Wilder not 'appeh......

[sitwell]

Even if we accept the premise that they aren't, their role is already filled quite capably by a recognised body.
Which begs the question, why do they exist at all if not to personally profit from any issue that may arise between the player and the club? Whether they're bent or not, they're still parasitic by their very nature.

How do we know that there wasn't something in the offer from Utd which wasn't screwing the player over ? It would take an agent to negotiate round this ,the player couldn't possibly do it, not with the bonus culture ,image rights ,tax breaks ,investments ,fees for this fees for that ,contracts are complicated these days.

 

[Chali 2na]

Even if we accept the premise that they aren't, their role is already filled quite capably by a recognised body.
Which begs the question, why do they exist at all if not to personally profit from any issue that may arise between the player and the club? Whether they're bent or not, they're still parasitic by their very nature.

They are not parasitic, they are symbiotic. Agents serve players and often clubs too.

I get what you're saying about the PFA agents being provided, but you're being way to simplistic.

Why would I choose a PFA provided representative if my own choice of agent could get me a better deal?

 

[Tyler Durden]

How do we know that there wasn't something in the offer from Utd which wasn't screwing the player over ? It would take an agent to negotiate round this ,the player couldn't possibly do it, not with the bonus culture ,image rights ,tax breaks ,investments ,fees for this fees for that ,contracts are complicated these days.

As I've pointed out above. The PFA does all of the above. It's literally their job.

 

[DronnieBlade]

So are we to take from this interview that we wanted 5 in ?

Got 2, missed 3 ?

The 3 being Cole, Sinclair, Quina ??

Did I miss summat ???

UTB

 

[beatific blade]

As you say, you won't change your opinion. It's easier to make sweeping statements based on nothing. Best leave it there.

I thought you were talking to a Brexit frother when I read that

 

[Yoonited]

There's moaning and then there's malicious, agenda-fuelled, carefully rehearsed, vitriolic nonsense. We invariably get the latter. Self-styled Blades who are nothing of the kind, taking every opportunity to undermine the club they risibly claim to support, at a time when there is so much to enjoy.

NBWs.

I seriously wonder whether the bile spillage on here is driven in addition to a lack of intelligence,by mardy arses who have wendy colleagues that they need to continually big up to so that they have ammunition to further the "We're a bigger Club than you" argument.

For once we have men of principle and integrity who see through the bullshit that plagues football. It's a microcosm of a capitalist society that is utterly obsessed with money and power. Just like some of the pillocks who come on here with poorly thought out opinions that lack any shred of evidence and puff their chest out because they buy into the bollox spouted on the likes of Sky Sport and all those other media machines who simply want your money,but dress it up in a way that you might be too stupid or naive to see through.

Our management team got us where we are in a short period of time without blowing our budget,in a fashion no one could have imagined, and did so through shrewd business planning and all manner of insight, intelligent thought and experience built on success.

I imagine others in the game have more respect for those guys than the likes of souless and corruptable others such as Big Sam and Arry. Bung central that feeds agents and round and round it goes.I think it counts for plenty.

I had a chance meeting with our Chris and he left me under no illusions as to how strong and driven a character he is.You need to meet him to understand what I mean. Aura does not do it justice.

I wonder how some of our"supporters" would fare given the multitude of circumstances to deal with,along with limited facts,in a largely clandestine industry.Why would you even attempt to appear to know better?

So to those "Billy big bollox,when you have your argument,sorry unfounded opinion ready to spout,imagine you are facing Chris, Alan and our investors with it. How long could you last before getting ejected to the sound of laughter at the incredible naivety you exhibit.?It beggars belief.Not to mention disloyalty.

I am not in a position to afford a Season ticket and it wrankles to miss out on the magical journey that is currently unfolding within our club. Particularly as I am close enough to hear the atmos and cheers that make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. If you don't feel those sensations then perhaps you don't know what joy is and perhaps ought to go shopping with the missus or some other misery filled past-time like a trip to the Sty with your deluded Wendy mates.

Tell you what,if it applies,I will gladly use your ticket and bring my passion to the Lane to encourage whoever Chris and Alan think fit to wear the shirt,such is my faith in them. That faith based on their record so far !!!

Ask yourselves, What did you achieve? No thought not.

Look up the word Supporter in a dictionary and interpretations such as, 'strengthen', 'encourage' and 'speak in favour of' appear. Not one mention of 'criticise' or 'moan', which incidently suggests mental suffering. How ironic that may well be.

I will leave those of you with mental suffering a final thought that may be helpful.

"Whether you think you can, or whether you think you can't,you are right."

I know which side of the fence I stand,more importantly so do our Leaders.
Thank phook for that.UTB.
Don't forget to let me know if you want to give it a miss on a Saturday. Cheers

 

[Tyler Durden]

They are not parasitic, they are symbiotic. Agents serve players and often clubs too.

I get what you're saying about the PFA agents being provided, but you're being way to simplistic.

Why would I choose a PFA provided representative if my own choice of agent could get me a better deal?

By the same token, why should a club accept what basically boils down to legalised extortion? Agents also recieve fees directly from the club whilst working against their interests. Hence the (justified) uproar over how many millions are being paid to them each season.

 

[Chali 2na]

Such as?
And are those actions in the vast majority of cases?

Or are they:

1. Likely to turn players heads?
2. Look after themselves and searching for the best signing on fee?
3. Getting paid a lot for a role that basically isn't needed?
4. Replacable and improved upon by situations like James Milners'? http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...-alternative-to-exorbitant-agents-317168.html

Believe it or not, some agents have a personal relationship with their client, so make suggestions and recommendations that are in the players best interests. The instinct of young, impressionable, wealthy men is often curbed favorably by an agent.

As for your question about the "majority of cases" - you must surely realise this is a stupid question? How could either one of us possibly answer that?

As for your list: they are the all the bad characteristics associated with bad agents. I have no doubt that some agents are bent - I'm simply saying that not all of them are, and some are the opposite.

In the link you provided infact, McGuire even admits that "some do a good job" - which is my whole argument.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

We've gone for players with offers that have been rejected by their clubs because they were not sufficient to tempt them to sell

These deals wouldn't have even got as far as the players agent having to do anything because they were rejected out of hand.

So does the agent only get involved at the later stages then? That's not my understanding.

 

[sitwell]

By the same token, why should a club accept what basically boils down to legalised extortion? Agents also recieve fees directly from the club whilst working against their interests. Hence the (justified) uproar over how many millions are being paid to them each season.

Will that be with the money the clubs have 'legally extorted' from the fans ,advertisers ,TV companies etc. The players are what makes the game work ,and don't be fooled into thinking the clubs operate in their interests ,they will screw every penny they can out of a deal ,and so they should. It needs an agent to see through this , negotiators are used in all aspects of life and football agents are an easy excuse when things don't go your way. We would all use one if we were in that position. Not to say there aren't some poor/bent ones ,but again that is life in general and they can be found in any profession.

The final decision will always remain with the player ,don't forget that ,the agent can only advise and help ,but in the end he is being employed by the player.

 

[Chali 2na]

By the same token, why should a club accept what basically boils down to legalised extortion? Agents also recieve fees directly from the club whilst working against their interests. Hence the (justified) uproar over how many millions are being paid to them each season.

It isn't "legalised extortion" because nobody's hand is forced, none of the deals work (either way) without the consent of all parties. Why should a player not have a choice when deciding who represents them?

The amount of money the agents extract from the game is a little worrying, and when I hear that nearly half of the Pogba transfer fees were absorbed by agents my reaction is like yours.
I would remind you though that Raiola (Pogba's agent) isn't a bank robber. Man Utd paid those fees to sign a player, and did so at their own free will.

I'd like to remind you that my argument isn't: "all agents are good" it's "not all agents are bad" and there's a very big distinction.

 

[Davalon]

Agents were allowed to enter the fray partly due to clubs holding too much power over a player's career.

Clubs also use agents for their own ends.

Like any industry with obscene money floating around, you will inevitably get unscrupulous parasites. Doesn't mean every single one is like that. Remember the player employs the agent in the first instance ultimately.

 

[South Bucks]

We've gone for players with offers that have been rejected by their clubs because they were not sufficient to tempt them to sell

These deals wouldn't have even got as far as the players agent having to do anything because they were rejected out of hand.

The Star article on Quina suggests this is the case. The club loaning out a player can set a big fee if they chose and who pays what wages and if the two clubs can't agree on the fee or wages then it doesn't go as far as agents.
Quantity over quality as usual, I'd swap 3 or 4 of those new squad players for a decent starting striker with pace. Goals win games not players sat on the bench. This window was the clubs chance to decide if it wants to be top half of the division or on the edge of the relegation battle and being weak up front with and too few midfielders who can chip in with goals I suspect its an opportunity missed imo.

 

[wizadry]

Some agents haven't had experience of law or anything of the sort, some are simply ex footballers trying to make more money after their playing careers have ended and most of these players are to the lower end of the league spectrum that will have never dealt with a big transfer ever. That's my experience and I can't believe so many people are sticking up for the agents.

I suppose you can't blame them if they can get away with it, there's some right mugs around.

 

[The Crab]

Think it is Roberto de Fanti who caused problems at Sunderland and Leyton Orient, I think (only did a quick google search)

Why do rich people always seem to have shit hair?

 

[The Crab]

no thats not a wig

It'd better fuck off then, Elmer Fudd will be along with his gun in a minute.

 

[The Crab]

Some agents haven't had experience of law or anything of the sort, some are simply ex footballers trying to make more money after their playing careers have ended and most of these players are to the lower end of the league spectrum that will have never dealt with a big transfer ever. That's my experience and I can't believe so many people are sticking up for the agents.

I suppose you can't blame them if they can get away with it, there's some right mugs around.

I'm sure I read that the "Secret Footballer" is or has acted as an agent.

 

[Sheffsteel]

All we can do is speculate what happened.

Sinclair would have got regular football, you would have thought, so maybe that one was holding out for a higher salary, (remember Norwich were supposed to have been in for him and maybe offered more) rather than a guarantee of first team football.

Don't think salary was the issue, Sinclair already has a great salary at Watford and our contribution towards his wages was fine with Watford.

I understand that it was related to "agents fees".

It's a bit like paying £10 at the box office to get into a Night Club, then when you show your tickets to the bouncer he demands a further £2. You ask him why and he says the Night club doesn't pay him any wages, so he charges a bouncers fee. Would you pay it?

 

[wizadry]

Why do rich people always seem to have shit hair?

I'm skint and have hardly any hair so this theory is 100% correct.

 

[The Crab]

I'm skint and have hardly any hair so this theory is 100% correct.

Me too!

 

[Lard_Lad]

I'd suggest that Baldock and Stevens might be first team players, the rest no more than squad fillers
Everything we shouldn't have done we have done

Fuck off with all this negative shit, I'm not Wilder would agree with your comments, so Stearman starting until he got injured, Blackman currently starting, Donaldson got a good chance of starting against Sunderland.

It was highly unlikely Coutts or Fleck would have been replaced so Lundstram obviously brought in as cover.

Plenty of our players are good enough for the championship and didn't need replacing desperately. What did you want us to do bring in a whole new fucking 11, cause that always works.

 

[The Crab]

I wasn't. I was complaining about the self-interested meddling of a party that holds no real value.

Let's assume the players received independent and non-profitable (or low fee) advice from the PFA and could make up their own minds,

That would be what would happen in an ideal world 100%

I'm afraid, it's also as likely to happen as me seeing my hair come back, and being 10 stone again.

 

[Tyler Durden]

Some agents haven't had experience of law or anything of the sort, some are simply ex footballers trying to make more money after their playing careers have ended and most of these players are to the lower end of the league spectrum that will have never dealt with a big transfer ever. That's my experience and I can't believe so many people are sticking up for the agents.

I suppose you can't blame them if they can get away with it, there's some right mugs around.

Exactly. Their "profession" is unregulated amd their practices go largely unchecked. They are of zero benefit to the game.

 

[marsh blade]

With agents apparently - in his interview said that we couldnt have done any more and that certain people alluded to agents were playing games that stopped us getting in another 3 players .

The game is bent when agents effectively decide who moves and who doesnt!!

But don't they the agent get paid if his player moves ? Seems very strange excuse .

 

[sitwell]

Some agents haven't had experience of law or anything of the sort, some are simply ex footballers trying to make more money after their playing careers have ended and most of these players are to the lower end of the league spectrum that will have never dealt with a big transfer ever. That's my experience and I can't believe so many people are sticking up for the agents.

I suppose you can't blame them if they can get away with it, there's some right mugs around.

Better the experience of an ex player who knows what goes on in the game than a lawyer who only sees legislation and balance sheets. It's a natural career for an ex pro. I would employ one if I was in their position.

 

[Harrisblade]

The Star article on Quina suggests this is the case. The club loaning out a player can set a big fee if they chose and who pays what wages and if the two clubs can't agree on the fee or wages then it doesn't go as far as agents.

Actually, the one I read says nothing of the sort
(but don't worry about it!)

From The Star

"Chris Wilder has previously stated that he will not process any agreement which guarantees a player first team football at Bramall Lane."

Read more at: http://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/foot...heffield-united-quina-switch-stalls-1-8731922

 

[wizadry]

Better the experience of an ex player who knows what goes on in the game than a lawyer who only sees legislation and balance sheets. It's a natural career for an ex pro. I would employ one if I was in their position.

Keep all the dodgy shit in house? That's one way to look at it.

 

[Grizzly blade]

So what's the answer?
Some clubs already opt to turn away from a deal rather than deal with some agents. We may be one of those clubs. But where does it get you as things stand? I would suggest it means that a whole load of players become unavailable!
So the options are to carry on and deal as we are. Downside being transfers are much much harder, and especially as the ready made players might have big name agents, these being the type of player you need the higher you go up the pyramid.
Or.
Stump up and get in with it! Costs and culture out the window. And it's the culture that's the worry, as you only have to look down the road at what can happen when a team of players who are looking for money over football get together. Pigs lost their way the minute they started paying big money. The club would lose its current ethos, vibe, feeling.

I don't know the answer, as the way things stand it's a lose-lose scenario! It's which one is the best of the bad options! Like asking which is better from 10 lashes with the cane, or ten lashes from the ruler!


Like most things in this game, there is a cancer called money ruining the whole thing. And until some regulation comes in at the top, with some integrity and honesty injected with it, it won't filter down to the clubs, players and agents.
It would be easy to have a ban on independent self employed agents. The agents become trained and registered and then paid by the PFA. After all, they are the union for players. Each agent is salaried based on their ability/experience, and any player wishing to utilise an agent hires one at a rate they can afford. If they are happy at a club, and simply want a new deal with maybe a pay rise then is there really a need for an agent?
I assume there is a PFA or equivalent in every country....if not there should be so that the policy could be worldwide.


As for clubs taking advantage.....I don't see agents lining up to negotiate wagesand protect the rights for the workers in factories or wherever. Governments, companies, multinationals have been taking advantage forever and continue to do so. So that indicates to me that it's nothing to do with acting in the interests of the player....it's money. Pure and simple.
These clubs might just be trying to save money, but that to be honest should be the idea considering they are all losing millions a year! So I fail to see how clubs "take advantage" of pro players these days if they are trying to sign a player as cheaply as possible.
Maybe a wage cap would help? Extend it worldwide and we would see who exactly is really bothered about playing for certain sides! Sod the players, if they don't like it go find another job, because there aren't many jobs out there where you can play a sport full time, get paid the wages they do and receive the privilege that comes with being a pro footballer....certainly in I would say the top three divisions nowadays, and usually have zero qualifications or much about you to get it.
The academics of this world who save lives, train for years, take on mountains of debt to get there, give up years of their home life to concentrate on tough but well paid careers, all for an annual salary less than a weeks wage to many in the premier league! Even those in league one, with salaries of 200k a year......it's obscene.

Football is ruined.

 

[Liverpool blade]

Actually, the one I read says nothing of the sort
(but don't worry about it!)

From The Star

"Chris Wilder has previously stated that he will not process any agreement which guarantees a player first team football at Bramall Lane."

Read more at: http://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/foot...heffield-united-quina-switch-stalls-1-8731922

Spot on. The players seem to think that they're guaranteed first team football every week wherever they go and that's partly due to the agents telling them this!!. The Ross Barkley saga at Everton sums it up!!!. A fee is agreed with Chelsea and he's halfway through a medical when he changes his mind and decides against the move!!. He's currently out injured and won't play until January!. He's already stated that he won't sign a new contract and becomes a free agent at the end of the season. There's going to be a few managers feeling the same way as wilder this morning!!. Wilder has got the right approach and it's certainly paid off!!. I M H O. In wilder we trust. Can't wait to get behind the lads at Sunderland.

 

[Slim Man]

Excuse for what? Not paying unrealistic asking prices that no other club was willing to pay either?

Have you never heard Kev and co bemoan agents before?
You don't often hear other clubs moan about agents (as much as they are scum of the earth) because its part and parcel of the game