Will some fans be crying…

[Cheeky Blade]

…if we find ourselves two or three goals up at half time against Charlton because it would be ‘proof’ the players ‘tossed it off’ under Sellés?

I’ve seen the sentiment on here and elsewhere but still find it baffling tbh.

UTB.

 

[Blade45]

I won't be crying, but I was certainly raising my eyebrow at some of the 'effort' our players were showing, especially in the final 2 or 3 games of Selles' tenure.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

let's start with a shot on target first of all

 

[Rufus Smalls]

let's start with a shot on target first of all

Steady.

 

[SwissBlade]

…if we find ourselves two or three goals up at half time against Charlton because it would be ‘proof’ the players ‘tossed it off’ under Sellés?

I’ve seen the sentiment on here and elsewhere but still find it baffling tbh.

UTB.

Not sure it’s about effort. The players were trying under Selles. It just didn’t work.

Let’s see how we get on as I don’t think it’s so simple

 

[Nick Jansky]

…if we find ourselves two or three goals up at half time against Charlton because it would be ‘proof’ the players ‘tossed it off’ under Sellés?

I’ve seen the sentiment on here and elsewhere but still find it baffling tbh.

UTB.

If, as CW said in his presser, it’s time for everyone to come back together and unite this is exactly the sort of post that will help with that. Bravo.

 

[Shoes_On]

Motivation and man-management are a huge part of football management. Maybe it isn't one of Selles' strong points, the on-pitch dressing down being one example

 

[DronnieBlade]

Not sure it’s about effort. The players were trying under Selles. It just didn’t work.

Let’s see how we get on as I don’t think it’s so simple

There is a serious ? regarding effort.

Amongst worst for duels and pitch coverage. You have to ask why ?

UTB

 

[54yrblade]

I won't be crying, but I was certainly raising my eyebrow at some of the 'effort' our players were showing, especially in the final 2 or 3 games of Selles' tenure.

It can't have been coincidence that so many were so far off it all together

Embarrassingly obvious

But they'll 'run about' on Saturday

Watch 'em.

They pick and choose when to graft.

 

[Frank the tank]

…if we find ourselves two or three goals up at half time against Charlton because it would be ‘proof’ the players ‘tossed it off’ under Sellés?

I’ve seen the sentiment on here and elsewhere but still find it baffling tbh.

UTB.

Yes ...maybe ..I don't know !
What was the question

 

[Cheeky Blade]

Yes ...maybe ..I don't know !
What was the question

Does the fish have chips?

 

[Joeytheblade]

I don't think it was a case of not trying, more not understanding what they were being asked to do. Players were being played of position; Hamer as the holding man, Godfrey as a wing back, Cannon as a footballer...

 

[Frank the tank]

I don't think it was a case of not trying, more not understanding what they were being asked to do. Players were being played of position; Hamer as the holding man, Godfrey as a wing back, Cannon as a footballer...

Oh come on
They were waving the white flag

 

[Joeytheblade]

Oh come on
They were waving the white flag

Yeah they were but was it out of frustration at the change of system or just because they didn't fancy Selles?

 

[Razor_Blade]

I won't be crying, but I was certainly raising my eyebrow at some of the 'effort' our players were showing, especially in the final 2 or 3 games of Selles' tenure.

When you know something is bullcrap and the system & tactics are nonsense no matter what how much effort and pash'un you out in wil make it work. You get knackered trying. You'd give up too after going a couple down. Knowing you have no chance of a turn around.

Give it a rest.

 

[Blade45]

When you know something is bullcrap and the system & tactics are nonsense no matter what how much effort and pash'un you out in wil make it work. You get knackered trying. You'd give up too after going a couple down. Knowing you have no chance of a turn around.

Give it a rest.

Sorry, that's bollocks.

Selles was and is out of his depth. Everyone can see that. The players evidently did too. That's fine. Like I've said previously, I can forgive poor performances if the manager is clearly terrible.

The lack of effort is crazy to me, and I don't see how you can defend it. Just against Ipswich alone, we had lazy passes with no intention, wingers not caring enough to track back, and some of our defenders giving way too much space for their players to shoot. I'm not calling out anyone in particular, and I'm glad Wilder is back. But these players are professionals who get thousands of pounds a week to be footballers. The least they can do is put some effort in.

 

[The Crab]

Yeah they were but was it out of frustration at the change of system or just because they didn't fancy Selles?

Yes

 

[Stretch]

Not sure about crying, but after what I have seen in recent weeks, if we are 3 up at halftime on Saturday, I might be nipping off for a wank.

You will all be relieved to know that am watching the game at home.

 

[Razor_Blade]

Sorry, that's bollocks.

Selles was and is out of his depth. Everyone can see that. The players evidently did too. That's fine. Like I've said previously, I can forgive poor performances if the manager is clearly terrible.

The lack of effort is crazy to me, and I don't see how you can defend it. Just against Ipswich alone, we had lazy passes with no intention, wingers not caring enough to track back, and some of our defenders giving way too much space for their players to shoot. I'm not calling out anyone in particular, and I'm glad Wilder is back. But these players are professionals who get thousands of pounds a week to be footballers. The least they can do is put some effort in.

Have you never worked for a bad manager at work? Come on we are all human, you wouldn't run yourself into the ground trying to achieve a task you know you cant achieve.

 

[Kenilworth]

Sorry, that's bollocks.

Selles was and is out of his depth. Everyone can see that. The players evidently did too. That's fine. Like I've said previously, I can forgive poor performances if the manager is clearly terrible.

The lack of effort is crazy to me, and I don't see how you can defend it. Just against Ipswich alone, we had lazy passes with no intention, wingers not caring enough to track back, and some of our defenders giving way too much space for their players to shoot. I'm not calling out anyone in particular, and I'm glad Wilder is back. But these players are professionals who get thousands of pounds a week to be footballers. The least they can do is put some effort in.

I can absolutely see the point of the response.

When you’re asked to do something that is counterintuitive and is clearly not working it’s a natural response to ease off. If it’s too complicated and still leading to you conceding so easily it’s very disheartening. These players are human, not robots. They need confidence, a team system they trust, a collective sense that they are pulling together and contributing their individual part.
It’s not just about money and “being professional” if they don’t trust the system it will not function as a team.

 

[Mad Mick]

I for one think a draw will be a massive improvement.

 

[Blade45]

Have you never worked for a bad manager at work? Come on we are all human, you wouldn't run yourself into the ground trying to achieve a task you know you cant achieve. We are all human.

I understand that. No one would do something like that.

I’m of the opinion that tracking back isn’t going above and beyond. Indeed, in the modern game, it’s a basic necessity. Same goes for not backing off your man. It’s one thing to not go above and beyond for a task, it’s another thing completely to be so apathetic you hurt your own team’s chances of being successful.

Ultimately, Selles deserves the most blame for this mess. I am not disputing that.

 

[Kenilworth]

I understand that. No one would do something like that.

I’m of the opinion that tracking back isn’t going above and beyond. Indeed, in the modern game, it’s a basic necessity. Same goes for not backing off your man. It’s one thing to not go above and beyond for a task, it’s another thing completely to be so apathetic you hurt your own team’s chances of being successful.

Ultimately, Selles deserves the most blame for this mess. I am not disputing that.

I don’t think it’s the tracking back. The tactics were based on a high press (which was ineffective- even against Burton pre season) so the players are out of position, at the top end of the pitch, which left the huge gaps for teams to exploit behind. One or two passes and we’re open with no chance of recovery runs because they were starting 15-20 yards behind the break. I’ve seen players arriving back once the chance has been taken, 8-15 yards behind the play because the ball can move so much quicker than a man can run.

 

[Bradfordblade]

Have you never worked for a bad manager at work? Come on we are all human, you wouldn't run yourself into the ground trying to achieve a task you know you cant achieve.

Absolutely. Been there myself. it is incredibly difficult when you are led by a manager you don't have faith in and when you believe you are striving for impossible goals. I know these guys are in a very well paid, priviliged workplace but it is still their job and place of work. Footballers are human too. You could see they looked lost under Selles. You can'y buy in to a collective goal if you don't get it and you don't understand your role

 

[KMC-1889]

Not sure it’s about effort. The players were trying under Selles. It just didn’t work.

Let’s see how we get on as I don’t think it’s so simple

According to Wilder the stats say otherwise.

Can’t say I’m entirely comfortable with players that throw the towel in if they don’t get their way. Some of them did it last season too.

 

[Razor_Blade]

I understand that. No one would do something like that.

I’m of the opinion that tracking back isn’t going above and beyond. Indeed, in the modern game, it’s a basic necessity. Same goes for not backing off your man. It’s one thing to not go above and beyond for a task, it’s another thing completely to be so apathetic you hurt your own team’s chances of being successful.

Ultimately, Selles deserves the most blame for this mess. I am not disputing that.

Selles didn't play defence. He suck 4 at the back he probably didn't put emphasis on wingers tracking back. We've been spoilt it's how we've always played especially with the overlapping CH it was a must.

Brooks is pretty poor defensively, he should be out on loan not in the first team every game. He needs games.

Fans even slagged Hamer, I though in games for large portions he was the only one trying, the fact he ended up sat just in front of the defence picking the ball up all the time told a story on its own. It was terrible.

 

[Blade45]

I can absolutely see the point of the response.

When you’re asked to do something that is counterintuitive and is clearly not working it’s a natural response to ease off. If it’s too complicated and still leading to you conceding so easily it’s very disheartening. These players are human, not robots. They need confidence, a team system they trust, a collective sense that they are pulling together and contributing their individual part.
It’s not just about money and “being professional” if they don’t trust the system it will not function as a team.

Indeed, I can understand @Razor_Blade’s point; I was wrong to call it bollocks and I apologize for doing so. It was a valid point to make.

Like I said in a post above, I think there is a difference between not going above and beyond and not caring to the point of being a net negative on a team.

I don’t think it’s the tracking back. The tactics were based on a high press (which was ineffective- even against Burton pre season) so the players are out of position, at the top end of the pitch, which left the huge gaps for teams to exploit behind. One or two passes and we’re open with no chance of recovery runs because they were starting 15-20 yards behind the break. I’ve seen players arriving back once the chance has been taking 8-15 yards behind the play because the ball can move so much quicker than a man can run.

Indeed, Selles’ tactics generally made no sense, but I can distinctly remember Burrows being completely exposed and Barry making an, at best, lackluster attempt to get back. Godfrey looked like he just gave up, especially on their first goal. Lazy passes all round. It looked like they just didn't want to be there, and whilst I understand that Selles is to blame for that, I honestly expect better from players, I'd hope they don't completely throw the towel in when things aren't happening. I tend to have sympathy for the players, but it was too glaring for me to ignore. I respect that you feel differently, however.

 

[Kenilworth]

Indeed, I can understand @Razor_Blade’s point; I was wrong to call it bollocks and I apologize for doing so. It was a valid point to make.

Like I said in a post above, I think there is a difference between not going above and beyond and not caring to the point of being a net negative on a team.

Indeed, Selles’ tactics generally made no sense, but I can distinctly remember Burrows being completely exposed and Barry making an, at best, lackluster attempt to get back. Godfrey looked like he just gave up, especially on their first goal. Lazy passes all round. It looked like they just didn't want to be there, and whilst I understand that Selles is to blame for that, I honestly expect better from players, I'd hope they don't completely throw the towel in when things aren't happening. I tend to have sympathy for the players, but it was too glaring for me to ignore. I respect that you feel differently, however.

I’ve been hugely unimpressed with Godfrey as RB. Perhaps he can play as a RCB but I’d hate to see him be RB for much longer. He’ll get roasted every week and he doesn’t contribute to any attacking play.

 

[Blade45]

Selles didn't play defence. He suck 4 at the back he probably didn't put emphasis on wingers tracking back. We've been spoilt it's how we've always played especially with the overlapping CH it was a must.

This is true. I was thinking back to Illy Ndiaye when he played for us (I understand that he was at his best under Heckingbottom), but he always tracked back. Maybe I have been spoiled, I'm used to players with the same commitment as Ndiaye, when players like him don't come around like him too often.

Brooks is pretty poor defensively, he should be out on loan not in the first team every game. He needs games.

I thought he'd be more involved this season, but considering the influx of signings on the wings, I'd tend to agree.

Fans even slagged Hamer, I though in games for large portions he was the only one trying, the fact he ended up sat just in front of the defence picking the ball up all the time told a story on its own. It was terrible.

Yeah Gus didn't deserve that. I thought Tanganga and Matos also looked like they cared towards the end, when the general demeanor of the squad had obviously deteriorated.

I will never understand the hate Gus gets. He's our best player, and probably the best player in the championship.

 

[Blade45]

I’ve been hugely unimpressed with Godfrey as RB. Perhaps he can play as a RCB but I’d hate to see him be RB for much longer. He’ll get roasted every week and he doesn’t contribute to any attacking play.

Same here. One of the good things about Wilder coming back is that Seriki will presumably play more, and he is a much better right back than Godfrey.

I believe Godfrey played at RCB for Everton, but I think that even if we revert to a back three like we used to, I imagine that Tanganga would be RCB. In a back 4, I think the CB partnership would be Mee and Tanganga, who theoretically compliment each other very well.