The demise of our best ever team

[8lade]

Cerberus Blade I only remember seeing Woodward play out of the team you mention, so for comparison (and fun before anybody gets on the highhorse) could you venture a guess at a more recent player who each of the players from 1970 resemble in playing style. I imagine this will take a lot of thought as I can't even come up with anybody for Woodward.

 

[BornOnShorehamStreet]

My dad never forgave United for dismantling its best ever chance to be a top English side. After the sale of Tony Currie, he only went 3 more times before he died in 2013, and that's only because I kept mithering him.

To push previously fanatical supporters to the point where they just don't give a toss anymore is a sad thing. I hope I don't get like that.

We've all been close this last couple of seasons though haven't we?

 

[Sean Thornton]

It wasn't that good a team, they didn't win anything. We have just immortalised the ordinary because it's better than the shit were used to.

Of course being United players they weren't allowed to hang around long enough to prove anything let alone threaten to win anything.

For all the talk of death in this thread, and bearing in mind that everyone and everything eventually dies the saddest thing is that in another 100 years there will still be a few Sheffield United fans scattered about the metropolis talking about the day 190 years ago when we last won something.

The future fans of Wendy, Forest, Derby, Leicester (again), Leeds, Watford, Crystal Palace, Norwich, Ipswich, QPR, Fulham, Brighton, Portsmouth, Southampton, Coventry, Wolves, West Brom, Birmingham, Sunderland, Bolton, Blackburn, Wigan, Burnley, Stoke, Hull, Middlesboro, Swansea, Cardiff, West Ham and probably a dozen other clubs smaller than these will have had a few proper celebrations over that time and not feel the need to immortalise the average teams they will have watched also.

That's every medium sized club in the business that will have something tangible to celebrate at some time in the next 100 years.................all except one of course.

Ordinary? Yeah okay.

The two major sales from that side were Currie and Salmons. Both had eight years at the club.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

It wasn't that good a team, they didn't win anything. We have just immortalised the ordinary because it's better than the shit were used to.

Of course being United players they weren't allowed to hang around long enough to prove anything let alone threaten to win anything.

For all the talk of death in this thread, and bearing in mind that everyone and everything eventually dies the saddest thing is that in another 100 years there will still be a few Sheffield United fans scattered about the metropolis talking about the day 190 years ago when we last won something.

The future fans of Wendy, Forest, Derby, Leicester (again), Leeds, Watford, Crystal Palace, Norwich, Ipswich, QPR, Fulham, Brighton, Portsmouth, Southampton, Coventry, Wolves, West Brom, Birmingham, Sunderland, Bolton, Blackburn, Wigan, Burnley, Stoke, Hull, Middlesboro, Swansea, Cardiff, West Ham and probably a dozen other clubs smaller than these will have had a few proper celebrations over that time and not feel the need to immortalise the average teams they will have watched also.

That's every medium sized club in the business that will have something tangible to celebrate at some time in the next 100 years.................all except one of course.

Bit harsh. Terrible in the cup competitions granted, but in the 1974-5 season they were a couple of decent results away from being League Champions. In fact the home game against eventual champions Derby was one that stands out, we lost 2-1 but it could and probably should have been a home win which would have left us on 51 points at end of the season, level with Derby. Fine margins and all that!

 

[Silent Blade]

, but in the 1974-5 season they were a couple of decent results away from being League Champions. In fact the home game against eventual champions Derby was one that stands out, we lost 2-1 but it could and probably should have been a home win which would have left us on 51 points at end of the season, level with Derby. Fine margins and all that!

And had the score for the home game against Derby (a very good match with either team having chances to win but Derby got the late winner) been reversed then a win in the last game against Birmingham would have made us champions

 

[Silent Blade]

and the last 8 in 1959 (lost to 3rd division Norwich after drawing at home)

Archie Clark was the manager then, Harris appointment as our new manager was a month later

 

[Revolution]

And had the score for the home game against Derby (a very good match with either team having chances to win but Derby got the late winner) been reversed then a win in the last game against Birmingham would have made us champions

I read once that one oddity that year was that had it been 3 points for a win, there would have been a different champion: Ipswich, who finished third, would have won the league.

That was of course the only post war season not featuring Man U in the top flight.

 

[Cyprus Blade]

My father, who watched from the late 1920's, always maintained that the best United team he saw was the 1938-39 promotion team - which because of WW2 never saw its full potential realised.

 

[blade too long]

My dad never forgave United for dismantling its best ever chance to be a top English side. After the sale of Tony Currie, he only went 3 more times before he died in 2013, and that's only because I kept mithering him.

To push previously fanatical supporters to the point where they just don't give a toss anymore is a sad thing. I hope I don't get like that.

to be honest I wish I had left when we sold Currie
saved 41 years of pain

 

[Silent Blade]

My father, who watched from the late 1920's, always maintained that the best United team he saw was the 1938-39 promotion team - which because of WW2 never saw its full potential realised.

The team in the changing room after beating Spurs 6-1 in 1939 to pip Wendy for 2nd promotion place

 

[Nick Jansky]

Cerberus, I am also in my 50s, and fully get the bit about the number of funerals we end up attending. This week I am going through this, a work colleague, lovely lad, the sort you would want your daughter to bring home. Awful.

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co....er-collapsing-on-pitch-at-brighouse-1-8121710

 

[Large Mendonca]

The team in the changing room after beating Spurs 6-1 in 1939 to pip Wendy for 2nd promotion place

I remember my dad telling me about the Spurs game - he said the away end was packed with Wednesday fans in with the Spurs fans, hoping for a Spurs win.

 

[Jesus_was_a_Blade]

Bit of a morbid thread this one and I apologise for raising it, but I'm a guy in my 50's now and I've been watching the Blades since I was about 12 years old
- so 1970 onwards, I'd have watched them before then but it was only when I got to that age that I had a bit of pocket money to spend. My parents weren't interested in football and never took me to a game. So it was only when I got to that age and started secondary school (where you had to be a Blade or an Owl) that I took a real interest in it.

My first game - Blades v Owls - Division 2 - 1970 ( I think). Blades won 3-2 (John Tudor came on as sub and scored the winner) but Blades outclassed them for most of that game.

I went to watch both teams for a few months that season - not knowing which to support - but it soon became obvious. The players United had then were superb. The football was attacking and exciting and a new Blade was born - albeit a bit late.

I can't tell you how good that team was - the Woody/Currie era. In my humble opinion it was our best team ever - although we won nowt of course. But fellas, if you are in your 50's, or one day hope to get there, let me give you a warning...

You will end up going to more funerals than weddings or christenings in this decade.

You'll feel 18 still but your body will tell you otherwise.

And you'll see your heroes dying off, one by one, and a piece of your life will slip by with it. But the memory will live on - thankfully.

I've really felt this over recent years with the passing of Woody, Hedgy and Hope. They epitomised that wonderful era in my life when life was good and United were good too.

And before then, way too early, my all time favourite, Trevor Hockey, passed on.

I can only see us losing more Blades legends from that era during this season. The vintage team is dying before our eyes and I doubt there will ever be another like it.

It seems to me that almost every game I go to now there is some celebration a a deceased player or supporter.

People aren't dying earlier than they used to - the opposite in fact- but my heroes from that era are on the way out.

Who next I wonder?

I don't even want to think about it but I can't help it. For sure it will be another Blades legend from the 1970's.

RIP in advance.

A sad, but good, read mate.

 

[Finn Keane o' Balmaqueen]

To push previously fanatical supporters to the point where they just don't give a toss anymore is a sad thing. I hope I don't get like that.

I've got a t-shirt that'll suit IF you ever feel that way.

 

[The Crab]

Cerberus, I am also in my 50s, and fully get the bit about the number of funerals we end up attending. This week I am going through this, a work colleague, lovely lad, the sort you would want your daughter to bring home. Awful.

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co....er-collapsing-on-pitch-at-brighouse-1-8121710

Someone who Ms Crab works with goes out with a lad who played with Dan at Scarborough and at Shaw Lane briefly. Massive shock, my condolences.

 

[Silent Blade]

I remember my dad telling me about the Spurs game - he said the away end was packed with Wednesday fans in with the Spurs fans, hoping for a Spurs win.

You are taking the piss! No segregation at football grounds at the time

 

[alpine blade]

League Champions, runners-up twice, cup winners twice, cup runners-up once. Take the mantle as our best ever. Which gets me to my own bugbear campaign, Nudger statue ASAP.

I could not agree more. There should be a statue for Nudger Needham and Tony Currie. I know Derek Dooley was an instrumental figure in the club, but he never played for us. Needham's credentials are indisputable.

 

[Nick Jansky]

Someone who Ms Crab works with goes out with a lad who played with Dan at Scarborough and at Shaw Lane briefly. Massive shock, my condolences.

Thanks Mr Crab. It's been a tough week, particularly for his age group in the office, many of whom heard the news through the media. For the rest of us, it makes you hug your kids that bit tighter.

 

[The Crab]

Thanks Mr Crab. It's been a tough week, particularly for his age group in the office, many of whom heard the news through the media. For the rest of us, it makes you hug your kids that bit tighter.

I can imagine it has been a tough week. Bad enough when you see it coming, but sudden like that, just horrible. One feels for the lads parents especially, to bury your child, it's not meant to be that way. As I say, I am very sorry.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

And had the score for the home game against Derby (a very good match with either team having chances to win but Derby got the late winner) been reversed then a win in the last game against Birmingham would have made us champions

I seem to recall a couple of home games that we drew 1-1 that we should've won as well. Luton I'm pretty sure was one and I think QPR was another, but QPR were a decent side at the time.

 

[sitwell]

I have a ridiculously high threshold of 'offendedness'. Which is why I always get into trouble myself

Wanker.

 

[Silent Blade]

I seem to recall a couple of home games that we drew 1-1 that we should've won as well. Luton I'm pretty sure was one and I think QPR was another, but QPR were a decent side at the time.

Yes, both were 1-1. The QPR game was the first of the season. A hot day. Steve Cammack opened the scoring and Gerry Francis equalised in the 2nd half. Luton game was in February

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Bit harsh. Terrible in the cup competitions granted, but in the 1974-5 season they were a couple of decent results away from being League Champions. In fact the home game against eventual champions Derby was one that stands out, we lost 2-1 but it could and probably should have been a home win which would have left us on 51 points at end of the season, level with Derby. Fine margins and all that!

If you're talking about the five year period from 1970 to 1975 that invites comparisons with the Bassett team from 1989 to 1993.

1970-1975 Record:-
Div 2 2nd (Promoted)
Div 1 10th
Div 1 14th
Div 1 13th
Div 1 6th
FA Cup - None
Lge Cup - 1 QF

1989-1993 Record
Div 3 2nd (Promoted)
Div 2 2nd (Promoted)
Div 1 13th
Div 1 9th
Div 1 14th
Fa Cup - 1 SF, 1 QF, 2 5R
Lge Cup - None

Over a sustained five year period, Bassett's team is the most successful (i.e. best) we have had in the last 50 years.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

If you're talking about the five year period from 1970 to 1975 that invites comparisons with the Bassett team from 1989 to 1993.

1970-1975 Record:-
Div 2 2nd (Promoted)
Div 1 10th
Div 1 14th
Div 1 13th
Div 1 6th
FA Cup - None
Lge Cup - 1 QF

1989-1993 Record
Div 3 2nd (Promoted)
Div 2 2nd (Promoted)
Div 1 13th
Div 1 9th
Div 1 14th
Fa Cup - 1 SF, 1 QF, 2 5R
Lge Cup - None

Over a sustained five year period, Bassett's team is the most successful (i.e. best) we have had in the last 50 years.

Not quite sure how you come to that conclusion when the 70s side spent a season more in the top division and achieved a higher finish. And as I've said elsewhere, that 6th place could have, with more fortuitous results been a 1st or 2nd finish, that 9th place wasn't ever looking like a higher finish than that.

 

[BushBlade]

Not quite sure how you come to that conclusion when the 70s side spent a season more in the top division and achieved a higher finish. And as I've said elsewhere, that 6th place could have, with more fortuitous results been a 1st or 2nd finish, that 9th place wasn't ever looking like a higher finish than that.

With one more fortuitous result we could have been in an FA Cup final under Bassett.
Either way, the FA Cup semi and the 6th place finish were both followed by relegation.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Not quite sure how you come to that conclusion when the 70s side spent a season more in the top division and achieved a higher finish. And as I've said elsewhere, that 6th place could have, with more fortuitous results been a 1st or 2nd finish, that 9th place wasn't ever looking like a higher finish than that.

With one more fortuitous result we could have been in an FA Cup final under Bassett

If we had beaten Aston Villa on 31/03/1992 instead of drawing 1-1, we would have finished above them and Forest in 7th.
I don't think you can go down that track anyway when making historical comparisons. Too many ifs, buts and maybes.

Overall, I think that the massively superior Cup record tips the balance in the later teams favour.
They started from a much lower position, climbed almost as high and won many more matches overall.
I realise it's not going to be a popular opinion on here though.

 

[JJ Sefton]

Good info Rev.

So the 1961-1962 team not only attained our highest post-war league position (5th) but in the same season they reached the Quarter Finals of both Cups.

Therefore, they are undoubtedly our best, highest-achieving post-war team.

The first match of the new season was Wolves at Bramall Lane. Wolves had just enjoyed a spell of dominance, winning the League in 1957-8 and 1958-9, and the FA Cup in 1959-60 when they were also runners-up in the League. We beat them 2-1. Doc Pace and Billy Hodgson scored for us and I felt we were going to have a good season.

After that we had two away games, getting a hard-won point in a 1-1 draw at Cardiff but losing 2-0 at Notts Forest. Our next home game was against Cardiff. It was held on a Monday evening, but it was a hot, bright sunny day. Sometime before the game someone near me in the crowd started to peel an orange and you could taste it for yards around. Everybody was licking their lips at the thought of it. The game itself was a hard one. United were on top but Cardiff were always dangerous. United were kept out by Cardiff’s goalkeeper, Graham Vearncombe, who had played for Wales. Eventually, Len Allchurch got the ball wide on the left and looped a marvellous shot over the keeper’s head into the far corner. We won 1-0.

The next game was at home to Aston Villa. We were never really in the game and lost 0-2. I remember Derek Dougan playing for Villa. He was rough and tough and caused problems in the 6-yard box. I had the feeling they could score any time they wanted.

Things were better in the next game. We had a home game against Tottenham and drew 1-1. I was proud that we had held our own against the team that had done the League and Cup double the previous season. They were good, but we matched them.

The following game was a heavy defeat, 1-6 against Chelsea away, followed by a 1-1 draw in the League Cup against Fulham.

On 16th Sept we were at home to Wednesday. My previous experience of a derby game was seeing us lose 0-2 in the Cup in 1960, when Wednesday were very lucky to win. I was worried that they might get lucky again. No worries ! We had the best of it but couldn’t score. Right in the last minute Doc Pace got the winning goal for us.

The next match was a big let-down. We lost at home 1-4 to West Ham, and I have never seen United so outplayed at home. We were wiped out and I took it very bad. I was 11 years old and my language was so bad I was warned about it.

The next home game we beat Fulham 4-0 in a League Cup replay, and we then had a 2-1 win at Blackburn in the League.

The next game I saw was the match against Newcastle in the next round of the League Cup. We drew 2-2. One thing I remember about this game was that we had Len Allchurch in our team and his brother Ivor was in the Newcastle team. When the ball went out they would take some time to have a chat. We won the replay 2-0.

In the League we lost 1-4 at Leicester, then beat Ipswich 2-1 at home. Next up was a midweek friendly match against Eintracht Frankfurt. They had been the losing finalists in the previous year’s European Cup Final against Real Madrid. That was said to be one of the best matches ever. I was convinced there would be a massive crowd, so I went along early and got there before the ground was even open. I was wrong about the crowd. Only 19,000 turned up, but United played really well and won 3-1.

In the League we lost 0-1 at Everton and then drew at home to Fulham 2-2. I remember seeing Johnny Haynes in that game. He was a great player, and I judge him the best London footballer I have ever seen. Then we lost 0-2 at Bolton and followed with a 3-1 home win against Manchester City. One of their players obliged by scoring an own goal.

We then beat Portsmouth 1-0 in the League Cup but lost 1-3 at West Brom. I didn’t see that game, but all the reports said that Hodgkinson had a great game. We then beat Birmingham at home 3-1, but lost the following game 2-4 at Burnley.

At this point United were in the relegation area, which seemed odd because we had played some good football. The match against Burnley was a turning point. After that we went on an unbeaten run that took us up the table.

The first step was a 2-1 home win against Arsenal. I remember that there was a bit of snow and ice lying about. Some Arsenal guy was walking round the pitch before the game holding up a board. He was wearing a red tail coat and a top hat. I picked up some ice to throw at him but when he got closer I could read that the board said “Arsenal welcomes Sheffield United back into the First Division”, so I dropped the ice because I thought he was ok after all. We followed this with a 1-0 win over Wolves away in the next match.

We had two home games over Christmas. We beat Notts Forest 2-0, then beat Blackpool 2-1. The Notts Forest game saw the new floodlights in use for the first time. Shortly after this, in the hurricane that hit Sheffield in February, one of the pylons was blown down.

In the new year we played Bury in the 3rd Round of the Cup. It took us three games to get past them. In the first replay at Bramall Lane I remember seeing Doc Pace go up for a cross in the middle of a bunch of players. A fist came out, I didn’t see whose, and laid out poor old Doc. The ref didn’t see it.

In the League we drew 0-0 at Aston Villa followed by a very good 3-1 win over Chelsea at the Lane. We got through the next round of the Cup with a 3-1 win at Peterborough.

Our next game was at Hillsborough, where I stood on Wednesday’s famous uncovered Kop. What I remember best from this match was Doc Pace’s second goal in our 2-1 win. The Wednesday were pushing forward but lost the ball. A United player hit it forward and Doc chased it and got it. He was onside with nobody to stop him but Ron Springett. Doc kept his head, Springett came way out to close him down, and Doc lifted the ball over his head. It was a beautifully judged lob and it was obviously a goal from the moment it left his boot. To rub it in, it took a long time to get into the goal, almost in slow motion. There was nothing Wednesday could do about it. Springett was stranded and there was nobody else anywhere near it.

We drew 0-0 at Blackpool in the League Cup, and a got a 2-1 win at West Ham in the League. Then we won a home game against Norwich, 3-1, in the Fifth Round of the Cup. Then we had a 0-0 draw at home to Blackburn, got a very good 3-1 win against Leicester at the Lane, then lost 0-4 at Ipswich, ending our unbeaten run.

The next match was at home to Burnley in the Sixth Round of the FA Cup. Almost straight from the kick off we lost Gerry Summers to a bad injury. He stayed on the pitch afterwards, but could hardly move. He was only an onlooker. This was before substitutes. Sometimes you can only appreciate a good player when you see what things are like when he’s not there. This was a big loss to us, and showed how much Gerry meant to us. We eventually lost 1-0 to a fluke goal. A Burnley player hit the ball very hard, but it was going wide of our goal by a mile. It hit the Burnley centre-forward, Ray Pointer, on the head and deflected in to our goal. He didn’t know what had hit him, but it put us out of the Cup for that year.

Another aspect of this game was the crowd, which was so large it has only been estimated at a massive 57,000. I was on the Bramall Lane end in the old “Jubilee Suits Me” shed. We could see people climbing on to the roof of the Kop and some of the fencing at the front of the Kop collapsed, with many people injured. I remember seeing the St John’s staff rushing to the incident. Two blokes went to hospital. One of them got a visit from United players and a signed team shirt. The other guy only got a ten bob postal order from some Liverpool supporters.

Soon after this we were also knocked out of the League Cup when we lost the Fifth Round Replay to Blackpool 0-2 at the Lane. I couldn’t believe how poor we were that night. The team just didn’t look interested, and Blackpool had some very good goalkeepers at that time, West and Waiters, who were in rivalry to see who got the first team place. I think West eventually went to Everton.

Meanwhile the League campaign went on. We had a home draw 1-1 against Everton, lost 2-5 away to Fulham, then beat Bolton 3-1 at the Lane. At this time we were capable of beating anybody on a good day. The Bolton team that day had two players I particularly remember. One was their goalkeeper Eddie Hopkinson. When Alan Hodgkinson was England’s keeper in the mid-1950’s, Hopkinson was the bloke who was picked to replace him. I didn’t believe there was a better keeper anywhere than Hodgy, but I must admit that Hopkinson was bloody good that day. The other player was a winger called Brian Pilkington, who had played for England while he was with Burnley. He was their biggest threat, and caused lots of trouble for us on the right wing. So, you see, we were beating good teams, not rubbish.

The following games were a bit routine – drew 1-1 at Manchester City; won 4-2 at Blackpool; drew 1-1 at home to West Brom; drew 3-3 at Tottenham (must have been a good game, but I didn’t see it), and lost 0-3 at Birmingham.

The next game was one to remember. We beat Burnley 2-0 at the Lane, which was some consolation for the Cup knock-out. It wasn’t just the win but the manner of it. The pitch was a mud bath. United’s Scottish inside-forward, Billy Hodgson, was a real warrior. He got stuck into Burnley and turned them inside-out. He got one goal and Ron Simpson got the other through a penalty. At the end of the game Billy was entirely covered in mud. He looked like a slime monster, but we loved him. Another aspect of the game I remember was how our left back Graham Shaw totally wrapped up Burnley’s international winger John Connelly. Connelly was rated quite high, but Graham made him look a fool. By the end of the match, Graham was pushing forward and Connelly was having to drop back to stop him, reversing the roles. Connelly couldn’t even do that, and eventually resorted to a rugby tackle to stop Graham!

This was Easter and on the Monday I travelled to Old Trafford to see us play at Manchester United. We had just moved house to Woodseats, and I travelled to the match with some lads from the area I had just moved in to. We travelled by train from the old Victoria Station. We got to the game very early and took up position on the Stretford End, which didn’t have the reputation it got later. The only record they played before the match started was “Theme from Dr Kildare” over and over again. Doc Pace scored for us and we won 1-0. In the return game the following day we lost 2-3, throwing away a game we had in the bag at one point.

The final League match of the season was a 0-2 defeat at Arsenal, but we finished fifth that season, and we were well pleased with that. The icing on the cake was another win over Wednesday, this time 3-2 in the Final of the County Cup.

- Walth Snr

 

[BushBlade]

If we had beaten Aston Villa on 31/03/1992 instead of drawing 1-1, we would have finished above them and Forest in 7th.
I don't think you can go down that track anyway when making historical comparisons. Too many ifs, buts and maybes.

Overall, I think that the massively superior Cup record tips the balance in the later teams favour.
They started from a much lower position, climbed almost as high and won many more matches overall.
I realise it's not going to be a popular opinion on here though.

I'll tell you what will be even more unpopular; if the 70s side had worked as hard as Bassett's side they might have won something.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

I'll tell you what will be even more unpopular; if the 70s side had worked as hard as Bassett's side they might have won something.

Can't disagree with that one. Then again, if the Bassett side had the skill levels of the 70s side they might have won something.

 

[BushBlade]

Can't disagree with that one. Then again, if the Bassett side had the skill levels of the 70s side they might have won something.

Imagine the Bassett side with TC and Woody in their prime in it....