Money in vs Money out

[Barney]

Quite a lot of people myself included were only happy with letting go of Adams and DCL for the kind of fees banded around on the condition that the money be reinvested in the team.

Let's have a look at what we have spent in relation to what we have brought in:



Spendings

O'Connell - 250k
Lavery - 150k
Hussey - 20k
Clarke - 100k
Moore - 350k

£870k

I'd say that was roughly about right.



Brought in:

Adams - £1.75m (most widely reported figure) - 20% sell on clause to Ilkeston = £1.4m
DCL - £1.4m (most widely reported figure)

£2.8m

+ The savings made from the Brayford loan.

So, where's the £1.93m we have left going to go?

On current player wages until it runs out so that McCabe and the Prince don't have to put as much in?


If we'd have reinvested the Adams money already (plenty of time to have done so), and sold Calvert-Lewin earlier, that could well have gone on fees for a couple of top notch instrumental players to get us out of the league. Although since we chose not to reinvest the Adams money, there's nothing to suggest we would have done so with the DCL money either, given the time.


There's January, where it maybe will or will not be spent (answers on a postcard) but for a large chunk of the season at the very least, the results of which will probably decide promotion, it's looking like yet another case of player sales and inadequate reinvestment.

 

[Slim Man]

Nobody is surprised.

 

[Rusty view]

It's been put in a 9mth high interest bond to spend on new players when we get promoted. (if only). Possibly going towards running costs of club and limit losses this financial year.

 

[DazBlade88]

We've brought more in than we've spent, but you've forgotten to include the expenditure of paying off Nigel Adkins, his backroom staff, Dean Hammond and Martyn Woolford. Which I suspect will be more than £1m.

 

[The Crab]

Quite a lot of people myself included were only happy with letting go of Adams and DCL for the kind of fees banded around on the condition that the money be reinvested in the team.

Let's have a look at what we have spent in relation to what we have brought in:



Spendings

O'Connell - 250k
Lavery - 150k
Hussey - 20k
Clarke - 100k
Moore - 350k

£870k

I'd say that was roughly about right.



Brought in:

Adams - £1.75m (most widely reported figure) - 20% sell on clause to Ilkeston = £1.4m
DCL - £1.4m (most widely reported figure)

£3.15m

+ The savings made from the Brayford loan.

So, where's the £2.28m we have left going to go?

On current player wages until it runs out so that McCabe and the Prince don't have to put as much in?


If we'd have reinvested the Adams money already (plenty of time to have done so), and sold Calvert-Lewin earlier, that could well have gone on fees for a couple of top notch instrumental players to get us out of the league. Although since we chose not to reinvest the Adams money, there's nothing to suggest we would have done so with the DCL money either, given the time.


There's January, where it maybe will or will not be spent (answers on a postcard) but for a large chunk of the season at the very least, the results of which will probably decide promotion, it's looking like yet another case of player sales and inadequate reinvestment.

The bit in bold would be my guess.

 

[Esablade]

'Running costs/McCabe's mistake's'

...so that McCabe/Princey don't need to put in as much in as the £8 million they were 'mumbled' to have put in last year...'the club must stand on it's own two feet'... remember?

Though obviously, the wage bill should be much lower than McCabe's £6 million figure from last year...so they wouldn't need to chuck as much in anyhow...you would think...

 

[west_yorks_blade]

There is presumably also a net gain in terms of wages?

 

[Ricky]

We're stronger for selling Adams but we've not done as much with his fee as we should've done.

Selling DCL is a separate piece of idiocy and it was always going to be too late to re-invest that fee. Selling him on DD was the worst case scenario... for the fans at least.

 

[joshua thompson]

Quite a lot of people myself included were only happy with letting go of Adams and DCL for the kind of fees banded around on the condition that the money be reinvested in the team.

Let's have a look at what we have spent in relation to what we have brought in:



Spendings

O'Connell - 250k
Lavery - 150k
Hussey - 20k
Clarke - 100k
Moore - 350k

£870k

I'd say that was roughly about right.



Brought in:

Adams - £1.75m (most widely reported figure) - 20% sell on clause to Ilkeston = £1.4m
DCL - £1.4m (most widely reported figure)

£2.8m

+ The savings made from the Brayford loan.

So, where's the £1.93m we have left going to go?

On current player wages until it runs out so that McCabe and the Prince don't have to put as much in?


If we'd have reinvested the Adams money already (plenty of time to have done so), and sold Calvert-Lewin earlier, that could well have gone on fees for a couple of top notch instrumental players to get us out of the league. Although since we chose not to reinvest the Adams money, there's nothing to suggest we would have done so with the DCL money either, given the time.


There's January, where it maybe will or will not be spent (answers on a postcard) but for a large chunk of the season at the very least, the results of which will probably decide promotion, it's looking like yet another case of player sales and inadequate reinvestment.

Your forgetting sign on fees, agent fees, bonuses... So much more to add than just that 870k, we probably spent around 1.5mil+ on these transfers alone including the free agents even though it does not add up in fees to teams.

I do think this window we have done okay, personally thought brayford would have been better sold rather than loaned out, could have got more for che, and the DCL cash-in was ideal, he hasnt played and wont with our strike force so cash in while we can.

With regards to in-comings, im glad we have utilised free agents for once, always a good way to get key players on a cheaper price, now just for the loanees if needed.

Hope the team starts to gel well, there was signs the the second half against Oxford so hopefully that continues on Sunday and we can get a run going, with regards to a starting team, I think we should push out Hussey and Duffy... they have been shocking so far. And maybe try a new system for the game on sunday with the new incoming players.

 

[Hodgyman]

With all the great supporters we have on here, perhaps a donation of £10,000 each would help. Or would you rather just McCabe and Prince do it on your behalf so that we can slag them off if things don't turn out as you would have hoped?

With their monetary donations already, they are bigger blades than all of us.

"lights blue touch paper and walks away briskly"

 

[itsinyerblood]

Quite a lot of people myself included were only happy with letting go of Adams and DCL for the kind of fees banded around on the condition that the money be reinvested in the team.

Let's have a look at what we have spent in relation to what we have brought in:



Spendings

O'Connell - 250k
Lavery - 150k
Hussey - 20k
Clarke - 100k
Moore - 350k

£870k

I'd say that was roughly about right.



Brought in:

Adams - £1.75m (most widely reported figure) - 20% sell on clause to Ilkeston = £1.4m
DCL - £1.4m (most widely reported figure)

£3.15m

+ The savings made from the Brayford loan.

So, where's the £2.28m we have left going to go?

On current player wages until it runs out so that McCabe and the Prince don't have to put as much in?


If we'd have reinvested the Adams money already (plenty of time to have done so), and sold Calvert-Lewin earlier, that could well have gone on fees for a couple of top notch instrumental players to get us out of the league. Although since we chose not to reinvest the Adams money, there's nothing to suggest we would have done so with the DCL money either, given the time.


There's January, where it maybe will or will not be spent (answers on a postcard) but for a large chunk of the season at the very least, the results of which will probably decide promotion, it's looking like yet another case of player sales and inadequate reinvestment.

I take exception at the suggestion we'd even consider the signing of instrumentalists only. I demand a decent vocalist if we're in the market for quality players, after all, I think it's time we purchased someone with the tonsils to bark at those around them.

 

[Barney]

We've brought more in than we've spent, but you've forgotten to include the expenditure of paying off Nigel Adkins, his backroom staff, Dean Hammond and Martyn Woolford. Which I suspect will be more than £1m.

I've tried explaining before why these shouldn't really be factored in. They are decisions the board took off their own back. If they didn't want to sack Adkins or pay players off, they didn't have to.

There's also the huge savings in wages overall that I haven't factored in.

 

[Esablade]

Your forgetting sign on fees, agent fees, bonuses... So much more to add than just that 870k, we probably spent around 1.5mil+ on these transfers alone including the free agents even though it does not add up in fees to teams.

I do think this window we have done okay, personally thought brayford would have been better sold rather than loaned out, could have got more for che, and the DCL cash-in was ideal, he hasnt played and wont with our strike force so cash in while we can.

With regards to in-comings, im glad we have utilised free agents for once, always a good way to get key players on a cheaper price, now just for the loanees if needed.

Hope the team starts to gel well, there was signs the the second half against Oxford so hopefully that continues on Sunday and we can get a run going, with regards to a starting team, I think we should push out Hussey and Duffy... they have been shocking so far. And maybe try a new system for the game on sunday with the new incoming players.

I believe the costs of signing on fee's, agent's fee's, player registrations, bonuses and the like are capitalised as intangible assets and amortised over the period of the players contracts...so won't be upfront payments in Barney 's figures...

Dunno whether this also includes paying off managers or whether that's in 'wages and salaries', I'd guess wages and salaries...but the figure in the Blades Leisure Accounts for intangible fixed assets was £790,914 in 2015 and £314,000 in 2014...to give some perspective...

 

[BladeInIreland]

Every year we sell players and hope its reinvested. We never reinvest enough. The adams and dcl deals were great business , if we then went on to sign two or three quality signings extra we'd now be confident of promotion not pointing out blatant gaps of quality.

 

[metalblade]

Why are the running cost so much higher at the Lane than anywhere else? before anyone jumps in saying the lane is larger than other league one stadiums so are our crowds it is all relative. Why do we need to bring in £2m every year in player sales if McCabe isnt trousering a good chunk of that every year?

 

[DazBlade88]

I've tried explaining before why these shouldn't really be factored in. They are decisions the board took off their own back. If they didn't want to sack Adkins or pay players off, they didn't have to.

There's also the huge savings in wages overall that I haven't factored in.

The argument about Adkins is fair. However, I would say that paying players off is more at the request of the manager than the board. He has to request that, so that would be seen as using his allocated budget to get the squad in the shape that he saw fit. Whether that be reducing the wage budget or taking it from the transfer kitty.

 

[drinksmat]

I've tried explaining before why these shouldn't really be factored in. They are decisions the board took off their own back. If they didn't want to sack Adkins or pay players off, they didn't have to.

There's also the huge savings in wages overall that I haven't factored in.

So this game in this thread is called Creative Accounting. Regardless of whether they could/should/did/might have the old team has gone and a there is a cost associated with it. That cost needs to be paid regardless of the why.

 

[Barney]

The argument about Adkins is fair. However, I would say that paying players off is more at the request of the manager than the board. He has to request that, so that would be seen as using his allocated budget to get the squad in the shape that he saw fit. Whether that be reducing the wage budget or taking it from the transfer kitty.

Fair enough, good points. So if we say that paying players off is included, that is only countered with the savings of wages overall from last season.

 

[Barney]

So this game in this thread is called Creative Accounting. Regardless of whether they could/should/did/might have the old team has gone and a there is a cost associated with it. That cost needs to be paid regardless of the why.

Of course they need to be paid. It's just that the Adkins pay off in particular can't really be included in this context for reasons discussed above.

 

[Esablade]

...yeah, but just how many stamps do we need to be using to be running administrative expenses at £4,579,505 in 2015...down from £5,156,094 the previous year?

 

[Westran]

Thing that amused me about this post is that it started with "Quite a lot of people myself included were only happy with...". Now I'm not being funny but your happiness is not exactly the top of the clubs agenda. Trying to build a sustainable football club yes, ensuring we don't sign too many players for the sake of it yes, but who gives a fuck if your happy.

I'm sorry but a sector of our support is terrible, moaning about not being pleased like petulant children, booing at the first opportunity. I consider this transfer windows one of the most succesful in years and I think we need to give the squad a chance to settle and find its feet before we lose our shit. we have signed 12 new players afterall.

 

[Chali 2na]

Rightly or wrongly I think the money will be spent ensuring that we only lose £4m as opposed to £6m. (Asuming it is about £6m we lose, a blade who knows his shit may correct me.)

 

[Razor1967]

Quite a lot of people myself included were only happy with letting go of Adams and DCL for the kind of fees banded around on the condition that the money be reinvested in the team.

Let's have a look at what we have spent in relation to what we have brought in:



Spendings

O'Connell - 250k
Lavery - 150k
Hussey - 20k
Clarke - 100k
Moore - 350k

£870k

I'd say that was roughly about right.



Brought in:

Adams - £1.75m (most widely reported figure) - 20% sell on clause to Ilkeston = £1.4m
DCL - £1.4m (most widely reported figure)

£2.8m

+ The savings made from the Brayford loan.

So, where's the £1.93m we have left going to go?

On current player wages until it runs out so that McCabe and the Prince don't have to put as much in?


If we'd have reinvested the Adams money already (plenty of time to have done so), and sold Calvert-Lewin earlier, that could well have gone on fees for a couple of top notch instrumental players to get us out of the league. Although since we chose not to reinvest the Adams money, there's nothing to suggest we would have done so with the DCL money either, given the time.


There's January, where it maybe will or will not be spent (answers on a postcard) but for a large chunk of the season at the very least, the results of which will probably decide promotion, it's looking like yet another case of player sales and inadequate reinvestment.

I don't care what we spend, sell, reinvest put into Mr McCabes pocket! All I care about is what we produce on the pitch. These are Mr Wilders signings, give him and the club some respect and support. Judge him around Christmas. If he has produced and we have saved some money which means we sell no one and can add in January it's job done!

 

[Ecco1889]

Quite a lot of people myself included were only happy with letting go of Adams and DCL for the kind of fees banded around on the condition that the money be reinvested in the team.

Let's have a look at what we have spent in relation to what we have brought in:



Spendings

O'Connell - 250k
Lavery - 150k
Hussey - 20k
Clarke - 100k
Moore - 350k

£870k

I'd say that was roughly about right.



Brought in:

Adams - £1.75m (most widely reported figure) - 20% sell on clause to Ilkeston = £1.4m
DCL - £1.4m (most widely reported figure)

£2.8m

+ The savings made from the Brayford loan.

So, where's the £1.93m we have left going to go?

On current player wages until it runs out so that McCabe and the Prince don't have to put as much in?


If we'd have reinvested the Adams money already (plenty of time to have done so), and sold Calvert-Lewin earlier, that could well have gone on fees for a couple of top notch instrumental players to get us out of the league. Although since we chose not to reinvest the Adams money, there's nothing to suggest we would have done so with the DCL money either, given the time.


There's January, where it maybe will or will not be spent (answers on a postcard) but for a large chunk of the season at the very least, the results of which will probably decide promotion, it's looking like yet another case of player sales and inadequate reinvestment.

Common sense says to me this is a reasonable argument,Kevin McCabe,accountants and club-apologists will obviously disagree..would love to know what the current wage bill is,when it was approx 9m,Jim Phipps intimated that it needed to be half that to break even,surely we are at that level now...

 

[ThroughThinAndThinner]

Can anyone point me to a league one club who spends what they generate in player sales?

 

[SwissBlade]

Selling Che and DCL make financial sense for the present season. I never like to see us sell young prospects, but can't really argue with them.

Che was a decent prospect but it was also a little difficult to see how he would fit in. Selling him with Lavery in the background was a sensible option.

DCL was clearly well thought of in the game and the fact that Everton came in with a 400k bid in the summer, followed up with this 1 Million deal clearly shows that they are trying to exploit lower league clubs, taking talent before they have reached their potential. For us its a no lose situation as we can replace DCL with someone we need this season.

Something that you are forgetting Barney is that we have paid off Clough, Woolford, Hammond and Adkins to name a few. So yes the money will probably have been used for this, as well as paying wages To date.

My assumption is that up to August, we have been running over budget. Wilder has now wiped the slate clean and i'd suggest that he has now got the budget pretty much where he wants it. Whether that includes the Owners subsidising the budget, perhaps. but I'd assume that the money that they have to put into the club for the remainder of this season is a lot less than last year. From a business perspective that has to be a good thing.

Going forward, we're in a healthier position financially and I think all parties within the club will be fairly satisfied with the squad size, wage bill, types of players and experience blend of the squad.

It certainly looks like the manager has worked with the owners to get this squad to where it is. We just need the results and performances on the pitch now.

 

[larkymasher]

Round and round we go yet again chewing the fat of whats been spent and how much we have got in.

11 new signings have come in. Hammond, Woolford, Adkins, Turnbull, Coaching Staff all had to be paid off. You and me have no idea what costs this involved. its all hearsay.
On the cost of players coming in, again, we have no idea on fees paid. We have no idea on what we actually got in for Adams and DCL. Its all hearsay.

What makes us any different to other clubs that we buy and sell to square up the books. If you honestly believe anyone can make profit out of a L1 club of 6 years standing your are misguided.

 

[Barney]

Something that you are forgetting Barney is that we have paid off Clough, Woolford, Hammond and Adkins to name a few. So yes the money will probably have been used for this, as well as paying wages To date.
.

See posts #12 and #18.

 

[SwissBlade]

See posts #12 and #18.

I was responding to the first post so hadn't seen these comments, however, my response remains valid, you asked where the remainder of the money will go, I think its pretty much gone up to the end of August.

Of course, the reality is that the Che and DCL money will be probably received over the next 2-3 years, but i am guessing that it will be shown in the August accounts.

 

[Barney]

I was responding to the first post so hadn't seen these comments, however, my response remains valid, you asked where the remainder of the money will go, I think its pretty much gone up to the end of August.

Well, not really as you said about the Adkins pay off, which as it was a decision the board didn't need to take, it's unsuitable to include in this context. You think it's gone until August, that was the point I was making...although not sure on the "until" bit, I think it's gone full stop.