Coutts or Carruthers?

[WestwoodBlade]

Coutts appears to be vice captain now, which would definitely give him the edge over Carruthers for a big game like this. Wilder sees him as a communicator, as previous people said he orchestrates the midfield. Big fan of Carruthers, but Coutts definitely edges him out for this one.

 

[Grey Blade]

There was always a decent player in there wasn't there?

I just wasn't ever sure if he was 100% fit or just not up for the challenge, I don't think I ever saw him make a clean tackle. I suppose it was a bit of both but he's proved me wrong definitely.

I think the problem for Coutts was that Nigel Clough knew he was very talented and played him regardless of the fact that he was still not back to full fitness.

Nigel Adkins then played him out of position (and still possibly not fully fit). At the same time playing Dean Hammond and not realising he was well past his best.

When Chris Wilder took over I think Coutts finally regained his fitness and CW played him in his best position and his real talent showed through

 

[GrayBlade]

I think the problem for Coutts was that Nigel Clough knew he was very talented and played him regardless of the fact that he was still not back to full fitness.

Nigel Adkins then played him out of position (and still possibly not fully fit). At the same time playing Dean Hammond and not realising he was well past his best.

When Chris Wilder took over I think Coutts finally regained his fitness and CW played him in his best position and his real talent showed through

Yes I think you're right Grey. Hey this is like agreeing with myself.

 

[GrayBlade]

Yes Gray, but what did Wilder say to bring this turnaround about? Did he encourage? Did he suggest a personal approach that would allow the 'hidden' player to escape? Or did Wilder whisper in Coutts' ear that he had photos that he'd make public unless Coutts pulled his finger out?

Haha. It's not a if he tried to hide it though is it? Maybe he's got shares in the company and the bags were just advertising.

 

[Grey Blade]

Yes I think you're right Grey. Hey this is like agreeing with myself.

Had a similar feeling!

 

[boo radley]

If you all think he's reached his potential then he'd better watch out. He has so much more to give and learn to do before he becomes anything like the complete or "Proper Footballer".
Why, anyone would think he's about to become a Blades legend and he's no where near it.
Whilst he is doing somethings well, he is so static at times he may as well get a chair whilst he waits. Now this may well be down to Management instructions and if that is the case then I accept that CW and his team are far superior to me or anyone else on this forum.
His concentration levels whilst we are on the defence are so low and he seems to want everyone else to defend areas that he should.
If CW plays Mr Static then I accept that he knows best. If only some others could accept that CW knows best whilst playing other players that other forum members have given names to.
I have to also acknowledge that the very fact that I have noticed Mr Static s deficiencies is multiplied by the fact I am obviously looking for them and I have to try to be more impartial and get away from this. They have been highlighted by some very well respected members of this forum though.

 

[sitwell]

If you all think he's reached his potential then he'd better watch out. He has so much more to give and learn to do before he becomes anything like the complete or "Proper Footballer".
Why, anyone would think he's about to become a Blades legend and he's no where near it.
Whilst he is doing somethings well, he is so static at times he may as well get a chair whilst he waits. Now this may well be down to Management instructions and if that is the case then I accept that CW and his team are far superior to me or anyone else on this forum.
His concentration levels whilst we are on the defence are so low and he seems to want everyone else to defend areas that he should.
If CW plays Mr Static then I accept that he knows best. If only some others could accept that CW knows best whilst playing other players that other forum members have given names to.
I have to also acknowledge that the very fact that I have noticed Mr Static s deficiencies is multiplied by the fact I am obviously looking for them and I have to try to be more impartial and get away from this. They have been highlighted by some very well respected members of this forum though.

Why the dislike you have of him ,surely you can admire a player of his ability ,I know you have coached and played at the same level as me ,I cannot see why you dontlike him.

 

[Esablade]

If you all think he's reached his potential then he'd better watch out. He has so much more to give and learn to do before he becomes anything like the complete or "Proper Footballer".
Why, anyone would think he's about to become a Blades legend and he's no where near it.
Whilst he is doing somethings well, he is so static at times he may as well get a chair whilst he waits. Now this may well be down to Management instructions and if that is the case then I accept that CW and his team are far superior to me or anyone else on this forum.
His concentration levels whilst we are on the defence are so low and he seems to want everyone else to defend areas that he should.
If CW plays Mr Static then I accept that he knows best. If only some others could accept that CW knows best whilst playing other players that other forum members have given names to.
I have to also acknowledge that the very fact that I have noticed Mr Static s deficiencies is multiplied by the fact I am obviously looking for them and I have to try to be more impartial and get away from this. They have been highlighted by some very well respected members of this forum though.

I agree with much of this about Coutts mobility, it's always been an issue for him.
In fact to blow my own trumpet a bit (ahem) I posted this way back when he was still the hate figure. (Esablade,May 12, 2015)

Coutts is a good player, you can see that.

Unfortunately he reminds me of lot's of 'good players' I played with in semi-pro leagues. You can see they can play a bit but they can't compete off the ball because injury hampers their movement.

I've mixed views on whether Coutts can get back up to his previous levels of performance elsewhere, but suspect Nigel will give him the summer to work at it...Wallace is in the same boat eh?

Even 'Adkins' agreed with me!

Spot on.

It has to be about (the right) fitness targets for Coutts.

I've been delighted however by his transformation under Wilder/Knill and seeing some of the really great performances he's put in this season...he's certainly more mobile than previously!

P.S- I believe that when he came to us he'd had a serous long term injury?

 

[boo radley]

Why the dislike you have of him ,surely you can admire a player of his ability ,I know you have coached and played at the same level as me ,I cannot see why you dontlike him.

I'm sure I'd shake his hand and smile just as much as any other fan if I met him so there is no dislike there. If we had a conversation about how he was playing I would tell him where "I" felt he was letting us and the team down and I have documented that many times, as have others.
I want him to become our best player ever. As I do every other player who plays for us.
Can I ask you, do you not see his lack of taking responsibility in defending?

 

[itsinyerblood]

And while we're on-topic, does anyone know what Coutts' contractual situation is? An thoughts on whether he'll re-sign, or whether he'll see out his contract and become a free agent?

 

[sitwell]

I'm sure I'd shake his hand and smile just as much as any other fan if I met him so there is no dislike there. If we had a conversation about how he was playing I would tell him where "I" felt he was letting us and the team down and I have documented that many times, as have others.
I want him to become our best player ever. As I do every other player who plays for us.
Can I ask you, do you not see his lack of taking responsibility in defending?

I would much rather look at what a player can do than what he cant ,he is very very good at what he does and that helps make us a good side.

 

[boo radley]

I would much rather look at what a player can do than what he cant ,he is very very good at what he does and that helps make us a good side.

So that means to me that you accept he does not take responsibility and loses concentration at times.

 

[Pinchy]

So that means to me that you accept he does not take responsibility and loses concentration at times.

When you've finished with this rather silly criticism of an excellent proper footballer, can we, doing our best not to dissolve into fits of convulsive laughter, discuss your favourite midfielders....

 

[boo radley]

When you've finished with this rather silly criticism of an excellent proper footballer, can we, doing our best not to dissolve into fits of convulsive laughter, discuss your favourite midfielders....

At times you are so funny. Anyway I thought you said they were all "Proper Footballers"?

 

[I should coco]

discuss your favourite midfielders...

Monty
Bob Booker
Chris Kamara
Billy Whitehusrt (when he was blowing a bit and just stood in the middle of the field)

 

[nopigfansintown]

And while we're on-topic, does anyone know what Coutts' contractual situation is? An thoughts on whether he'll re-sign, or whether he'll see out his contract and become a free agent?

Has a one year extension trigger in his deal along with Basham, Scougall and a few others.

 

[sitwell]

So that means to me that you accept he does not take responsibility and loses concentration at times.

No what he does is vital to us ,would you expect Jake wright to dribble and cross the ball for Fleck to head in at the far post ? All players have their jobs ,what I see when Coutts play is , us controlling the pace of the game and dominating teams ,almost everytime he plays ,we missed that at Peterboro.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

No what he does is vital to us ,would you expect Jake wright to dribble and cross the ball for Fleck to head in at the far post ? All players have their jobs ,what I see when Coutts play is , us controlling the pace of the game and dominating teams ,almost everytime he plays ,we missed that at Peterboro.

I agree with you about him being one of the vital elements in how we play - and yes, I thought we missed him v P'boro. I think we missed him even more away v Bury. Both he and Duffy came on and in the last 20 minutes we were back to dominating he opposition. We could easily have lost that game when CW rested them to the bench. BAsham played in the middle and we just didn't function the same.

I also have to agree with Boo - Coutts lacks mobility and this was shown when Fleetwood hit us a few times with pace on the break. - Coutts struggled to get back, but in this division we are getting away with it most of the time. I, like you have defended Coutts from when he joined, but if we are to take this 3 man defence up to a higher level, we need a player who sits deeper than the rest AND can help them out when needed.

Coutts is vital to us now, in this division and how we play. Not convinced he is the future though.

UTB

 

[tedster]

Coutts all day long.

Thought Carruthers was off the pace at times at Peterborough.

Carruthers was ok at peterborough but thats it.Coutts all day,every day

 

[boo radley]

No what he does is vital to us ,would you expect Jake wright to dribble and cross the ball for Fleck to head in at the far post ? All players have their jobs ,what I see when Coutts play is , us controlling the pace of the game and dominating teams ,almost everytime he plays ,we missed that at Peterboro.

OK, I did not go to Peterborough but watched what I could from the streaming and listened to the game and in both instances it did not look like or sound like we missed Coutts. Whilst I accept that may not be as good as personal live view it appears that you are at the other extreme to me. As said earlier my judgement may be biased to look for his mistakes and it got a mention on the radio the other night in commentary about him nearly costing us because he lost it on the edge of our box.
I see him as the least valuable of our three regular midfield players and I certainly would like to see him improve (as would CW and AK from what they have said in interviews).The new competition may help him to do this.
I will be very happy for him and us if he does so.

 

[South Bucks]

Just another opinion from being at both Posh and Brizzle Rovers, I quite liked the potential of Carruthers at Southend and Posh, his first instinct seemed to be to try to go forward but don't think he was completely match fit and this led to a few wayward passes.

Coutts at Bristol was the same old Coutts for me, great on he ball and ace at picking it up from one defender, running across the pitch and giving it to another defender without nmaking any real progress. Then participating in triangular passing on the flanks until we eventually lose it to the opposition without getting enough decent or early balls into the box. A waste of time. If only Coutts would try to go forward instead of sideways sometimes and if only the forwards made a few runs to open up a passing opportunity instead of standing like statues.

Ultimately in both recent games although we had most of the possession it was not particularly effective possession. At posh we got lucky and at bristol they realised they could take more chances at the back and push on in the last 15 minutes and nearly won it when we should have had the game put to bed long before. Lots of blades around me were quite frustrated at Bristol, too many team changes and lots of slow possession but not that much of a threat if the truth be told.

In the first half at Bristol Coutts lost the ball when almost last man and they nearly scored from it. In the second half he took several ineffective corners and from one they won it on the edge of their box and ran straight up the other end and nearly scored with Coutts and our midfield just jogging back.

Ineffective possession doesn't win matches which is what concerns me with Coutts, wish someone would turn his internal compass through 90 degrees, and is why I prefer more attack minded midfielders. Efforts on goal win matches not pretty passing.

 

[sitwell]

Possession of the ball is what the game is about ,if you don't have it you don't score you don't win ,Coutts hardly ever gives the ball away ,an ability which has cost many footballers. Stephen Quinn could have been a terrific player in the premier league but the only thing that let him down was ball retention and if you lose it say against Arsenal you don't see it again for 10 minutes.
Coutts and Hanson have played in the same team once. we won 4-0, just saying like.

 

[Pinchy]

I do despair sometimes....

If only we'd had an "attack minded" footballer instead of Paul Coutts we might have got vital wins against Bury and Northampton, instead of those frustrating draws. What a difference those extra four points might have made.....

 

[JohnDenver]

It'll be fascinating if we get the chance to see Coutts play at a higher level. He's strong enough and easily talented enough. But his weakness is what he contributes when we don't have the ball, and that will be exposed by better opponents. Can he add the intensity and snap required to become an extremely good player?

 

[ForgeBlade]

I'd go with Coutts, Fleck and Duffy from the start. They're the 3 that have got us in this position, and have to be considered our "strongest" starting midfield.

However, having Carruthers and O'Shea ready and willing to come off the bench puts us in a position we've not been in for years. We've got quality in depth in midfield, and that can only benefit us in the run-in. For me the next 2 games are the most important in our recent history...6 points and all the pressure is on scunny/bolton to not only win their games in hand, but also keep pace with us after that. 4 points almost as good. Anything less and suddenly it becomes a lot more open again.

 

[Sheffsteel]

I'd go with Coutts, Fleck and Duffy from the start. They're the 3 that have got us in this position, and have to be considered our "strongest" starting midfield.

However, having Carruthers and O'Shea ready and willing to come off the bench puts us in a position we've not been in for years. We've got quality in depth in midfield, and that can only benefit us in the run-in. For me the next 2 games are the most important in our recent history...6 points and all the pressure is on scunny/bolton to not only win their games in hand, but also keep pace with us after that. 4 points almost as good. Anything less and suddenly it becomes a lot more open again.

Don't need to post now. The post above sums up exactly my thoughts.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Just another opinion from being at both Posh and Brizzle Rovers, I quite liked the potential of Carruthers at Southend and Posh, his first instinct seemed to be to try to go forward but don't think he was completely match fit and this led to a few wayward passes.

Coutts at Bristol was the same old Coutts for me, great on he ball and ace at picking it up from one defender, running across the pitch and giving it to another defender without nmaking any real progress. Then participating in triangular passing on the flanks until we eventually lose it to the opposition without getting enough decent or early balls into the box. A waste of time. If only Coutts would try to go forward instead of sideways sometimes and if only the forwards made a few runs to open up a passing opportunity instead of standing like statues.

Ultimately in both recent games although we had most of the possession it was not particularly effective possession. At posh we got lucky and at bristol they realised they could take more chances at the back and push on in the last 15 minutes and nearly won it when we should have had the game put to bed long before. Lots of blades around me were quite frustrated at Bristol, too many team changes and lots of slow possession but not that much of a threat if the truth be told.

In the first half at Bristol Coutts lost the ball when almost last man and they nearly scored from it. In the second half he took several ineffective corners and from one they won it on the edge of their box and ran straight up the other end and nearly scored with Coutts and our midfield just jogging back.

Ineffective possession doesn't win matches which is what concerns me with Coutts, wish someone would turn his internal compass through 90 degrees, and is why I prefer more attack minded midfielders. Efforts on goal win matches not pretty passing.

He seems to gamble more in the last few minutes of games sometimes to good effect. Bury and Northampton home games are springing to mind. He drove forward on both occasions to set up late winners. I'd like to see more of that from him throughout games. He has the ability to do it.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Don't really see what the problem is here:

1) we are top of the league - by 5 clear points.
2) we have got here with Coutts and Fleck in CM pulling the strings.
3) We don't need to win the league by 20 points - 1 will do, but of course 20 would be fabulous.
4) Carruthers offers a difference to Coutts - Coutts has contibuted greatly to getting us to this point in time.
5) because of 4), Coutts deserves the opportunity now, as he has done nothing not to deserve it.

UTB

PS: I like Carruthers but he is a player who does his work around the 18 yard box - not the ugly stuff Coutts does.