will history repeat itself

[N20 Blade]

Difficult to say as there was always that question mark over his attitude but when he fancied it, he was a hell of a player.

He was also badly affected by the injury at the end of 'triple assault' season, never quite came back the same player. Remarkable stat about Shipperley being leading scorer, that was a real surprise. I guess it was a collective effort from the likes of Kabba, Ifill, Jags, Webber, etc.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Anyone looking forward to an entire season of the OP trawling through all 10 teams results to announce whenever we don't win that "X didnt beat them but still got promoted that season" and that it "just goes to show" ??


I know I am.

That's what Sunday mornings are for!

 

[1danewhitehouse]

He was also badly affected by the injury at the end of 'triple assault' season, never quite came back the same player. Remarkable stat about Shipperley being leading scorer, that was a real surprise. I guess it was a collective effort from the likes of Kabba, Ifill, Jags, Webber, etc.

I think it's largely down to the fact he played the most games of all our strikers. I think Kabba and Webber were both more prolific but they tended to rotate more with Kabba falling away completely towards the end of the season.

 

[Elsecar_Blade]

I think it's largely down to the fact he played the most games of all our strikers. I think Kabba and Webber were both more prolific but they tended to rotate more with Kabba falling away completely towards the end of the season.

Agree. If Kabba had played 40+ with the way he started the season, he'd have comfortably been top scorer. Had Webber played more consistently, he would have been too. Shipperley was about more than the goals though, he made that whole team work and when Warnock tried to replace him - Horsfield, Akinbiyi - things wobbled. It was the return of Shipperley in late February that sparked us back off again and gave us the push over the line.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Agree. If Kabba had played 40+ with the way he started the season, he'd have comfortably been top scorer. Had Webber played more consistently, he would have been too. Shipperley was about more than the goals though, he made that whole team work and when Warnock tried to replace him - Horsfield, Akinbiyi - things wobbled. It was the return of Shipperley in late February that sparked us back off again and gave us the push over the line.

Couldn't agree more. He was a real leader from the front. Kabba and Webber were the exciting pacey/ flair players but Shipps did that all important role of making the ball stick, occupying defenders and bringing others into play. Big, strong, intelligent footballer.

 

[coaxingstar71]

It would be a fantastic achievement if we finished anywhere near the play-offs this season. I've really no idea what to expect to be honest but I just think if we can consolidate and finish around mid-table, that would be very acceptable. It seems that there are accusations that if you don't think we'll be in the Champs League in 3 years then you're being negative but I'd honestly prefer us to consolidate and then maybe think about promotion. It will certainly be interesting to see what backing the board gives Wilder. I just hope we don't do what a lot of clubs seem to do, like what it looks like Barnsley might be doing, which is having got there with a good group of players, let the majority leave and then don't replace them with improvements. So far I'm confident that all the signings are either improvements or have been brought in to bolster in certain areas.

 

[Ron_Justice]

Don't underestimate the pressure on Wilder either; this is a massive season for him too. Proven in the non-league, 4th and now 3rd tier, this is his first attempt in the 2nd tier, it's a huge personal challenge for him; let alone the players and squad he's assembled. Our last two successful managers were hugely experienced at this level and knew how to get promotion(s). This is all new to CW and he won't want to be labelled a 'flat-track bully', only capable in the bottom two leagues. The next few months will be a steep learning curve for all but especially CW and how quickly he adapts will determine how successful we are. It's not all down to the managers but statistically proven managers tend to be more successful in the Championship. There are exceptions, and for what it's worth, imo CW will be one. UTB.

In no way is this a challenge to you, I'm genuinely interested in the idea of 'experienced at this level and knew how to get promotion' and the 'steap learning curve' that the Champ offers and how that differs from other leagues? To use CW's own words 'its two teams playing a game of football and giving it a good go'. What changes the higher or lower you go, that management can influence, assuming recruitment has been sufficient?

We've had managers with Championship experience fail to gain promotion from L1. We've just romped L1. Preparation, fitness, set pieces, players capable of consistent quality. All things you'd assume are the same regardless of the league you're in, so what is it that makes the challenges of one league different to another?

Genuine questions to all, not just N20.

 

[BushBlade]

In no way is this a challenge to you, I'm genuinely interested in the idea of 'experienced at this level and knew how to get promotion' and the 'steap learning curve' that the Champ offers and how that differs from other leagues? To use CW's own words 'its two teams playing a game of football and giving it a good go'. What changes the higher or lower you go, that management can influence, assuming recruitment has been sufficient?

We've had managers with Championship experience fail to gain promotion from L1. We've just romped L1. Preparation, fitness, set pieces, players capable of consistent quality. All things you'd assume are the same regardless of the league you're in, so what is it that makes the challenges of one league different to another?

Genuine questions to all, not just N20.

It seems that some managers are successful at a higher level whereas some are successful in the lower leagues but are unable to transfer that success to the leagues above.

I don't think anyone knows why and, like most things, I doubt it's due to a single factor but a combination of reasons. I'd suggest that some aren't tactically good enough, others aren't able to manage big egos and players who are so rich they don't care about being fined or disciplined.

In other cases I genuinely think it's a case of 'fuck knows'. How could Adkins win four promotions but look like an amateur at the Lane? It's just one of those things and I think you'd need a very deep and broad knowledge of the game that you can only really get by actually working it in, rather than just observing it, as we do, to even attempt to answer it.

And like you, I'd love to know.

 

[super_pig]

Wolves haven’t made the Prem since being in League 1.


It’s very difficult to predict what will happen. Wigan won League 1 at a canter. As did Wolves. As did Charlton. As did Bristol City. Donny also went up as champions. That’s all the League 1 champions since we’ve been there. 3 have found themselves back in League 1 (via League 2 in Donny’s case). Wolves and Bristol have spent a lot of money and were both very close to relegation last season.


Yeovil, MK, Rovrum have all been relegated since promotion in that time too.


On the flip side, since we’ve been in League 1, Bournemouth, Brentford, Huddersfield, pigs, Barnsley, Burton & Preston have all held their own with a couple getting to the promised land and none of those went up as League 1 champions.


It’s a funny old game but I can’t wait to see it start up again on Saturday regardless of what it might bring.

all the teams you mention booted their way out of league one as did the pigs.. if you go that way then there is a couple of seasons whilst you rebuild a team to play football.. however, like the aforementioned Norwich and Soton we played our way out so we just carry on as before.. i think we'll surprise a few including on here

 

[WalkelyFan]

Don't underestimate the pressure on Wilder either; this is a massive season for him too. Proven in the non-league, 4th and now 3rd tier, this is his first attempt in the 2nd tier, it's a huge personal challenge for him; let alone the players and squad he's assembled. Our last two successful managers were hugely experienced at this level and knew how to get promotion(s). This is all new to CW and he won't want to be labelled a 'flat-track bully', only capable in the bottom two leagues. The next few months will be a steep learning curve for all but especially CW and how quickly he adapts will determine how successful we are. It's not all down to the managers but statistically proven managers tend to be more successful in the Championship. There are exceptions, and for what it's worth, imo CW will be one. UTB.

What an excellent post. We forget the pressure on the manager and Knilly but they do seem relaxed as they go about their daily work, interviews and press conferences.

 

[Snowman]

I haven't a clue what to expect this season but the following things worry me.

The Defence,without midfield protection may have a problem. I have no fear for us going forward. Freeman (despite my criticism of his fitness) and Stevens will be fine. When we need to defend Lafferty will come in and be fine. I'm not sure about the mid three. Wright may not have had the experience but last year he was calm and a leader. He was the rock steady Eddy able to anticipate the through ball and read the play. If Stearman comes in it sort of upsets the "organisation". It may take some time to gel as he has not played in such a high tempo team.

In midfield, despite Pinchy wanting his babies, Coutts still worries me. He's good on the ball. He can drift out of the way and make space. Once again, going forward I have no complaints (apart from that I reckon he can shoot better than he thinks he can). It's when he can't or won't track back. I see a player with a football brain who buys himself time going forward, but that is no use when someone is screaming past you on a counterattack and you can't turn and track.

Up front. So much depends on the team support. We haven't got big fast lads who are going to hold and then turn centre backs. We haven't fast lads running off a centre backs shoulder. It's going to have to be put into the box behind the defence unless he plays the Hanson card. Generally we are not big enough and ugly enough.

What doesn't worry me? If it isn't working it will get changed for the better very quickly either in player or formation.

Will History repeat itself? No IMHO. Now prove me wrong!

 

[super_pig]

Stearman has a big act to follow

 

[1danewhitehouse]

It seems that some managers are successful at a higher level whereas some are successful in the lower leagues but are unable to transfer that success to the leagues above.

I don't think anyone knows why and, like most things, I doubt it's due to a single factor but a combination of reasons. I'd suggest that some aren't tactically good enough, others aren't able to manage big egos and players who are so rich they don't care about being fined or disciplined.

In other cases I genuinely think it's a case of 'fuck knows'. How could Adkins win four promotions but look like an amateur at the Lane? It's just one of those things and I think you'd need a very deep and broad knowledge of the game that you can only really get by actually working it in, rather than just observing it, as we do, to even attempt to answer it.

And like you, I'd love to know.

Sometimes I think it’s a case of personalities being a good fit for certain dressing rooms. Adkins for example seemed to suit Southampton and Scunny perfectly whereas Kieron Freeman called him a fucking dickhead and there never seemed any team spirit there. I think some are better at transferring it to different situations than others. I also think the management team having the right blend makes a big different. The charismatic, inspiring manager (Wilder) accompanied by the tactical nerd (Knill) seems to work great.

 

[N20 Blade]

In no way is this a challenge to you, I'm genuinely interested in the idea of 'experienced at this level and knew how to get promotion' and the 'steap learning curve' that the Champ offers and how that differs from other leagues? To use CW's own words 'its two teams playing a game of football and giving it a good go'. What changes the higher or lower you go, that management can influence, assuming recruitment has been sufficient?

We've had managers with Championship experience fail to gain promotion from L1. We've just romped L1. Preparation, fitness, set pieces, players capable of consistent quality. All things you'd assume are the same regardless of the league you're in, so what is it that makes the challenges of one league different to another?

Genuine questions to all, not just N20.

Rightly or wrongly, I associate success at this level with managers who have been through the experience before. I've seen United get promoted twice. The first time, Bassett mixed his experience from his Wimbledon days with something vital in all sport - momentum. The second time, Warnock got the pieces of the jigsaw together after one near miss and several false dawns but as he has proven before and since, despite being an insufferable human being, he is an excellent manager at this level (but no higher). For me 'experience' is a wildly generic term, so I take your point; but for me it includes all managerial tasks from signing the right players to match tactics to dealing with the press, etc. Like all professions, the higher you go, generally the harder it becomes, but some adjust quicker than others, many simply can't cope in the long run.

One seemingly innocuous example from Saturday; Wilder went berserk when Brentford broke away from our corner and nearly scored (Blackman save and crazy double miss). I found that interesting, he's got the challenge of continuing to play our natural game but combining this with greater ruthlessness and organisation. Will we be able to close games down and grind results out? I've no doubt CW knows what must be done but will the current players execute it? If they don't/can't then will he have the backing and ability to pick the replacements? This is just one trivial example but I've never seen him as angry as he was when this happened because his standards are high, higher arguably than 12 months ago because he has started the adjustment process. However, as stated initially I am confident despite not having the luxury of managing at this level before, he will complete the process.

This season is clearly going to be a huge challenge, so far so good, but this is still a work in progress, albeit one that requires fine tuning not major surgery. As said, momentum is key, if he can keep this progress going then maybe history will repeat itself. Two questions though, how many of United's starting 11 would you want/expect to be starting by the last game of the season? How many would Wilder? If his answer is 5-6 as opposed to 9-10 then we've definitely got the right man.