

And was booked and enquired about before this.

Probably round about the time we were struggling to get the Fulham cup game on.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Ok then Pete you want an answer, I suggest you ask whoever said Murphy was sold to pay for the Desso because it wasn't me and for what it is worth I don't believe he was sold to fund the Desso. My argument is that at the time the club was saying we didn't have to sell players but that is exactly what they did whether they wanted away is immaterial we didn't replace Murphy or Maguire the season before unless you think Woolford and McGahey were adequate. Why was there no adequate replacements? why couldn't we get a transfer over the line yet at the same time money was available for a new pitch? Anyone thinking the two aren't linked probably still believes in fairies and Father Christmas.
Your turn now Pete .......
Did last seasons squad of no hoper's even get us anywhere near the play off's on the Desso?
Did J Wallace suddenly become injury free or any of the rest never pick up an injury by playing on a Desso?
Has the Desso brought in significant income from other events?

I’ll have a bash although I suspect the answer should come from someone more pro-Desso than me (I’m relatively neutral given my lack of knowledge of the cost benefit analysis).


1. Why didn’t we bring in adequate replacements?


Because managers decided to spunk their budgets on players in other positions (Brayford, Coutts, Done, Freeman, Higdon, Alcock, JCR, J. Wallace, McEveley, Hammond, Sammon, Woolford etc.). If the budgets were managed properly by the managers, you would think we could have established a balanced squad as we have this year.


Although I share your frustration at the constant selling of the family silver after the club told us they would no longer have to do it.


2. Did last seasons squad of no hopers even get us anywhere near the playoffs on the Desso?

Not particularly near (we vaguely challenged but then fell away). I don’t think anyone is arguing that the Desso could singlehandedly turn a poor team into a good one. If you disagree, please show an example of someone saying that.


3. Did James Wallace suddenly become injury free? Did the rest never pick up any injuries? Well, James Wallace is fucked and it will take a lot more than a Desso pitch to fix him. As for the rest, I’m not aware of anyone suffering a bad injury on our pitch since the Desso has been installed. It’s not an exact science to say that the Desso has prevented injury but neither is it unreasonable to say that playing on very poor surfaces is more likely to result in players being injured. Some believe Miller did his ACL as a result of a poor surface. The same has been said about Cuvelier on Vale’s poor pitch.



4. Has the Desso brought in significant income from other events?


I wouldn’t have thought so. I think we had some sort of circus event there once and there’s talk of Kell Brook fighting there. I’m not sure there’s been much else. Perhaps there will be in the future though.


Now I’ll ask a couple of questions:


1. Do you know that if we hadn’t spent the money on the Desso, it could have been spent on the playing squad under SCMP?


2. Would you have had faith in Adkins and Clough getting us promoted if their budget for the year had been increased by around £1million?


3. Do you know the comparative maintenance costs of the Desso compared to the old pitch?


4. Do you know how much money we lose when a home game is postponed because of an unplayable pitch?


The reason I ask number 3 and 4 is that for all we know, the Desso pitch might pay for itself in a few years time. My understanding is that in a big company, before investing large sums on a project like this, the accountants will usually be tasked with calculating the payback period of such an investment, considering the opportunity cost etc.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

There was a danger we had peaked, and I think I wasn't the one who raised it.

I have been very confident of Wilder shaking off the blip. This being further reinforced by us not flogging on field talent to shore up finances and spare-cash follies.

What about next season and McCabe, PB? Confident he'll plogh cash in as he promised? You seem not. Mebbes the stand needs a new coat of paint, eh?

pommpey

I’m not confident that the owners will invest enough money to satisfy the expectations of a large contingent of our fanbase. I am reasonably confident that we will run at a loss meaning the owners will have put some money in despite increased turnover. I’m confident our wage bill next year will be higher than this year and I’m confident we’ll pay fees for at least a couple of incoming players. I’m reasonably confident (and really hope I’m not wrong) that pricing will remain sensible (albeit higher than this season).


I’m not remotely confident that we will fend off bids if a Prem club comes in for any of our players.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I'm not angry about this season. I am disappointed in previous failures to get out of the division where we are long overdue some success, and similarly disappointed people don't see the damage people like McCabe has done since we dropped out of the PL with shit appointments, puzzling player floggings and odd acquisitions. I'll be very disappointed if, after all the shit the club and its fans have had to endure, season upon season, him and HRH don't fulfill their pledge and give us Game Changing Investments, so we can 'think Liverpool'.

As it were.

pommpey

I think the vast majority do see the damage McCabe has done with shit appointments, player sales and acquisitions. I don’t think anyone will argue that our managerial appointments, and player trading have been sound since we got relegated from the PL.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Sanguine?



sanguine
ˈsaŋɡwɪn/
adjective

1. 1.
   optimistic or positive, especially in an apparently bad or difficult situation.
   "he is sanguine about prospects for the global economy"
   synonyms: optimistic, bullish, hopeful, buoyant, positive, disposed to look on the bright side, confident, cheerful, cheery, bright, assured; More
   
   
   
   
   Shome mishtake shurely?
   
   
   

In pommpey’s defence, the ‘sanguine’ comment was in relation to our January blip and Bert has posted a comment from our awful start at the end of August. It provides no evidence as to whether pommpey was sanguine or not when we lost to Fleetwood.

 

[Pinchy]

I’m not confident that the owners will invest enough money to satisfy the expectations of a large contingent of our fanbase. I am reasonably confident that we will run at a loss meaning the owners will have put some money in despite increased turnover. I’m confident our wage bill next year will be higher than this year and I’m confident we’ll pay fees for at least a couple of incoming players. I’m reasonably confident (and really hope I’m not wrong) that pricing will remain sensible (albeit higher than this season).


I’m not remotely confident that we will fend off bids if a Prem club comes in for any of our players.

There are maybe two or three clubs in the world [I would suggest two only] who can 'fend off' bids from clubs cash rich from obscene TV money and higher in the pecking order than themselves. Then there's China...

Which Championship clubs do you think could fend off bids from Premiership clubs, assuming, as would inevitably be the case, that the player wanted to go?

 

[Pinchy]

I’ll have a bash although I suspect the answer should come from someone more pro-Desso than me (I’m relatively neutral given my lack of knowledge of the cost benefit analysis).


1. Why didn’t we bring in adequate replacements?


Because managers decided to spunk their budgets on players in other positions (Brayford, Coutts, Done, Freeman, Higdon, Alcock, JCR, J. Wallace, McEveley, Hammond, Sammon, Woolford etc.). If the budgets were managed properly by the managers, you would think we could have established a balanced squad as we have this year.


Although I share your frustration at the constant selling of the family silver after the club told us they would no longer have to do it.


2. Did last seasons squad of no hopers even get us anywhere near the playoffs on the Desso?

Not particularly near (we vaguely challenged but then fell away). I don’t think anyone is arguing that the Desso could singlehandedly turn a poor team into a good one. If you disagree, please show an example of someone saying that.


3. Did James Wallace suddenly become injury free? Did the rest never pick up any injuries? Well, James Wallace is fucked and it will take a lot more than a Desso pitch to fix him. As for the rest, I’m not aware of anyone suffering a bad injury on our pitch since the Desso has been installed. It’s not an exact science to say that the Desso has prevented injury but neither is it unreasonable to say that playing on very poor surfaces is more likely to result in players being injured. Some believe Miller did his ACL as a result of a poor surface. The same has been said about Cuvelier on Vale’s poor pitch.



4. Has the Desso brought in significant income from other events?


I wouldn’t have thought so. I think we had some sort of circus event there once and there’s talk of Kell Brook fighting there. I’m not sure there’s been much else. Perhaps there will be in the future though.


Now I’ll ask a couple of questions:


1. Do you know that if we hadn’t spent the money on the Desso, it could have been spent on the playing squad under SCMP?


2. Would you have had faith in Adkins and Clough getting us promoted if their budget for the year had been increased by around £1million?


3. Do you know the comparative maintenance costs of the Desso compared to the old pitch?


4. Do you know how much money we lose when a home game is postponed because of an unplayable pitch?


The reason I ask number 3 and 4 is that for all we know, the Desso pitch might pay for itself in a few years time. My understanding is that in a big company, before investing large sums on a project like this, the accountants will usually be tasked with calculating the payback period of such an investment, considering the opportunity cost etc.

Leaving aside all the costs implications, may I offer, with some trepidation given my audience, the controversial view that it is inherently desirable for very good footballers to have a very good surface to play on?

 

[NE Blade]

If anyone ever thought the lane pitch was a bad investment ,have a look that potato field we played on today. An ability leveller if ever there was one ,seen better in Concord.

If that's the strength of your argument ,well you have a pretty shit argument to be fair. It is now March ,we have one player out injured ,Clarke ,who was injured before he came ,we picked up at least 3 on Saturday ,coincidence ? We play almost the same side week in week out ,Adkins didn't because he was a shit manager ,nothing to do with the pitch if you are still hankering after last season.

In all likelihood playing on a decent surface has had a positive impact on our season, I'm not denying that. But we are talking small percentage points. It's the new manager and players that have made the HUGE difference. It's the fact that every time we have a game postponed or we play on a bad pitch that we have to hear this repeated nonsense that gets tiresome. We have had some great results away from home this season including on some shit pitches. That isn't a shit argument; it's a fact.

The money for the Desso could have been spent on players instead. It wasn't. Time to move on and not drag this crap up repeatedly. It's fine to disagree with other posters without constantly hounding them. Please do us all a favour and give it a rest.

 

[Sean Thornton]

In pommpey’s defence, the ‘sanguine’ comment was in relation to our January blip and Bert has posted a comment from our awful start at the end of August. It provides no evidence as to whether pommpey was sanguine or not when we lost to Fleetwood.

Actually there's no evidence of optimism or positivity whatsoever that I can see.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

There are maybe two or three clubs in the world [I would suggest two only] who can 'fend off' bids from clubs cash rich from obscene TV money and higher in the pecking order than themselves. Then there's China...

Which Championship clubs do you think could fend off bids from Premiership clubs, assuming, as would inevitably be the case, that the player wanted to go?

I think there comes a point where it's impossible for all clubs to keep players (except bar the odd ones as you mention). But I also think we are poorer than most when it comes to fending off bids and/ or holding out for top fees. Basically, I think over the years we have been a soft touch in that department and don't see any evidence of it changing. Scunny allegedly turned down £4million for Van Veen this January despite the player wanting to go.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Actually there's no evidence of optimism or positivity whatsoever that I can see.

I've no idea if there is or not. I was on holiday at the time and wasn't reading this forum. I was merely pointing out that Bert's example that didn't relate to the relevant period so wasn't evidence of the topic at hand. I've not seen evidence either way of pommpey's attitude when we had our January blip.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I've no idea if there is or not. I was on holiday at the time and wasn't reading this forum. I was merely pointing out that Bert's example that didn't relate to the relevant period so wasn't evidence of the topic at hand. I've not seen evidence either way of pommpey's attitude when we had our January blip.

Another holiday boast FFS .




There's non in the post. I don't have clue what's in his head so that's all I can go on?

 

[NE Blade]

I can accept the argument that spending that much money on the pitch might not have been the best use of funds whilst the team has been so poor. But it’s subjective and posters are entitled to disagree with the counter-argument being that Clough still had a very healthy budget to compete for promotion but just didn’t get value for money in the transfer market.


I disagree that the board have learned their lesson regarding selling the family silver. We’ve sold more of it this season than ever (well, for a while) but 2 things are different this season:-


1. All of our most saleable assets were young prospects who were not yet integral to the first team so the damage of selling them hasn’t been as visible.


2. We have a manager who has actually used the funds well and on the whole, got value for money in the transfer market.


A test of whether they have learned their lesson might come in the summer if bids start coming in for Fleck (assuming normal service is resumed by him after Saturday’s blip).

I agree with a lot of that 1danewhitehouse. We haven't weakened the first team this season and that has been key. That and appointing a manager who actually knows what he's doing.

I don't have any problem at all with the argument that the Desso is a decent investment. It's also a perfectly valid argument that Clough had more than enough budget to do his job and failed. Another signing or two might have made all the difference or no difference whatsoever. We'll never know and I'm past caring. The only reason I commented on this thread in the first place is because it gets tiresome that it's brought up again and again every time we play on a bad pitch or have a game postponed.

 

[Pinchy]

I think there comes a point where it's impossible for all clubs to keep players (except bar the odd ones as you mention). But I also think we are poorer than most when it comes to fending off bids and/ or holding out for top fees. Basically, I think over the years we have been a soft touch in that department and don't see any evidence of it changing. Scunny allegedly turned down £4million for Van Veen this January despite the player wanting to go.

Do you think that was a wise decision. You are a sensible chap and I expect you realise that selling a player [even a good one] can be in the best interests of a club. I heard it was £8m but had I been Scunthorpe he'd be on the slow boat right now for £4m...

To return to an example at our own club. Despite the Agenda Brigade's stubborn refusal to accept it, Tufty wanted to sell 'best player' Adams. He couldn't get rid of him quick enough.

 

[Pinchy]

I agree with a lot of that 1danewhitehouse. We haven't weakened the first team this season and that has been key. That and appointing a manager who actually knows what he's doing.

I don't have any problem at all with the argument that the Desso is a decent investment. It's also a perfectly valid argument that Clough had more than enough budget to do his job and failed. Another signing or two might have made all the difference or no difference whatsoever. We'll never know and I'm past caring. The only reason I commented on this thread in the first place is because it gets tiresome that it's brought up again and again every time we play on a bad pitch or have a game postponed.

Who do you think brings it up again and again? That's a rhetorical question, by the way...

 

[NE Blade]

We drew at home to Rochdale - hence the Desso isn't worth it.

We weren't promoted last season, so the Desso isn't worth it.

I don't really care either way, but this logic is absolute statistical nonsense.

Aside from the usual "massive" blade hater, there's a few others entering the race for muppet of the century.

UTB

Who do you think brings it up again and again? That's a rhetorical question, by the way...

This thread was actually started by someone commenting on us playing away from home on a bad pitch and concluding that therefore the Desso was totally worth it! The comment about drawing at home to Rochdale was merely highlighting that it isn't as simple as that. It wasn't a statistical argument...

Upgrading our pitch has probably had a small percentage impact on this season. It's the new manager and players that have made the difference. To pretend otherwise makes you a real 'muppet of the century' contender.

 

[Pinchy]

This thread was actually started by someone commenting on us playing away from home on a bad pitch and concluding that therefore the Desso was totally worth it! The comment about drawing at home to Rochdale was merely highlighting that it isn't as simple as that. It wasn't a statistical argument...

Upgrading our pitch has probably had a small percentage impact on this season. It's the new manager and players that have made the difference. To pretend otherwise makes you a real 'muppet of the century' contender.

I don't think anyone has pretended that. There are far more worthy candidates for a "Kermit" on here. One of them is the guy who keeps on and on and on about the desirability of having a rubbish pitch...

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Another holiday boast FFS .

View attachment 24103

What can I say, I listened to Strappy about Agent Jim.........

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Do you think that was a wise decision. You are a sensible chap and I expect you realise that selling a player [even a good one] can be in the best interests of a club. I heard it was £8m but had I been Scunthorpe he'd be on the slow boat right now for £4m...

To return to an example at our own club. Despite the Agenda Brigade's stubborn refusal to accept it, Tufty wanted to sell 'best player' Adams. He couldn't get rid of him quick enough.

Given that I don't think Scunny will go up, it could be argued it was a poor decision not to sell. That said, had they sold and then faltered, blame would have been put at the chairman's door and the support could "turn". What it will help them with though is their ability to bargain next time a club comes for one of their players. They clearly won't be made mugs of and will say no if they choose. We publicly peddle the story that we are entirely powerless to stop it happening and clubs know they will get their man without paying silly money when we are the club involved. That's one of my biggest gripes.

I take your point re Adams but overall, we are very passive when a higher club comes for our players and other clubs know it.

 

[coolhandluke]

It appears Rochdale shitty pitch was the reason CW took Hanson off on Saturday . Check out CW's latest YouTube interview on the matter .

Thank the good lord McCabe for our Desso

 

[Bert]

I take your point re Adams but overall, we are very passive when a higher club comes for our players and other clubs know it

Evidence of this?

 

[Barney]

Evidence of this?

Quinn
Blackman
McDonald
Murphy
Adams
DCL
Ramsdale

 

[Sean Thornton]

Quinn
Blackman
McDonald
Murphy
Adams
DCL
Ramsdale

Well seeing as the first name is nonsense in the context of the question and in your zeal you forgot Maguire is it worth pointing out they all went to clubs in a better position than us.

You could also have added Slew.

But Bert did ask for evidence so choose one of them and provide it.

 

[siblade]

Quinn - high wage earner we needed to get off the wage bill
Blackman - fair enough
McDonald - wanted to leave and had a clause in his contract
Murphy - wanted to get into Scotland squad and wanted to leave
Adams - CW wanted him gone
DCL - CW happy for him to go
Ramsdale - CW happy for him to go

What's the issue here apart from Blackman?

 

[Barney]

Well seeing as the first name is nonsense in the context of the question and in your zeal you forgot Maguire is it worth pointing out they all went to clubs in a better position than us.

Oh yes, how could I forget? Maguire - one more for good measure. Lol.

 

[coolhandluke]

It appears Rochdale shitty pitch was the reason CW took Hanson off on Saturday . Check out CW's latest YouTube interview on the matter .

Thank the good lord McCabe for our Desso

Edit : I should have included the link ...... my bad .

 

[alcoblade]

l

This thread was actually started by someone commenting on us playing away from home on a bad pitch and concluding that therefore the Desso was totally worth it! The comment about drawing at home to Rochdale was merely highlighting that it isn't as simple as that. It wasn't a statistical argument...

Upgrading our pitch has probably had a small percentage impact on this season. It's the new manager and players that have made the difference. To pretend otherwise makes you a real 'muppet of the century' contender.

I haven't contended otherwise though. I'd go with a "small statistical advantage".

You made the Rochdale reference. So we have a winner, it seems.

 

[Bert]

Quinn - high wage earner we needed to get off the wage bill
Blackman - fair enough
McDonald - wanted to leave and had a clause in his contract
Murphy - wanted to get into Scotland squad and wanted to leave
Adams - CW wanted him gone
DCL - CW happy for him to go
Ramsdale - CW happy for him to go

What's the issue here apart from Blackman?

So every player we've sold we practically gave away and no doubt we paid double for those that we signed because the whole football world knows what mugs we are?
Right...

 

[Fulwood Blade]

So every player we've sold we practically gave away and no doubt we paid double for those that we signed because the whole football world knows what mugs we are?
Right...

Bert - it suits the agenda of some of our posters sadly

UTB

 

[Sean Thornton]

So every player we've sold we practically gave away and no doubt we paid double for those that we signed because the whole football world knows what mugs we are?
Right...

And of course even though we sold those players well below forum market value, there was a distinct lack of other clubs offering us even a bit more, let alone entering a bidding war.