John Fleck stats

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This should be in general blades chat surely, especially if you want to shift the weight of opinion.
Mods..?
 
Anyone who’s criticised him for his contribution this season either spend too much time in the pub before games or are just thick.

Him and Norwood have been the best midfield partnership in the League.
 
I got sick and tired of telling people that Fleck played a different role this season, one where it helped us to a lot of clean sheets so to get those stats makes him even more impressive. Some just like to have a go for the sake of it and Fleck who tries 100% in every game doesn’t deserve it.

I’ll repeat yet again, only when John Fleck leaves will some people realise how important he is or was. It will cost millions to replace him.
 
Fleck had 2 or 3 wobbly games where his particularly high standards were not in evidence.

Beyond that, he was mostly superb.

UTB
 
Pinchy doesn't dislike Fleck, in fact it's very much the opposite, which is the reasoning for him calling him out regularly during his bad spell. He knows he's a better player than he was showing at the time.
 

DronnieBlade said:
Fleck had 2 or 3 wobbly games where his particularly high standards were not in evidence.

Beyond that, he was mostly superb.

UTB
Click to expand...

Only if giving the ball away, lethargy and allowing opponents to run free into the space behind you is now considered ‘superb’.

He was a worthy successor to the legendary number 4 shirt for at least a dozen games. A lot of people noticed that, not just me as the Bladey mythology would suggest. Others closed their eyes and imagined what they wanted to see.

Happily he was right back on it by the end of the season. He’ll need to be next year because he won’t get away with losing possession so frequently and ultimately he’ll lose his place. Wait and see.
 
Scooter_mcgavin said:
Pinchy doesn't dislike Fleck, in fact it's very much the opposite, which is the reasoning for him calling him out regularly during his bad spell. He knows he's a better player than he was showing at the time.
Click to expand...

Absolutely 100% right. He’s a proper footballer who I’ve enjoyed watching immensely. Those who insist there was never a problem are kidding themselves.

The Dowell goal against Stoke was created by Real Fleck. There was a troubling spell, too long to ignore, when he resembled a left-footed version of a much loved number 4 of the past...
 
Pinchy said:
Only if giving the ball away, lethargy and allowing opponents to run free into the space behind you is now considered ‘superb’.

He was a worthy successor to the legendary number 4 shirt for at least a dozen games. A lot of people noticed that, not just me as the Bladey mythology would suggest. Others closed their eyes and imagined what they wanted to see.

Happily he was right back on it by the end of the season. He’ll need to be next year because he won’t get away with losing possession so frequently and ultimately he’ll lose his place. Wait and see.
Click to expand...
Interesting that you, and others, see frailties that (seemingly) relate to defensive duties alone.

Do you have an explanation for the stats quoted in the OP that kinda suggests that JF isn’t used in this kind of role ?

I’m not suggesting that players have not gotten in behind. That would be daft. But I’d also suggest that the one lad can’t be in 2 places at once and that, some of the things that you, and others, are seeing is weaknesses in our attacking system and not specific flaws in this particular player.

There are plenty of crunching tackles also in evidence that have broken the oppositions play and counter attacks that have been invaluable to us.

Not looking for a row on this, and no one is perfect, so I’m sure some of what you say is correct. But also am wanting to stick up for a player that has been absolutely centric to what we have achieved since he has been here.

UTB
 
Pinchy said:
Absolutely 100% right. He’s a proper footballer who I’ve enjoyed watching immensely. Those who insist there was never a problem are kidding themselves.

The Dowell goal against Stoke was created by Real Fleck. There was a troubling spell, too long to ignore, when he resembled a left-footed version of a much loved number 4 of the past...
Click to expand...

Seemed to coincide with his first call up for Scotland, similarly with Freeman & Wales.
 
I talked about Fleck and his role with my dad whilst watching the Ipswich game. We said how he doesn't get mentioned or commented on etc.
Anyone who has criticised Fleck this season doesn't know football or tactics. The job that this guy has done for us in midfield is immense. Unfortunately for him, it's the job that gets over looked by fans. His role this season has been to play box to box, disrupt and win the ball, be available to depend and break and get forward when we attack. Its a role that is so underappreciated and gets overlooked. Just because he isn't scoring a bag full of goals or has immense flair on the ball doesn't mean he's not been good enough. The guy has been instrumental in our success and, I for one, couldn't sing his praises more. I think he will make the step up to the prem and a starting XI spot in the Scottish national team is his (has been for last couple of years but overlooked).
For me, this shouldn't even be a discussion and the stats appear to back him up!
UTB
 
Scooter_mcgavin said:
Pinchy doesn't dislike Fleck, in fact it's very much the opposite, which is the reasoning for him calling him out regularly during his bad spell. He knows he's a better player than he was showing at the time.
Click to expand...
He tries to hide it but it doesn’t fool me. He can’t do a post without criticising him in some regard, even on a thread praising him. He’s done exactly what I said almost straight after your post, I’m just surprised that you and many others haven’t picked up on it.
 
Pinchy said:
Absolutely 100% right. He’s a proper footballer who I’ve enjoyed watching immensely. Those who insist there was never a problem are kidding themselves.

The Dowell goal against Stoke was created by Real Fleck. There was a troubling spell, too long to ignore, when he resembled a left-footed version of a much loved number 4 of the past...
Click to expand...
A troubling spell, too long to ignore? In a team that’s come second in one of the hardest leagues in the world, whilst being one of the first names on a team sheet of a manager who replaces people that aren’t cutting the mustard straight away? What utter clap trap. Only in S2
 
metalblade said:
Fleck is one of my favourites but as Nick Jansky says after returning from being with the Scotland squad his form was poor anyone not recognising this are not being honest. Happily as they say form is temporary class is permanent.
Click to expand...
It’s not a case of not being honest, to say it was poor is ridiculous and either not being honest or people don’t realise when a player plays a different role in a lot of games over the full season.

Fleck can’t just go maurading forward all the time when the standard of players get better and better, especially when we already have Duffy, Goldy and Billy attacking, along with our wingbacks and on quite a few occasions one of our centre backs.

I’ll ask you this then and to anyone else who thinks Fleck has been poor this season for “long spells”, why doesn’t Wilder take him out of the team like he did with Billy and a few others this season when their form drops off?

My take is because no one can play the role Wilder asks of him anywhere near the standard of Fleck and to get someone who can would cost a lot of money and perhaps, just maybe, he wasn’t as “poor” as some make out.
 
I'd agree that he had a few games where he was playing beneath himself but there was also a definite element of his role changing slightly. Fleck and Norwood have to play a very intelligent role where they're the two players that drop back to cover for the defenders bombing forward. That means sometimes Fleck isn't running at players and getting involved higher up the pitch as much as I like to see.

The stats for Norwood on tackles and interceptions are excellent. I'm willing to guess it'll be similar for Fleck. It was him and JOC that I expected to be Premier League players next season with or without us.
 

wizadry said:
It’s not a case of not being honest, to say it was poor is ridiculous and either not being honest or people don’t realise when a player plays a different role in a lot of games over the full season.

Fleck can’t just go maurading forward all the time when the standard of players get better and better, especially when we already have Duffy, Goldy and Billy attacking, along with our wingbacks and on quite a few occasions one of our centre backs.

I’ll ask you this then and to anyone else who thinks Fleck has been poor this season for “long spells”, why doesn’t Wilder take him out of the team like he did with Billy and a few others this season when their form drops off?

My take is because no one can play the role Wilder asks of him anywhere near the standard of Fleck and to get someone who can would cost a lot of money and perhaps, just maybe, he wasn’t as “poor” as some make out.
Click to expand...
Well let's look at who could have played instead of Fleck, we have had this season Lundstram, Dowell, Woodburn, Coutts and Johnson otherwise it means pulling bash out of the back three. I think that answers why Fleck was picked, even when his form wasn't so good he was still the best option.
 
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