Willo's Red Card

[SteelCity Blade]

It would appear that he is suspended for four games. How does that work exactly? I was under the impression a straight red meant a three game ban or does it depend on the manner of the supposed offence? MA is quoted as saying something along the lines of "it hasnt been overturned but at least they havent added an extra game to it so he will miss four" - eh? Surely that means they have added a game?!

Could someone who is fully brushed up on red cards/suspensions etc clarify this for me because I dont understand why he's been given that long a ban.

Having watched both incidents, Hendo's second yellow was deserved it was a wreckless challenge and I cant imagine why he made it. As for Willo's I thought it was a pathetic decision by the ref. If Doyley cant stand up to that he should be playing a contact sport.....very, very soft IMO that decision. If Willo had challenged me like that the only person that would have been on the deck is him.....their player made the most of it from what I could see.

 

[sothall blade]

It would appear that he is suspended for four games. How does that work exactly? I was under the impression a straight red meant a three game ban or does it depend on the manner of the supposed offence? MA is quoted as saying something along the lines of "it hasnt been overturned but at least they havent added an extra game to it so he will miss four" - eh? Surely that means they have added a game?!

Could someone who is fully brushed up on red cards/suspensions etc clarify this for me because I dont understand why he's been given that long a ban.

Having watched both incidents, Hendo's second yellow was deserved it was a wreckless challenge and I cant imagine why he made it. As for Willo's I thought it was a pathetic decision by the ref. If Doyley cant stand up to that he should be playing a contact sport.....very, very soft IMO that decision. If Willo had challenged me like that the only person that would have been on the deck is him.....their player made the most of it from what I could see.

because its sheffield utd mate, simple,we dont get any support off the FA

 

[JohnDenver]

A player's punishments get more severe if their crimes are repeated within a certain time period. It's fair enough really.

 

[Revolution]

I assume it's four games because it's his second red card of the season, following on from the one at Ipswich.

 

[Robbie]

I assume it's four games because it's his second red card of the season, following on from the one at Ipswich.

Spot on with this

 

[Micalijo]

It would appear that he is suspended for four games. How does that work exactly? I was under the impression a straight red meant a three game ban or does it depend on the manner of the supposed offence? MA is quoted as saying something along the lines of "it hasnt been overturned but at least they havent added an extra game to it so he will miss four" - eh? Surely that means they have added a game?!

Could someone who is fully brushed up on red cards/suspensions etc clarify this for me because I dont understand why he's been given that long a ban.

Having watched both incidents, Hendo's second yellow was deserved it was a wreckless challenge and I cant imagine why he made it. As for Willo's I thought it was a pathetic decision by the ref. If Doyley cant stand up to that he should be playing a contact sport.....very, very soft IMO that decision. If Willo had challenged me like that the only person that would have been on the deck is him.....their player made the most of it from what I could see.

Are you the incredible hunk or somat? Willo takes a 10 yard run into you at pace yet you could somehow head the ball from a standing position and also knock him over whilst landing on your feet?

I'm surprised you aren't suggesting we appeal it?

Doyley got up pretty quick I believe, didn't roll around.

 

[Bergen Blade]

When I saw the Henderson offence I thought it looked like he was anticipating the knock down and went 100% for the ball, but it turned out the Watford defender met the ball and got there first. It looked bad, but I don't think Henderson even saw, let alone intended to tackle, the player. He just tried to get on the end of the knock down.

 

[SteelCity Blade]

A player's punishments get more severe if their crimes are repeated within a certain time period. It's fair enough really.

I assume it's four games because it's his second red card of the season, following on from the one at Ipswich.

Thanks gents, I wasn't aware of that but I'll remember it in future. I can understand the sense in it.

 

[JohnDenver]

I can understand the sense in it.

In that case, please can you explain it to Darius.

 

[Robbie]

As for Willo's I thought it was a pathetic decision by the ref. If Doyley cant stand up to that he should be playing a contact sport.....very, very soft IMO that decision. If Willo had challenged me like that the only person that would have been on the deck is him.....their player made the most of it from what I could see.

HOLD ON HOLD ON.

I suggest you go review the replay again.
Doyle was mid air when he challenged for the ball and he was full blown smashed into by Williamson. If someone had stayed on their feet after that and had Williamson on the floor, they must be made of metal.
I agree the decision is wrong, but to suggest Doyle made the most of it is way off the mark too.
Doyle gets smashed into, lands on the floor a couple of seconds, regains himself and then get up with no over-reaction at all.

Come on, you're meant to be this player who has 'played at a decent level' as you keep telling us, you should know the situation when it is like that.

Go away, review it again, and have the grace to come back and admit you're wrong.

 

[Micalijo]

HOLD ON HOLD ON.

I suggest you go review the replay again.
Doyle was mid air when he challenged for the ball and he was full blown smashed into by Williamson. If someone had stayed on their feet after that and had Williamson on the floor, they must be made of metal.
I agree the decision is wrong, but to suggest Doyle made the most of it is way off the mark too.
Doyle gets smashed into, lands on the floor a couple of seconds, regains himself and then get up with no over-reaction at all.

Come on, you're meant to be this player who has 'played at a decent level' as you keep telling us, you should know the situation when it is like that.

Go away, review it again, and have the grace to come back and admit you're wrong.

It's a mans game Robbie. Real men don't let anyone push em over on a football pitch, even if they have piled into you from 10 yards with little hope of getting the ball.

 

[Balham]

When I saw the Henderson offence I thought it looked like he was anticipating the knock down and went 100% for the ball, but it turned out the Watford defender met the ball and got there first. It looked bad, but I don't think Henderson even saw, let alone intended to tackle, the player. He just tried to get on the end of the knock down.

A couple of years ago, I was playing centre half in a Sunday league game. I cleared the ball as a striker threw himself at a cross and ended up with damaged tendons in my left foot which put me out for nearly 8 months as he caught me late. The striker didn't get booked and I didn't expect him to - he was going for the ball.

I guess that's the difference between professional and amateur football though. With two bookings in the first 15 minutes it sounds like the referee didn't try and calm anything down or have a quiet word with any of the players, he just reached for his pocket.

 

[SteelCity Blade]

Are you the incredible hunk or somat? Willo takes a 10 yard run into you at pace yet you could somehow head the ball from a standing position and also knock him over whilst landing on your feet?

I'm surprised you aren't suggesting we appeal it?

Doyley got up pretty quick I believe, didn't roll around.

Good morning mic, I missed you. I dont know about being a hunk but I suppose I dont scrub up too badly

What would be the point in appealing? We're Sheffield United. I'm not sure if he got up quickly mic, on the replay he seemed to be sprawled out like he'd been shot. If he got up quickly after that then obviously there wasnt a great deal wrong with him - contrary to what their manager might suggest. Willo isnt exactly Jon Parkin mic. A player like Doyley (fairly solid but short - with a low centre of gravity) cant stand up to that when he's throwing his own momentum at the ball? I would suggest in that case he tries a non-contact sport.

---------- Post added at 11:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:54 AM ----------

HOLD ON HOLD ON.

I suggest you go review the replay again.
Doyle was mid air when he challenged for the ball and he was full blown smashed into by Williamson. If someone had stayed on their feet after that and had Williamson on the floor, they must be made of metal.
I agree the decision is wrong, but to suggest Doyle made the most of it is way off the mark too.
Doyle gets smashed into, lands on the floor a couple of seconds, regains himself and then get up with no over-reaction at all.

Come on, you're meant to be this player who has 'played at a decent level' as you keep telling us, you should know the situation when it is like that.

Go away, review it again, and have the grace to come back and admit you're wrong.

Reviewed it again, still think the same and I never mind admitting if I genuinely think I'm wrong Robbie. My own football experience has nothing to do with it.....I've looked at the incident and applied some common sense. Doyley is laid flat out, but then mic says he got up quickly.....hmmm miraculous?????

He clearly goes shoulder to shoulder with him.....so does the speed of his approach have a bearing on whether it is a foul or not? Sorry, I can watch that a thousand times and I still see nothing in it. Only that Doyley looks to be turning away from the player before it happens.

 

[Micalijo]

Good morning mic, I missed you. I dont know about being a hunk but I suppose I dont scrub up too badly

What would be the point in appealing? We're Sheffield United. I'm not sure if he got up quickly mic, on the replay he seemed to be sprawled out like he'd been shot. If he got up quickly after that then obviously there wasnt a great deal wrong with him - contrary to what their manager might suggest. Willo isnt exactly Jon Parkin mic. A player like Doyley (fairly solid but short - with a low centre of gravity) cant stand up to that when he's throwing his own momentum at the ball? I would suggest in that case he tries a non-contact sport.

I'm lost for words. OK, I'm not - he was in mid-air, eyes on the ball, jumping vertically as you do when ball is above obviously with very little forward momentum towards Willo. Honestly steel, I can totally understand your argument that it was harsh - fair enough, I obviously disagree and think ref made a reasonable decision.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I see your stance as a world where football is viewed as a battle of strength and macho posturing above all else (win the battle and football will flow type of teamtalk) but in 2011 where refs are told to encourage 'football' you cannot charge at someobody a la Nat Lofthouse (and willo did seem to me to tunr sideays with arms raised when he knew contact was coming) and to suggest Doyley milked it is imo wrong but I wasn't there to see aftermath after the highlights on TV - going on what I've heard about Doyley getting up.

 

[Bladesman]

HOLD ON HOLD ON.

I suggest you go review the replay again.
Doyle was mid air when he challenged for the ball and he was full blown smashed into by Williamson. If someone had stayed on their feet after that and had Williamson on the floor, they must be made of metal.
I agree the decision is wrong, but to suggest Doyle made the most of it is way off the mark too.
Doyle gets smashed into, lands on the floor a couple of seconds, regains himself and then get up with no over-reaction at all.

Come on, you're meant to be this player who has 'played at a decent level' as you keep telling us, you should know the situation when it is like that.

Go away, review it again, and have the grace to come back and admit you're wrong.

Good to see Willo was tackling our own players as well as Doyley.

 

[SteelCity Blade]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I see your stance as a world where football is viewed as a battle of strength and macho posturing above all else (win the battle and football will flow type of teamtalk) but in 2011 where refs are told to encourage 'football' you cannot charge at someobody a la Nat Lofthouse (and willo did seem to me to tunr sideays with arms raised when he knew contact was coming) and to suggest Doyley milked it is imo wrong but I wasn't there to see aftermath after the highlights on TV - going on what I've heard about Doyley getting up.

That's exactly what Doyley did! Watch the replay again - he knows Willo is coming so turns away from him. He's not facing Willo or the ball at all (you might argue its a good job he didnt), my argument would be that he sees Willo charging towards him and decides to make the most of it. Our player connects shoulder to shoulder with their player and there is nothing in the rules to suggest that sort of contact is illegal. The ferocity of it should make no difference - clearly to the referee it does.

Football to me is about both aspects mic, skill and physical prowess. They seem totally driven to make it all technique based now and remove the physical aspect which I find sad and I'm not from the Nat Lofthouse days you refer to.....not even close. That's a debate for another day. Remove the speed of his approach from it, what exactly is the offence? What part of Williamson's body does he use illegally and which part of Doyley does he contact with illegally?

 

[Robbie]

Reviewed it again, still think the same and I never mind admitting if I genuinely think I'm wrong Robbie. My own football experience has nothing to do with it.....I've looked at the incident and applied some common sense. Doyley is laid flat out, but then mic says he got up quickly.....hmmm miraculous?????

He clearly goes shoulder to shoulder with him.....so does the speed of his approach have a bearing on whether it is a foul or not? Sorry, I can watch that a thousand times and I still see nothing in it. Only that Doyley looks to be turning away from the player before it happens.

I'm calling upon your own football experience to appreciate what has happened in this incident and relate to it.

Doyle is laid flat out, surely you can relate to this after a 'hard' challenge, you know you've got a free kick, have a couple of seconds to regain themselves, then back on their feet. It's perfectly understandable. There's no rolling around or anything

As for turning a little at the end, well if you know you're going to be clattered, you would shield yourself a little to minimise the clattering.

Who said the speed had anything to do with it? It was a yellow card offence.

 

[JohnDenver]

Our player connects shoulder to shoulder with their player and there is nothing in the rules to suggest that sort of contact is illegal.

"Excessive force" is the concept being applied here. That earned the red card.

In any event, you simply cannot shoulder charge another player out of the way. You can ease a player away from the ball, or two players may lean into each other in contesting the ball, but a shoulder charge is a foul.

 

[Robbie]

That's exactly what Doyley did! Watch the replay again - he knows Willo is coming so turns away from him. He's not facing Willo or the ball at all (you might argue its a good job he didnt), my argument would be that he sees Willo charging towards him and decides to make the most of it. Our player connects shoulder to shoulder with their player and there is nothing in the rules to suggest that sort of contact is illegal. The ferocity of it should make no difference - clearly to the referee it does.

Please see the attached picture....

It looks to me more like shoulder to hear, not shoulder to shoulder.
If a player fouls another player, which has clearly happened - then it's a foul. Shoulder to shoulder would suggest that they're running for the ball and one person coming out stronger, not being clattered when you're in a stationary position and jumping for a header.

You say he is not facing Willo or the ball - for good reason if you ask me.
Also though, you may note that Williamson is also not facing the ball or the player - is he trying to make the most of the challenge?

 

[SteelCity Blade]

I'm calling upon your own football experience to appreciate what has happened in this incident and relate to it.

Doyle is laid flat out, surely you can relate to this after a 'hard' challenge, you know you've got a free kick, have a couple of seconds to regain themselves, then back on their feet. It's perfectly understandable. There's no rolling around or anything

As for turning a little at the end, well if you know you're going to be clattered, you would shield yourself a little to minimise the clattering.

Who said the speed had anything to do with it? It was a yellow card offence.

Hang on, we're now trying to establish that this is a yellow card offence? I thought Doyley had been full blown smashed into and would need to be made of metal to stand up to that challenge? A "clattering" I think was the term used. Surely the way yourself and mic have described this, it was aggressive and dangerous play - which would be worthy of a red card would it not?

If you're laid flat out then surely you've been knocked out? How would you suddenly recoup and get up so quickly? A lot of grey areas here IMO but I will respect other opinions even if I dont understand them. We have a different view of the incident and I dont think we're going to agree so that's fair enough.

 

[Robbie]

Hang on, we're now trying to establish that this is a yellow card offence? I thought Doyley had been full blown smashed into and would need to be made of metal to stand up to that challenge? A "clattering" I think was the term used. Surely the way yourself and mic have described this, it was aggressive and dangerous play - which would be worthy of a red card would it not?

He did clatter him, that there is no doubt.
Did he go for the ball? Yes. Did he get the ball? No..... conclusion, yellow card for me.

 

[SteelCity Blade]

Please see the attached picture....

It looks to me more like shoulder to hear, not shoulder to shoulder.
If a player fouls another player, which has clearly happened - then it's a foul. Shoulder to shoulder would suggest that they're running for the ball and one person coming out stronger, not being clattered when you're in a stationary position and jumping for a header.

You say he is not facing Willo or the ball - for good reason if you ask me.
Also though, you may note that Williamson is also not facing the ball or the player - is he trying to make the most of the challenge?

That picture is not clear enough to suggest he's making any contact with his head. Doyle's arm and shoulder are in between them for a start. Shoulder to shoulder would suggest that they contact at the shoulder - both of them. You're making the scenario/rule more complicated by saying if one player is stationary then the player in motion is commiting a foul. So is Williamson supposed to jog up to him - stop - and then nudge Doyley more gently???? How odd.

I can see Williamson is not facing the player. Should he run face first into Doyley's shoulder? Would you?

 

[Robbie]

That picture is not clear enough to suggest he's making any contact with his head. Doyle's arm and shoulder are in between them for a start. Shoulder to shoulder would suggest that they contact at the shoulder - both of them.

Where's the contact between shoulders then?
Are you suggesting the a player can have the ball, another player smash into him from the side at full sprint at shoulder to shoulder, not be a foul because it is 'shoulder to shoulder'.

You're making the scenario/rule more complicated by saying if one player is stationary then the player in motion is commiting a foul. So is Williamson supposed to jog up to him - stop - and then nudge Doyley more gently???? How odd.

See above.
If you can't see the difference, you've disappointed me.

I can see Williamson is not facing the player. Should he run face first into Doyley's shoulder? Would you?

EXCELLENT, we've made some progress. So you're accepting that Doyle is trying to protect himself from a clattering?

 

[j j]

Williamson has his right leg up; he jumped and kneed Doyle, not shoulder. Red card.

 

[SteelCity Blade]

So you're accepting that Doyle is trying to protect himself from a clattering?

No, I think I've made perfectly clear why I believe he's turning away from the ball/player. We could do this all day Robbie and I'm sure neither of us have the time. I dont see a great deal wrong with it, I think Doyley has made a meal - you disagree. Thats fine.

 

[muttsnuts]

Stupid foul to give away in that position anyway, got all he deserves. Do not play him again, same with Henderson. Time for some discipline, these two have been sent off 16 times in their career between them i believe. Pay em up and bomb em out!!!

 

[SwissBlade]

Haven't seen the incident as I've been travelling this week, but will look at it when I'm home. I'm interested from my own time of clattering and being clattered. RS said on the comms that it was harsh.

Sounds more over exuberant than dirty from what you all say. Did you see the clattering rooney dished out at the wkend? A good old fashioned clattering but fair.

Stupid foul to give away in that position anyway, got all he deserves. Do not play him again, same with Henderson. Time for some discipline, these two have been sent off 16 times in their career between them i believe. Pay em up and bomb em out!!!

Kin el and they say morgs is dirty!

 

[Highbury_Blade]

And which one do you think has been sent off the most?

 

[SwissBlade]

Just watched it. 100% nailed on red, reckless and stupid. Another stupid, rash lack of discipline from Willo.

I should also say that Quinn ran at least 30 yds to stick his face in the ref's to remonstrate with him for sending Willo off.

Now bearing in mind that Willo got sent off v Ipswich for exactly the same... I think it was 'aggressively approaching the ref' or similar, Quinn could've also been booked for this looked like Doyle was booked for dissent at the same time. Complete lack of discipline

---------- Post added at 10:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 PM ----------

And which one do you think has been sent off the most?

Hendo, then probably Morgs

 

[Highbury_Blade]

Morgs is out in front by a country mile on 12 i think, then Williamson on 9 and Hendo on 7....

Given the shit that Hendo's picked off people in the last couple of days i think williamson is getting off lightly. After all he's a crock too..