The Clough O'Meter 24/1/15

[GRUMPY BLADE]

So the part where I listed his (fairly) successful signings, you missed or you totally ignored?

Grant - Burnley
Forsyth - Watford
Buxton - Burton Albion
Keogh - Coventry
Bryson - Kilmarnock
Coutts - Preston North End
Brayford - Crewe Alexandra
Eustace - Watford
Russel - Dundee Utd
Ward - Sheffield United
Martin - Norwich

You're even having a pop at his signings since he got here,

the lads from Blackpool, Harris, Basham and McGahey (any of them poor signings?) any of them cost a lot of cash?

What about he ex Derby lads? Brayford? Coutts? Ben Davies? Freeman? Any of them poor signings?

Then the others. geographically?

McEverley - free and from Swindon?
Scougall - couple of hundred k from Scotland?
Alcock - free from Peterborough?
McNulty - 150k?
JCR - free?
Wallace x 2 - James from Tranmere and the Ilkeston lad
Higdon from Holland?

I've got a feeling you read somewhere that the scouting is done in Derby and Scotland and you've stuck to that.

Forgetting that actually they've signed players from South to North, from East to West.

The ex Derby lads he's brought them in cos he knows who they are and what they do.

So far I'd say he's got more right than wrong in the transfer market. Both here and at Derby where their new scouts HAVE STILL NOT FOUND A PLAYER GOOD ENOUGH TO DISLODGE HIS SIGNINGS 17 MONTHS AFTER THEY LEFT. Not bad at all.

Two posts and two crackers, pressure is on for the hat trick.

 

[Woodwardfan]

So the part where I listed his (fairly) successful signings, you missed or you totally ignored?

Grant - Burnley
Forsyth - Watford
Buxton - Burton Albion
Keogh - Coventry
Bryson - Kilmarnock
Coutts - Preston North End
Brayford - Crewe Alexandra
Eustace - Watford
Russel - Dundee Utd
Ward - Sheffield United
Martin - Norwich

You're even having a pop at his signings since he got here,

the lads from Blackpool, Harris, Basham and McGahey (any of them poor signings?) any of them cost a lot of cash?

What about he ex Derby lads? Brayford? Coutts? Ben Davies? Freeman? Any of them poor signings?

Then the others. geographically?

McEverley - free and from Swindon?
Scougall - couple of hundred k from Scotland?
Alcock - free from Peterborough?
McNulty - 150k?
JCR - free?
Wallace x 2 - James from Tranmere and the Ilkeston lad
Higdon from Holland?

I've got a feeling you read somewhere that the scouting is done in Derby and Scotland and you've stuck to that.

Forgetting that actually they've signed players from South to North, from East to West.

The ex Derby lads he's brought them in cos he knows who they are and what they do.

So far I'd say he's got more right than wrong in the transfer market. Both here and at Derby where their new scouts HAVE STILL NOT FOUND A PLAYER GOOD ENOUGH TO DISLODGE HIS SIGNINGS 17 MONTHS AFTER THEY LEFT. Not bad at all.

No Bridgford I didn't ignore it because I hadn't read it. I have now and appreciate the detail.

The percentage of those I grouped is 66% not 90% as I guessed. Fair does, my guess was an exaggeration.

I am still disappointed about our recruitment since last summer which is how all this started as a simple comment to explain why I had scored Clough "4" in the OP poll. We are still short of two strikers.

Before the signings this week I did an exercise where I rated each signing and the average was 5.5 out of 10. Deduct more for the lack of strikers and it's not good enough and has contributed to our league position.

 

[Woodwardfan]

No, you misunderstand. Quote away, but the inference is what matters. If you have a lack of faith, or reliable understanding, of what it takes to make SUFC run like an operation that strives to move forward that's not an issue. Most of us haven't a clue about the behind-the-scenes stuff that makes up the daily happenings at United. It's just that sometimes posters seem to confuse conviction with their point of view. Surely that's fair to comment on? [/QUOTE

No, you misunderstand. Quote away, but the inference is what matters. If you have a lack of faith, or reliable understanding, of what it takes to make SUFC run like an operation that strives to move forward that's not an issue. Most of us haven't a clue about the behind-the-scenes stuff that makes up the daily happenings at United. It's just that sometimes posters seem to confuse conviction with their point of view. Surely that's fair to comment on?

This thread is all about opinion. It's a poll and the results are fairly mixed considering we have probably just spent over a million pounds on a player. The topics I touched on are still matters of concern in the medium term for me and apparently for a good few others looking at the results of the poll.

Comment inside the panel sorry.

 

[itsinyerblood]

Whether your view is a minority one, or held by many, isn't the question. Lots of people watch crap television, but never think this gives the programmes in question a 5-star rating, let alone offers something that proves to be correct in the short to longterm.

 

[Woodwardfan]

It's not the first time I've seen that kind of quote about his brother.

Just for the record Woodward, would that be the same brother that scouted then signed Bryson (300k), Martin (FREE), Russell (650k), Forsyth (150k), Grant (FREE), Buxton (FREE), Ward (300k), Keogh (1m), Brayford (400k), Coutts (150k), Eustace (FREE).

That's 11 players for less than 3m quid. Chris Martin on his own is worth that now. 9 of them still first team regulars for a promotion chasing Derby, the other two back here at the Lane.

I don't think his brother is too shabby at all when it comes to signings, geographically restricted or not.

I think you have made an outstanding contribution to this thread and you have showed me that impressions I have picked up from Derby fans are only partly justified. Rampage is the Derby fan who has posted on here most and he did say that the Cloughs had done well overall "on balance", though they appeared "amateurish" and lost a number of deals on disagreements on value.

I still believe their signings at our club are distinctly modest man for man and the failure to sign a quality strikeforce is criminal really. The Brayford signing is a major boost but personally I would have liked to have seen two more strikers in place first. Having said that Rome was not built in a day and there is time. I pray we don't go to a Wembley Play-Off Final without a recognised striker again though.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

This whole thread is about opinion surely. I just happen to have quoted loads of facts.

It is about opinions - and I don't think many, in this case agree with you.

As for Clough at Derby - sure the powers that be got rid of him - but it is pure speculation and guess work that Clough may not have taken Derby to where they are now. For all anyone knows, Cloughs Derby might now be 10 points clear at the top of the Championship. As for Derby fans on a form - well who'd honestly listen to any bigoted fans on a forum

As for Cloughs brother - can't really see why you want to keep having a pop at him - The management team sounds like it's based on the musketeers - all for one and one for all, in a similar way Clough backed up Morgs against that Dutch nob at Southampton. Quite noticeable that the very next TV interview was done by Morgs - yet another small way of Clough backing his management team.

UTB

 

[Woodwardfan]

It is about opinions - and I don't think many, in this case agree with you.

As for Clough at Derby - sure the powers that be got rid of him - but it is pure speculation and guess work that Clough may not have taken Derby to where they are now. For all anyone knows, Cloughs Derby might now be 10 points clear at the top of the Championship. As for Derby fans on a form - well who'd honestly listen to any bigoted fans on a forum

As for Cloughs brother - can't really see why you want to keep having a pop at him - The management team sounds like it's based on the musketeers - all for one and one for all, in a similar way Clough backed up Morgs against that Dutch nob at Southampton. Quite noticeable that the very next TV interview was done by Morgs - yet another small way of Clough backing his management team.

UTB

Whether many agree with me or not is not my concern. I look to express my opinion on here both to participate in debate and to learn. I have learned from this thread for example and that gives me more peace of mind than i had before.

You follow my comments as much as most posters so you know full well that I am a Clough supporter but one who has some doubts whether he can take us all the way up to the Premier League. I would love him to allay those doubts, nothing would make me happier, but I also know it will all take a couple of years to work through. I've no issue whatsoever with him being given the chancebut the main area of weakness i see is Scouting.

As for his brother. Yes I am uncomfortable with him doing the job wherever Nigel goes. In the company I worked for I never understood why sons of successful fathers joined the same company as their dads, it's the last place I would have worked. When Simon didn't work for Nigel's employer he had a few years as a newsagent (in Derby). Nothing wrong with that but I would gain some reassurance if he had got a good job in football with another club, working for other people. Whatever you say, and I respect your opinion, as you have seen from the "likes" I give you, worryingly far more than you give me, I just do not believe he is the best man for the job at Bramall Lane. In many walks of life under Equal Opportunities it could not happen that a brother gets the job every time.

From that starting point I have looked carefully at the quality of our player recruitment and I have said above that it has been barely average over the 14 months. I tried not to form an opinion for most of that time .Of course Brayford keeps the troops happy for a while, but the fact remains we are not where we should in the league right now. It could be said that the cup runs have been a distraction and exhausting. That is another management strategy, whether to compete so hard in those competitions, but I am all for having a go within certain parameters, and that has been the case.

Actually I couldn't care less what Derby are doing now. What bothers me is why Clough was not entrusted any longer with the job. They are doing great but so what. The reason I looked at what Derby fans said about our manager was to help me make my own mind up about a man I was delighted to see at Bramall Lane. I think some of their criticisms have been repeated and that's why I score him a 4 on this thread.

I'm pleased my intitial modest comments caused such a stir because I have learned from the reaction. That's why I'm on here.

P.S. There are doubts expressed in the results of the poll on this thread, even this week of all weeks.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Whether many agree with me or not is not my concern. I look to express my opinion on here both to participate in debate and to learn. I have learned from this thread for example and that gives me more peace of mind than i had before.

You follow my comments as much as most posters so you know full well that I am a Clough supporter but one who has some doubts whether he can take us all the way up to the Premier League. I would love him to allay those doubts, nothing would make me happier, but I also know it will all take a couple of years to work through. I've no issue whatsoever with him being given the chancebut the main area of weakness i see is Scouting.

As for his brother. Yes I am uncomfortable with him doing the job wherever Nigel goes. In the company I worked for I never understood why sons of successful fathers joined the same company as their dads, it's the last place I would have worked. When Simon didn't work for Nigel's employer he had a few years as a newsagent (in Derby). Nothing wrong with that but I would gain some reassurance if he had got a good job in football with another club, working for other people. Whatever you say, and I respect your opinion, as you have seen from the "likes" I give you, worryingly far more than you give me, I just do not believe he is the best man for the job at Bramall Lane. In many walks of life under Equal Opportunities it could not happen that a brother gets the job every time.

From that starting point I have looked carefully at the quality of our player recruitment and I have said above that it has been barely average over the 14 months. I tried not to form an opinion for most of that time .Of course Brayford keeps the troops happy for a while, but the fact remains we are not where we should in the league right now. It could be said that the cup runs have been a distraction and exhausting. That is another management strategy, whether to compete so hard in those competitions, but I am all for having a go within certain parameters, and that has been the case.

Actually I couldn't care less what Derby are doing now. What bothers me is why Clough was not entrusted any longer with the job. They are doing great but so what. The reason I looked at what Derby fans said about our manager was to help me make my own mind up about a man I was delighted to see at Bramall Lane. I think some of their criticisms have been repeated and that's why I score him a 4 on this thread.

I'm pleased my intitial modes comments caused such a stir because I have learned from the reaction. That's why I'm on here.

P.S. There are doubts expressed in the results of the poll on this thread, even this week of all weeks.

Woodward , do respect your post , but this week of all weeks to have a pop at Mr Clough brother is not required.

Yes , when we were going through a bad patch before christmas , if we are all honest , we perhaps questioned what his overall remit was.

Both Mr Clough and Mr Clough brother learnt a tremendous amount about the game of football sitting in the dug out with Mr Clough Senior and Mr Taylor . One made it as a footballer , the other didn't , but knows football inside out.

They do come as a package and it does seem to work , so why try to fix it if it is not broken. This is a situation were it is definitely not job for the boys. Mr Clough does not play them sort of games .At least we now have trusting , committed management and staff , whose aim and goal , is to do there the best for SUFC.

Also the bloke will not be on mega bucks , and no doubt earns his corn , three fold.

Why did he leave Derby - Because the board lost its bottle , like boards do. I am telling you Mr McLaren will fail at Derby , but then , who gives a toss.

If i was in the trenches , give me Mr Clough and Mr Clough brother any time.

Its all about OP Woody , but this week , i think you are in the minority of one.

UTB

 

[Woodwardfan]

Woodward , do respect your post , but this week of all weeks to have a pop at Mr Clough brother is not required.

Yes , when we were going through a bad patch before christmas , if we are all honest , we perhaps questioned what his overall remit was.

Both Mr Clough and Mr Clough brother learnt a tremendous amount about the game of football sitting in the dug out with Mr Clough Senior and Mr Taylor . One made it as a footballer , the other didn't , but knows football inside out.

They do come as a package and it does seem to work , so why try to fix it if it is not broken. This is a situation were it is definitely not job for the boys. Mr Clough does not play them sort of games .At least we now have trusting , committed management and staff , whose aim and goal , is to do there the best for SUFC.

Also the bloke will not be on mega bucks , and no doubt earns his corn , three fold.

Why did he leave Derby - Because the board lost its bottle , like boards do. I am telling you Mr McLaren will fail at Derby , but then , who gives a toss.

If i was in the trenches , give me Mr Clough and Mr Clough brother any time.

Its all about OP Woody , but this week , i think you are in the minority of one.

UTB

Issues do not go away because the board give the manager £1m to spend. Just an honest appraisal of Clough and his team. Get rid of the possible weakness and we may be in business. I have not chosen the timing, I merely commented on this thread in all honessty. Honesty doesn't come or go with big signings. I don't support the Mancs FGS. However I do still hope to be convinced by the Chief Scout if he does his stuff. Do you think he has M'Lord, honestly?

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Issues do not go away because the board give the manager £1m to spend. Just an honest appraisal of Clough and his team. Get rid of the possible weakness and we may be in business. I have not chosen the timing, I merely commented on this thread in all honessty. Honesty doesn't come or go with big signings. I don't support the Mancs FGS. However I do still hope to be convinced by the Chief Scout if he does his stuff. Do you think he has M'Lord, honestly?

Woody , i think the title of Chief Scout perhaps is a little misleading . Mr Clough is more like a director of football who directs and delegates tasks to his management team and staff .

Mr Clough brother , with Mr Garner , Mr Morgan , all analysis players on Mr Clough behalf . I personally think the formula is right . Bear in mind there brothers , and in my experience , do not always agree or see eye to eye.

SUFC have no time or a place for yes men.

He appears to be a integral part of the team , which does work. I am with him . Mr Clough is the gaffer .

Any way would you want to argue with his Mrs.

UTB

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Issues do not go away because the board give the manager £1m to spend. Just an honest appraisal of Clough and his team. Get rid of the possible weakness and we may be in business. I have not chosen the timing, I merely commented on this thread in all honessty. Honesty doesn't come or go with big signings. I don't support the Mancs FGS. However I do still hope to be convinced by the Chief Scout if he does his stuff. Do you think he has M'Lord, honestly?

Woody , just noted you are from Whitby .

Bet to celebrate the beard coming back , you have had fish and chips in the Magpie.

UTB

 

[Woodwardfan]

Woody , just noted you are from Whitby .

Bet to celebrate the beard coming back , you have had fish and chips in the Magpie.

UTB

Most weeks, even in the bad times!! One of the best restaurants( as opposed to cafes) in the UK., Yorkshire style that is. Trust you know it.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Most weeks, even in the bad times!! One of the best restaurants( as opposed to cafes) in the UK., Yorkshire style that is. Trust you know it.

Woody know it very well . Believe it or not been going to Whitby , Sandsend for over 50 years .

Always had a soft spot for Whitby Town .

Magpie - best in the world.

Lucky lad Woody . God bless yer.

( still think you are wrong on Mr Clough brother )

UTB

 

[Woodwardfan]

Woody , just noted you are from Whitby .

Bet to celebrate the beard coming back , you have had fish and chips in the Magpie.

UTB

Have you been looking?

 

[Woodwardfan]

Woody , i think the title of Chief Scout perhaps is a little misleading . Mr Clough is more like a director of football who directs and delegates tasks to his management team and staff .

Mr Clough brother , with Mr Garner , Mr Morgan , all analysis players on Mr Clough behalf . I personally think the formula is right . Bear in mind there brothers , and in my experience , do not always agree or see eye to eye.

SUFC have no time or a place for yes men.

He appears to be a integral part of the team , which does work. I am with him . Mr Clough is the gaffer .

Any way would you want to argue with his Mrs.

UTB

Is this so? Again I learn something. In that case who does the scouting. I must say I would again be relieved but I still do not understand why we as a club are so tunnel visioned ( ok no tunnel between Sheffiled and Derby, Ilkeston, Scotland and Blackpool) - bad metaphor.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Is this so? Again I learn something. In that case who does the scouting. I must say I would again be relieved but I still do not understand why we as a club are so tunnel visioned ( ok no tunnel between Sheffiled and Derby, Ilkeston, Scotland and Blackpool) - bad metaphor.

How the players we have recruited from Blackpool , Derby , Ilkeston , Scotland , Blackpool are performing , i am surprised scouts from other clubs are not following him in the car . More success than failures .

Mr Clough brother has a team of scouts who look at the opposition , potential players and players out on loan.

Better the devil you know .

UTB

 

[Woodwardfan]

How the players we have recruited from Blackpool , Derby , Ilkeston , Scotland , Blackpool are performing , i am surprised scouts from other clubs are not following him in the car . More success than failures .

Mr Clough brother has a team of scouts who look at the opposition , potential players and players out on loan.

Better the devil you know .

UTB

Who is responsible for Scouting? We went over 2 years without a Chief Scout a few years ago. Although we have a great Academy, no matter who is manager, our success and failure will depend on our signings, it always does.

 

[Woodwardfan]

It is about opinions - and I don't think many, in this case agree with you.

As for Clough at Derby - sure the powers that be got rid of him - but it is pure speculation and guess work that Clough may not have taken Derby to where they are now. For all anyone knows, Cloughs Derby might now be 10 points clear at the top of the Championship. As for Derby fans on a form - well who'd honestly listen to any bigoted fans on a forum

As for Cloughs brother - can't really see why you want to keep having a pop at him - The management team sounds like it's based on the musketeers - all for one and one for all, in a similar way Clough backed up Morgs against that Dutch nob at Southampton. Quite noticeable that the very next TV interview was done by Morgs - yet another small way of Clough backing his management team.

UTB

Just in case you are still up Fulwood the poll shows that 60% voted "starting to believe" or less. Surprised?

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Who is responsible for Scouting? We went over 2 years without a Chief Scout a few years ago. Although we have a great Academy, no matter who is manager, our success and failure will depend on our signings, it always does.

Just have faith Woody .

We once had Billy Graham at BDTBL

UTB

 

[Woodwardfan]

Just have faith Woody .

We once had Billy Graham at BDTBL

UTB

He ruined the pitch!

I've been to Bramall Lane Baptists for many years! and always used to watch the grass grow on the football pitch in the Yorkshire cricket season when I was young, even watched Sheffield United Cricket Club at Bramall Lane regularly. Believe me I know what faith is and for years it was blind faith. Experience, wisdom, weariness, realism, call it what you like, I now see the wood from the trees very clearly( IMO!!). I'm sure it always used to be more fun. This internet lark takes my analysis and obsession further than ever, bloody great it is!! I have the time and everybody on here must have too!!

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

He ruined the pitch!

I've been to Bramall Lane Baptists for many years! and always used to watch the grass grow on the football pitch in the Yorkshire cricket season when I was young, even watched Sheffield United Cricket Club at Bramall Lane regularly. Believe me I know what faith is and for years it was blind faith. Experience, wisdom, weariness, realism, call it what you like, I now see the wood from the trees very clearly( IMO!!). I'm sure it always used to be more fun. This internet lark takes my analysis and obsession further than ever, bloody great it is!! I have the time and everybody on here must have too!!

I work all over the place at the moment . You can live , work any where in the world . You move house , city . The only thing you go and stay with is your football club.

Football is a passion and religion rolled into one which Mr Brayford has proved this week.

UTB

 

[Woodwardfan]

It is about opinions - and I don't think many, in this case agree with you.

As for Clough at Derby - sure the powers that be got rid of him - but it is pure speculation and guess work that Clough may not have taken Derby to where they are now. For all anyone knows, Cloughs Derby might now be 10 points clear at the top of the Championship. As for Derby fans on a form - well who'd honestly listen to any bigoted fans on a forum

As for Cloughs brother - can't really see why you want to keep having a pop at him - The management team sounds like it's based on the musketeers - all for one and one for all, in a similar way Clough backed up Morgs against that Dutch nob at Southampton. Quite noticeable that the very next TV interview was done by Morgs - yet another small way of Clough backing his management team.

UTB

Just a little mention before the main event tonight Fulwood.

We had a good debate and IMO you left it early. This is about the third time you have deserted a good debate with me.

You may think I argue forever, but I try not to be like that. I will debate until I believe there is merit in the other point of view which helps me change my viewpoint, that is healthy. On the other hand, if I think the other fella is never going to listen I will also check out.

On this thread I was listening and responding. You never carried it through and that disappointed me. Thought I'd mention it for the future.

It is entirely possible to back our manager but to acknowledge weak areas. That is an intellectual viewpoint. Blind faith is extreme in fact.

I invite you to have your say and I promise I will not respond on here.