Wilder's refusal to use 5 subs

[Snake]

This thread is exactly the reason why I don't post too often on this forum. My mates won't touch it with a barge pole. It's bad enough losing in the manner we did then when you take a look at the forum to discuss the game, one of the biggest threads is this one. I know very little about the author of the o/p. I don't know whether he is a WUM, racist, homophobe or just genuinely believes that he knows better than Wilder.

What I do know is when these types of thread and all the back and forth bitching, wumming and general keyboard warrior stuff is allowed to dominate the board then it's a pile of shite that is best avoided.

 

[Ricky]

Which change yesterday would you have done as a double?

Freeman and Mousset probably, when Sharp came on.

And then whinged if it didn’t work?
Last 30 mins of a FA cup quarter final is not the time to ‘see if things can develop’ FFS

W we’re batterin em in the 2nd , why would we change, and arguably CW was right as the players on the pitch Drew us level.

Maybe if Hendo was as slow as McG he’d have been somewhere near his line for their winner instead of row D of JS

We were never battering them. Maybe it looked like that, in comparison to our other recent performances.

There was nothing to lose, and let's not pretend it was any usual FA Cup quarter final that we were desperate to win. Might as well have tried something different, for once.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Agree.

Don't see how we could convince Freeman and Osborn to stay. They can keep picking up their wage and go and play for someone else.

Mousset..... just don't see how he stays. He's continually overlooked. Must be a reason. It seems he's a player you might have to make allowances for as a manager. But at this stage we won't do that, and probably for the best. Too good to be true for us after all. He'll have to sign for someone who'll tolerate him, probably in France.

Osborn? He's playing exactly the role he signed up to play when he came in. I understand the point you are making with Freeman but I think you're over egging it pulling in Mousset and Osborn.

 

[TJB.]

Come on, let's go til 4am.... you know you want to.

 

[steve26272]

There was nothing to lose, and let's not pretend it was any usual FA Cup quarter final that we were desperate to win. Might as well have tried something different, for once.

Let the prince know, sell Shirecliffe, don’t need it like

Quarter final of FA cup is where you try things, and there I was thinking CW would have maybe tried stuff up there...

 

[Ricky]

Let the prince know, sell Shirecliffe, don’t need it like

Quarter final of FA cup is where you try things, and there I was thinking CW would have maybe tried stuff up there...

FFS. Any experimental aspect is obviously secondary. I thought it was worth a go as our best chance of getting back in the game.

What I do know is when these types of thread and all the back and forth bitching, wumming and general keyboard warrior stuff is allowed to dominate the board then it's a pile of shite that is best avoided.

Agree.

If there were any genuine WUMs on here people wouldn't be able to cope.

 

[Revolution]

I have played in and managed a lot of 11 a side parks football which allows for rolling subs.

I have had games where we’ve only had the bare 11, so you all play straight through. I’ve also had games where we’ve had 20 players and they all want minutes on the pitch.

Of course, this is light years away from professional football, but I would say my experience is:

1. The optimum number of subs to bring on is 3.

2. If you are taking off more than 3 starters, things can get away from you. You can lose your shape, the familiarity with who is around each player goes, and people are more likely to neglect their duties or things fall through cracks (eg who is marking who on set pieces).

Set against this background, not using 5 subs is defensible in my eyes.

 

[Ricky]

I have played in and managed a lot of 11 a side parks football which allows for rolling subs.

I have had games where we’ve only had the bare 11, so you all play straight through. I’ve also had games where we’ve had 20 players and they all want minutes on the pitch.

Of course, this is light years away from professional football, but I would say my experience is:

1. The optimum number of subs to bring on is 3.

2. If you are taking off more than 3 starters, things can get away from you. You can lose your shape, the familiarity with who is around each player goes, and people are more likely to neglect their duties or things fall through cracks (eg who is marking who on set pieces).

Set against this background, not using 5 subs is defensible in my eyes.

I get your point with this but our players train with each other every day and they should all know each other and the system well. I think at least 4 subs shouldn't be a problem, especially when the subs are up to standard, and in some cases previous starters.

 

[Carlton Blade]

Osborn? He's playing exactly the role he signed up to play when he came in. I understand the point you are making with Freeman but I think you're over egging it pulling in Mousset and Osborn.

Osborn hasn't got onto the pitch since lockdown. Stevens has been poor, not just by his standards but by any. It's a complete waste of resources to have not had him on the pitch at all.

 

[Davalon]

 

[Carlton Blade]

I have played in and managed a lot of 11 a side parks football which allows for rolling subs.

I have had games where we’ve only had the bare 11, so you all play straight through. I’ve also had games where we’ve had 20 players and they all want minutes on the pitch.

Of course, this is light years away from professional football, but I would say my experience is:

1. The optimum number of subs to bring on is 3.

2. If you are taking off more than 3 starters, things can get away from you. You can lose your shape, the familiarity with who is around each player goes, and people are more likely to neglect their duties or things fall through cracks (eg who is marking who on set pieces).

Set against this background, not using 5 subs is defensible in my eyes.

I'd agree with this under normal circumstances but these are weird times. We have played 4 games in 12 days but only used 16 players. And it's fair to say Zivcovic and both Freemans were only thrown on as after thoughts or for injuries.

That's just bad use of resources

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

This has all gone a tad 'Funny Little Nigel'-y.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Osborn hasn't got onto the pitch since lockdown. Stevens has been poor, not just by his standards but by any. It's a complete waste of resources to have not had him on the pitch at all.

Agreed 100%, but that wasn't my point. Do you believe that he'll be looking to leave in the summer?

 

[Carlton Blade]

Agreed, but do you agree with the comment that therefore he'll be looking to leave in the summer?

I can see why he would if the situation carries on like this. I have no idea what he signed up for but I'm sure he wasn't told "however much Stevens and Fleck struggle, you are only getting on the pitch if one of them gets injured"

Or maybe he was, would be a surprise though

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

I can see why he would if the situation carries on like this. I have no idea what he signed up for but I'm sure he wasn't told "however much Stevens and Fleck struggle, you are only getting on the pitch if one of them gets injured"

Or maybe he was, would be a surprise though

Then our opinions differ. I think it was very clear the position he was brought into play, and I'm sure he will be talking to the manager about deserving to start, but I can't see a how that would turn into him wanting to return to the Championship and reduce his contract terms in order to get game time. If playing is the main thing for him, and I have no problem with that, then that is what he would have to do. Personally I think he should bide his time, make the points that need making to the manager and he'll get his chance, but he was brought in as a utility player for us.

 

[Snake]

Agree.

If there were any genuine WUMs on here people wouldn't be able to cope.

I don't think you are a WUM btw, I think you genuinely believe in what you say. The problem is, many of your posts lead to bitchin, slagging off and general keyboard warrior stuff. That's what I can't do you see, I would quite happily join in with this discussion sat in a pub - all parties face to face, then if it descended into a general bitchfest it could be sorted out. However as that is not the case in the modern world, I choose to bite my lip (well, bite my typing fingers to be more exact) and keep my quite fragile at times mental health and anger management under control.

 

[Ricky]

If you don't give (decent) squad players a chance to play at least when the most obvious opportunities arrive, then you can give yourself unnecessary hard work in replacing them.

RB Leipzig seem to have had this in mind recently with 2 or 3 of their squad players, and it's working.

A bit of time on the pitch here might be the difference between keeping them another 6 months or more and having to replace them in a condensed summer window where we could do without additional activity.

Yes results are always the priority but I think we'd have had a better chance recently with more rotation/active substitutions anyway.

 

[Carlton Blade]

Then our opinions differ. I think it was very clear the position he was brought into play, and I'm sure he will be talking to the manager about deserving to start, but I can't see a how that would turn into him wanting to return to the Championship and reduce his contract terms in order to get game time. If playing is the main thing for him, and I have no problem with that, then that is what he would have to do. Personally I think he should bide his time, make the points that need making to the manager and he'll get his chance, but he was brought in as a utility player for us.

If he hasn't played in the last 4 games, similar for Freeman then it's hard to see them ever challenging the starters. Depends on mentality but that's a tough situation to be in

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

If he hasn't played in the last 4 games, similar for Freeman then it's hard to see them ever challenging the starters. Depends on mentality but that's a tough situation to be in

I think it's harsh on the pair, more so on Freeman as I think he would have had a fair reason to believe he was coming in for the Duffy role or with a decent chance of competing with Lunny and/or Fleck.
Osborn was brought in as a utility guy as cover, taken from an average Forest side for a nominal fee. I think his expectations of his role would have been set from the start.
I think he's deserved a run out, but I think he'll get game time if he stays, particularly next season when I think we'll have more rotation. If he's insistent that he want to play would mean a return to the Championship in my opinion and I believe he understood this when he signed and therefore while fairly asking the gaffer why he's not in the side he's quite content with his role. I just don't see him demanding a move from us, if he does then GLTTL and he'll be shown the door.

I just don't see many of our squad player demanding to leave as per Ricky's comment, particularly not Moose or Osborn.

 

[Carlton Blade]

I think it's harsh on the pair, more so on Freeman as I think he would have had a fair reason to believe he was coming in for the Duffy role or with a decent chance of competing with Lunny and/or Fleck.
Osborn was brought in as a utility guy as cover, taken from an average Forest side for a nominal fee. I think his expectations of his role would have been set from the start.
I think he's deserved a run out, but I think he'll get game time if he stays, particularly next season when I think we'll have more rotation. If he's insistent that he want to play would mean a return to the Championship in my opinion and I believe he understood this when he signed and therefore while fairly asking the gaffer why he's not in the side he's quite content with his role. I just don't see him demanding a move from us, if he does then GLTTL and he'll be shown the door.

I just don't see many of our squad player demanding to leave as per Ricky's comment, particularly not Moose or Osborn.

All fair points. My issue is more with the waste of resources in the last 4 games than anything in the future. Any guesses on what players want is just that, a guess

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

All fair points. My issue is more with the waste of resources in the last 4 games than anything in the future. Any guesses on what players want is just that, a guess

Although I've just re-read the paragraph and it's all over the place so congrats to you and LoughboroBlade for understanding it.
I really stop posting on here and instead listen to the morning service meetings.

 

[Carlton Blade]

Although I've just re-read the paragraph and it's all over the place so congrats to you and LoughboroBlade for understanding it.
I really stop posting on here and instead listen to the morning service meetings.

My first day off in 12 weeks today. I've been ignoring meetings that whole time so it feels weird to not have to

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

My first day off in 12 weeks today. I've been ignoring meetings that whole time so it feels weird to not have to

...and the weather has turned to shit. You enjoy your day off.

 

[wizadry]

Luke Freeman not getting game time in place of one of my favourite ever Blades player in Fleck is ridiculous all things considered, Fleck is clearly struggling and was certainly at risk of getting sent off yesterday with that twat of a referee.

How Stevens, another player I’ve loved seeing play is currently getting a game with how he’s been playing in the last 4 games is farcical, Osborn can feel very hard done to.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Luke Freeman not getting game time in place of one of my favourite ever Blades player in Fleck is ridiculous all things considered, Fleck is clearly struggling and was certainly at risk of getting sent off yesterday with that twat of a referee.

How Stevens, another player I’ve loved seeing play is currently getting a game with how he’s been playing in the last 4 games is farcical, Osborn can feel very hard done to.

It depends on how Wilder feels he can best manage the players into returning to form. For some players that’s taking them out of the limelight and having them sit out a few games – for others it’s rediscovering that form by getting gametime. I wasn’t surprised at all we didn’t also start L.Freeman and Osborn at Old Trafford given all the other changes enforced for that game.

We won’t really know whether this is the right approach for Wilder to take till we look back on it in a few weeks. The only glaring error I thought was to not start one of them in place of Fleck at Villa and instead put Lundstram there. I think both would have come on in extra time had that materialised yesterday.

 

[ShockingBadBuy]

Don't think we'll want to have 5 subs from tonight's bench

 

[DronnieBlade]

Only 7, thought we could have 9 ??

UTB

 

[Chabuddy G]

Don't think we'll want to have 5 subs from tonight's bench

On the subject of subs, why not just load the rest of the bench with young ens? Give them some experience and a morale boost in what must be a shitty and worrying time to be a younger/fringe player. No harm in putting the likes of Reece Norrington-Davies or David Parkhouse on the bench today

 

[ShockingBadBuy]

On the subject of subs, why not just load the rest of the bench with young ens? Give them some experience and a morale boost in what must be a shitty and worrying time to be a younger/fringe player. No harm in putting the likes of Reece Norrington-Davies or David Parkhouse on the bench today

No idea mate. Some odd looking things happening at the moment, on the face of it.

 

[Oldun]

On the subject of subs, why not just load the rest of the bench with young ens? Give them some experience and a morale boost in what must be a shitty and worrying time to be a younger/fringe player. No harm in putting the likes of Reece Norrington-Davies or David Parkhouse on the bench today

To make a point about lack of squad depth and the transfer budget presumably?