Wilders first Job

[Davalon]

I keep seeing Wilder will get more out of these players because he bawls them out and Hecky can't.

Modern players don't react to being screamed at like they once did for starters, but the assumption seems to be that too many aren't trying or are under-performing.

I liked Wilder's high standards and calling the team out through League 1 and the Champ, squeezing every last drop, but I always wondered what would happen when he no longer got a response and the players reached their absolute limit.

You could argue we saw in the second PL season. Some talk about his reaction after the Leicester game and that he lost the players a bit after that. Maybe, I don't know.

I just think the view that Wilder will walk in and suddenly motivate the players more to improve performances doesn't carry much merit to me looking at the players we have and their individual and collective ceilings.

 

[Mouth of the South]

For me he pays back his huge severance package that he manipulated the club into paying through months of petulance and briefing against the club in the press.

For this and many other reasons, I can't believe he's actually being considered for a return.

All his fanboys are already giddy but I, for one, would not want a return to his stubbornness (aka lack of Plan B) over team selection and formation (including a return to a flat 3 midfield), his incredibly limited knowledge/network for recruitment (and unwillingness to consider anyone from outside it) and his constant moaning / blaming others for his shortcomings.

He may be able to motivate the current players more than PH is currently able to do but that won't be anywhere near enough - he has no track record of saving clubs from relegation other than jumping ship (or rather forcing an owner's hand) when the going got tough. If the club are seriously considering making a change, I hope more creative options would be considered - I wonder what it would take to get McKenna out of Ipswich or even entice Clarke from the Scotland job (feel free to shoot down those ideas!).

 

[Mouth of the South]

.

 

[Mouth of the South]

The Prince told Wilder that his job was safe even if we got relegated. In football if you get sacked then you get paid the remainder of your contract in compensation, so it would seem, so if his job was safe then why would the Prince then sack him? If Wilder resigned then he would get nothing. It was reported that he wasn't sacked but left under mutual agreement. To me that would suggest some compensation but not the full payment of his remaining contract. Given that the Prince closed the purse strings in January accepting that we were already down and planning our finances for the seasons ahead, it would seem odd and contradictory that the Prince would then pay out all of the money to sack a manager he wanted to keep whilst trying to save money.

Wilder's compensation arrangement when he left the club will have been dependent on the terms in his contract and method of exit than being just because he works in the football industry.

Any CEO worth their salt would ensure that a manager's contract includes a termination clause limiting any payout due (quite often amounting to 12 months' salary).

You may be confusing when an employee (player or manager) leaves for another employer - quite often the new employer will have an obligation to 'pay-up' the current contract.

 

[GrayBlade]

He fell out with the owner and left.
He didn't steal a statue, burn down the kop and shit on the pitch.

Ahhh, so that must have been King Kev's handiwork then?

 

[Bladesince59]

I keep seeing Wilder will get more out of these players because he bawls them out and Hecky can't.

Modern players don't react to being screamed at like they once did for starters, but the assumption seems to be that too many aren't trying or are under-performing.

I liked Wilder's high standards and calling the team out through League 1 and the Champ, squeezing every last drop, but I always wondered what would happen when he no longer got a response and the players reached their absolute limit.

You could argue we saw in the second PL season. Some talk about his reaction after the Leicester game and that he lost the players a bit after that. Maybe, I don't know.

I just think the view that Wilder will walk in and suddenly motivate the players more to improve performances doesn't carry much merit to me looking at the players we have and their individual and collective ceilings.

They aren't under-performing, they're League 1 standard footballers by and large stealing PL wages.

 

[1987]

I keep seeing Wilder will get more out of these players because he bawls them out and Hecky can't.

Modern players don't react to being screamed at like they once did for starters, but the assumption seems to be that too many aren't trying or are under-performing.

I liked Wilder's high standards and calling the team out through League 1 and the Champ, squeezing every last drop, but I always wondered what would happen when he no longer got a response and the players reached their absolute limit.

You could argue we saw in the second PL season. Some talk about his reaction after the Leicester game and that he lost the players a bit after that. Maybe, I don't know.

I just think the view that Wilder will walk in and suddenly motivate the players more to improve performances doesn't carry much merit to me looking at the players we have and their individual and collective ceilings.

I think the players don't have a fear factor of the management, in terms of performance. It's all a happy lovely place to work, but that breeds comfort, which is great when it brings out the best in the players. But it isn't so maybe a little needle and greater expectation will eke out more from them. Then need to "die for the points" as t'old Neil would say.

I listen to Hecky and all I really hear is that we basically won't ever get owt from these games, and if everything had gone our way we'd have a couple more points. The data will tell him what he already knows, that's kind of how it goes in his interviews. I can't help but feel if I was sent out to play in this setup I'd have a feeling that losing the game is totally fine, because it was expected.

Ability is one thing, but these teams are out working and out competing us too IMO. And it could boil down to belief, and that is something in the managers control.

 

[PageHallBlade]

cant be arsed to read this thread but for me Wilder is non starter
I hear people moaning that Hecky hasn't a plan B, Wilder didn't.

apparently Wilder can motivate the players well he didn't motivate them when we at the bottom of the league last time

Hecky has bought poor players, the list is too long of Wilders picks that were awful or overpriced

also the petulant/bizarre rants in the pressers "I'm not bovvered about psychology leftie stuff"

and the fact he got his mate Gids to ask him questions about his contract situation while we were looking at relegation also he's always looking for the next thing ( see Burnley/Boro debacle) the stupid " yer don't have to ask mi".

and there's the front door/back door comment.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I expressed disappointment over the club statement about finances “next season” believing the owner had already thrown the towel in. If so, is it a surprise that this could have percolated down to the players? Hecky doesn’t give any hope of improvement other than results against similar quality sides. Hardly something to hang your dreams on. His interviews just say to me he’s simply treading water.

Any new manager inherits exactly the same issues, ownership and management with no ambition beyond more parachute payments and a squad lacking both quality but more importantly leadership.

 

[Tool McGool]

apologies if this has already been addressed, but for the people who despise Wilder for "walking out the back door with £4m in his pocket", is it not true that he offered his resignation more than once that season and Prince A had to talk him out of it? if he was prepared to resign then he was prepared to leave without severance surely?
I'm not convinced him coming back would turn anything around and I think long term we need a new direction but something has to change and I wouldn't be against giving him a go at least til the end of the season. appreciate this may not be the concensus.

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

Loses ten games in a row. Gets sacked.

If you think management’s the problem with this side, you’re in for a shock.

I think some people will be shocked but not those you allude to. I believe any new manager that can instil some fight, defensive structure, some fresh ideas will get a better tune out of this squad. It will also get a better tune out of the atmosphere at the lane.

I’m not buying this ‘no manager in the world would improve us’ - that’s utter shite (in my opinion).

 

[Nick Jansky]

They aren't under-performing, they're League 1 standard footballers by and large stealing PL wages.

They aren’t stealing anything. Every one of them was approached by the club to come here and given a contract in good faith.

 

[Klaatu Barada Nikto]

They aren't under-performing, they're League 1 standard footballers by and large stealing PL wages.

Which makes last seasons achievement by Heckingbottom and the playing team all the more extraordinary.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Which makes last seasons achievement by Heckingbottom and the playing team all the more extraordinary.

Luck. The Prince was lucky……

 

[Torrix1889]

Which makes last seasons achievement by Heckingbottom and the playing team all the more extraordinary.

In what was the weakest Championship for years.....

 

[1987]

Luck. The Prince was lucky……

Seems it doesn't he. Did he basically gamble the future of the club?

In what was the weakest Championship for years.....

With one of the best players to play in it for years.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Seems it doesn't he. Did he basically gamble the future of the club?

With one of the best players to play in it for years.

Gambled the future?

 

[bikerblade]

I'm not clamouring for Wilder to come back - mainly for the way he left and what he's done since.
However some observations (probably a load of crap);
Wilder alledgedly didn't want many foreign signings due to culture of English footy - we've had the most I can ever remember this summer
Wilder would berate players publicly which would sometimes see a positive reaction - Henderson for example - might not work for all
Wilder knew what style he wanted to play - even though it could be poor - what style do we now play? I think Luton have a style - what's ours?

I really think we were promoted last year due to the exceptional talent of Ndiaye and then McAtee being too much combined for the Championship - but i still can't remember being comfortable with style of play.

I'm not sure Wilder is the answer and I really appreciate the job that Heckingbottam has done but we are in an awful malaise and I can't see Heckingbottom getting us out of it.

Harry Haslam is my suggestion.

 

[blade too long]

sweeping kop steps

 

[originaltrueblade]

When the going gets tough the tough get going…Not Wilder because when the going got tough he vanished

 

[blade too long]

Hes probably the only manager that would actually take the job with this fucking shower!

yes because no manager wants to manage in the prem with only 84 points to play for and 14 games against bottom half teams left and can get fresh in in january , doesnt need to cost much either

 

[JayGreen17]

theres no sign of him coming as it stands, what happened to Hecky getting the sack…. He needs to go now!

 

[BigBed]

yes because no manager wants to manage in the prem with only 84 points to play for and 14 games against bottom half teams left and can get fresh in in january , doesnt need to cost much either

We need 11 players in jan, do you really believe we will have a budget for even a 3rd of that with any kind of quality, that could make the difference!?
Like fuck. Wilder is on a shortlist of 3, so we might end up with another Slav or similar, then we can really have a moan fest!

 

[1987]

Gambled the future?

Was a genuine question mate. With the state were clearly in, I imagine it would have looked very, very dire had we not gone up.

 

[blade too long]

We need 11 players in jan, do you really believe we will have a budget for even a 3rd of that with any kind of quality, that could make the difference!?
Like fuck. Wilder is on a shortlist of 3, so we might end up with another Slav or similar, then we can really have a moan fest!

what budget , loans and frees so long as they have experience
we just cant compete now as the bodies we have are crocked if 3 or 4 return to fitness we could get away with 5 or 6

we started with 5 new in august but have had a steady flow of losing players Egan out for season Basham fecked for good , we aint had much luck

 

[BigBed]

what budget , loans and frees so long as they have experience
we just cant compete now as the bodies we have are crocked if 3 or 4 return to fitness we could get away with 5 or 6

we started with 5 new in august but have had a steady flow of losing players Egan out for season Basham fecked for good , we aint had much luck

Nevermind luck, you can't rely on luck, we simply don't have players capable of premier league football, we need 11, nevermind who comes back, there are huge voids allover the pitch. Frees and loans won't solve anything, we need a miracle, any players available on a free now, are not good enough, or they'd be playing!, we can only get foreign loans too, and they won't have experience or be good enough, just look whats been brought in already.

There has to be a reason for so many injuries, Wilder never had this, no other club seems to have this!??
Also need to sack the defence coach, since he arrived weve been pathetic.

 

[blade too long]

Nevermind luck, you can't rely on luck, we simply don't have players capable of premier league football, we need 11, nevermind who comes back, there are huge voids allover the pitch. Frees and loans won't solve anything, we need a miracle, any players available on a free now, are not good enough, or they'd be playing!, we can only get foreign loans too, and they won't have experience or be good enough, just look whats been brought in already.

There has to be a reason for so many injuries, Wilder never had this, no other club seems to have this!??
Also need to sack the defence coach, since he arrived weve been pathetic.

I meant luck with injuries , weve been decimated we needed 25 fit players to stay up weve around 15 to choose from
there is no reason other than bad luck with injuries as shown with bashams and egans

 

[BigBed]

I meant luck with injuries , weve been decimated we needed 25 fit players to stay up weve around 15 to choose from
there is no reason other than bad luck with injuries as shown with bashams and egans

So, you believe we have the worst injury record we've ever had, because of bad luck??
Then why have the club, ordered an investigation into the problem??, afterall, if its only bad luck, why waste money we dont have??
Also, having 15 players to choose from, still doesn't mean they're good enough for the prem, and offer nowhere near, anything that's needed to stay in the prem.
You need to take off the rose tinted specks, and look at everything that's happening, the players are done, their heads are down, and there's nothing to grasp to.
The manager can do nothing to change it.
We made a huge error not giving Billy a 12mnth deal and casting him aside, he brought more to the team than just 10mins as a sub!
The captains armband is with the WRONG player, Baldock or Mcburnie would be much better options.
Our coaching staff are not good enough for this league.
Our owner doesn't care about the club, dont care what he says, hes thrown Hecky to the wolves this season.
Our scouting and recruitment is absolutely dire, its almost embarrassing how bad it is.
Theres no money.
We will struggle to attract anyone of any use.
We should be using the youth now, get them some game time, weve got nothing to lose, and we will definitely need them next season, probably this one as there will be more injuries.

 

[Jacobsenthecrab]

I love how how people keep saying he took 4m without a shred of evidence he did. Do people genuinely think the club paid him 4m? Surely you can’t hide a payment that size in the accounts?

He asked for around £4m (a years wages) but didn’t get that amount as the Prince said in his interview at the time.

He didn't ask for a payout. It would have all been contracted ffs if it even happened

The prince went on record to say he asked for nearly a years wages which was around £4m.
I know for a fact everything he said was gone through by the clubs lawyers and evidenced with meeting minutes and so on in readiness for litigation had Wilder said otherwise.
Wilder tried to damage the club and the fans relationship with it to get what he wanted so the Prince had to get the facts out there.
As has already been said even if there was an NDA in place it doesn’t allow for the signee to be libelled so if the Princes interview wasn’t correct CW was free to speak out.
He didn’t because he would likely have lost the payout he got through court action.
Football is a strange industry in that if someone doesn’t want to stick around and causes trouble it’s often easier to pay them off than sack them.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

He asked for around £4m (a years wages) but didn’t get that amount as the Prince said in his interview at the time.

The prince went on record to say he asked for nearly a years wages which was around £4m.
I know for a fact everything he said was gone through by the clubs lawyers and evidenced with meeting minutes and so on in readiness for litigation had Wilder said otherwise.
Wilder tried to damage the club and the fans relationship with it to get what he wanted so the Prince had to get the facts out there.
As has already been said even if there was an NDA in place it doesn’t allow for the signee to be libelled so if the Princes interview wasn’t correct CW was free to speak out.
He didn’t because he would likely have lost the payout he got through court action.
Football is a strange industry in that if someone doesn’t want to stick around and causes trouble it’s often easier to pay them off than sack them.

So the Prince gave him 4 million to get rid? Or it was pre agreed in a contract...

There's no way the club would just hand over 4 million if it didn't need to. I don't understand how people think the Prince/club were held hostage by Wilder here. It's a business. It would all be iron clad stuff.