Whiteman returns

[Harrisblade]

So spending millions is a 'no-risk' strategy - apart from the millions spent not achieving promotion.
Any other bright ideas?

 

[Sean Thornton]

McCabe has pumped money into the club before to various managers but to no avail. If he does it again, why is it bound to work this time?

 

[metalblade]

Preston, one of our rivals, have signed two players this week.

I suspect if we had brought in players from Motherwell and Bristol R you would be underwhelmed and still say CW wasn't being backed.

 

[DifferentClass]

We only need a Brownman now.

 

[Tunstall Fred]

McCabe has pumped money into the club before to various managers but to no avail. If he does it again, why is it bound to work this time?

Especially to a manager who is not up to the challenge,that would be like Bryan Robson MK 2 all over again wouldn't it?

 

[Booker4]

Yes it's unrealistic. I asked you where the money would come from and you couldn't answer other than saying McCabe should pay it. We know this isn't going to happen and therefore it's unrealistic. What others have spent doesn't make a jot of difference and the fact that many of those who have spent a lot more than £3m-5m are struggling shows you should be cautious when spending money you don't have.

Regardless of whether Wilder wants more than 1 permanent and 3 loans (he could have asked for that, you've no idea) it doesn't mean that he doesn't feel as if he's being backed.

My main point is that you don't know the details behind anything you are claiming and yet you've immediately taken the most negative stance possible. Wilder isn't being backed because were aren't spending millions! "What if he hasn't asked for millions?". Well other teams are spending millions!

Hasn't Wilder said before that he won't be spending big sums? Does that sound like the sort of person who expects us to chuck millions (that we don't have) at a January transfer window? Other than Leonard (so far) which players has Wilder wanted that the board haven't managed to get because they won't back him?

Going round in circles debating this mate. I've explained my rationale ,which is largly compared toi what I believe is needed to get up. Other than Blackpool, teams have needed significant money to go up and as I keep saying I'm not saying we need to spend like Derby have.

I conclude my views based on what I see our player expenditure on fees and wages to be. Its around 3million on this team as a journalist stated v Derby when he compared the team sheets. If we want to go back up towards the top 2 or maintain a play off push we surely need greater backing then is mentioned re scrambling around to sign Leonard and three potential loans - subject to whether the respective clubs allow those players out and if they choose us. Or we can give Wilder a much higher chance and say get that player who is exceeding for Southend, who we needed this summer, not now., He's from Southend not even a fellow Championship team and out of contract in the summer, and asked for a transfer in the last summer, so obviously wanted to leave having rejected a new contract and yet we still can't get this over the line!

 

[Tunstall Fred]

I suspect if we had brought in players from Motherwell and Bristol R you would be underwhelmed and still say CW wasn't being backed.

You have worked out Len de Goey as well,read him like a book can't you?

 

[Booker4]

You argue your corner well and generally avoid the lunacy and near-defamation of those serving an agenda. I share your aspirations and some of your sentiments in fact, but what is the solution if our begging the owners to spend proves to be in vain?

I’m quite sure Kev and HRH would be more than receptive to additional investors provided (and this is crucial) they have the best interests of our club at heart. Why wouldn’t they? Their only hope of ‘recouping investment’ let alone making any dosh, is to take the tarnished yellow brick road to the Premiership where “Oz” Murdoch distributes the lucre.

Cheers Pinchy, I've no doubt McCabe and the Prince are good owners and have the clubs interests at heart. I've said what I want to say, its hurting my fingers now explaining anymore!

 

[Sean Thornton]

Cheers Pinchy, I've no doubt McCabe and the Prince are good owners and have the clubs interests at heart. I've said what I want to say, its hurting my fingers now explaining anymore!

What if the money's not there?

 

[itsinyerblood]

If Whiteman does manage to make a positive impression, stick him next to Blackman in the dressing room. Very soon we'll have Chris talking a hybrid of politically correct harmony that should, once and for all, exorcise all remaining traces of tired and lame racist humour.

 

[Booker4]

What if the money's not there?

It should be Sean, and if its not then I'm sorry but what was the point of the Prince joining?

 

[Sean Thornton]

It should be Sean, and if its not then I'm sorry but what was the point of the Prince joining?

Why "should" it be? We don't know the cash available to the owners. Or what may have changed for them financially.

It's like saying there should be people out there queuing to buy the club. But there aren't.

 

[Tunstall Fred]

It should be Sean, and if its not then I'm sorry but what was the point of the Prince joining?

Maybe being able to offer new and improved contracts to Billy,Bash,Coutts,Freeman,Fleck,Jack,Brooks and now Leon is part of the Prince being onboard,without him 2or 3 of these would have been sold?

 

[Booker4]

Why "should" it be? We don't know the cash available to the owners. Or what may have changed for them financially.

It's like saying there should be people out there queuing to buy the club. But there aren't.

I've given up justifying my views mate, the last 8 posts say it all. His situation might have changed? It might but I very much doubt he's not the multi millionaire owner he was 5 years ago, this sort of thing usually comes out. If he can't afford it then we may as well have just stuck with McCabe in sole control. I'm not anti the Prince but the dual ownership was supposed to provide funds for team strengthening and I'm not seeing evidence of this.

 

[bertieblade]

What about the £30 million required to tread water in the first division?
I do however doubt that we will have a better opportunity to achieve promotion than that which currently presents itself and feel that Wilder should be given money, after all in theory the resale incomes of ~ £7 million was not budgeted for, it does however appear that this is being used to limit the amount of investment from McCabe as opposed to speculating to take us forward

 

[Booker4]

Maybe being able to offer new and improved contracts to Billy,Bash,Coutts,Freeman,Fleck,Jack,Brooks and now Leon is part of the Prince being onboard,without him 2or 3 of these would have been sold?

Wilder said today that Leon could have got twice what he has got now at United. All of the players stay because they love how things are under Wilder and Knill and that's credit to those two. Its getting in decent players to improve what we have that I fear is going to be near impossible.

 

[Tunstall Fred]

Wilder said today that Leon could have got twice what he has got now at United. All of the players stay because they love how things are under Wilder and Knill and that's credit to those two. Its getting in decent players to improve what we have that I fear is going to be near impossible.

But there is still a increased cost to the club,the players all received wage increases in their new contracts and rightly so,after what they have achieved,much as they like it at the club,and like working for CW/AK they will not have taken a pay cut will they?

 

[Sean Thornton]

I've given up justifying my views mate, the last 8 posts say it all. His situation might have changed? It might but I very much doubt he's not the multi millionaire owner he was 5 years ago, this sort of thing usually comes out. If he can't afford it then we may as well have just stuck with McCabe in sole control. I'm not anti the Prince but the dual ownership was supposed to provide funds for team strengthening and I'm not seeing evidence of this.

Multi millionaires don't necessarily have bundles of cash to spend and banks aren't throwing millions at loss making clubs like ours. Over twenty million cash has gone in since the Prince teamed up with KMc on top of what Kevin put in before. I doubt they envisaged that much being blown before promotion.

I agree that there's no evidence of the promised spending on promotion but I'm also realistic enough to see that that situation makes it obvious we are unlikely to spend millions, something others clearly expect.

I still don't understand why the money "should" be there, when the club loses millions every year.

 

[BushBlade]

Whether its now, ten years ago, the 80's or even further back, more money gives you a higher chance of succeeding in football. There weren't the foreign owners then like now, but the point still stands that Warnock was backed and we got promoted. Without the signings I mentioned I think Leeds would have pipped us, who didn't have a foreign owner or parachute money, but they backed Blackwell and we pipped them because we had the better manager who was also backed. We're only where we are now because of Wilder ad Knill and their skill at identifying players who are overlooked by other clubs at our level other than the likes of Barnsley and Milwall who have to fish in a similar pond, such as League One and Scotland. We are 7th and have been 2nd for large parts and are far bigger clubs than Milwall and Barnsley but the expenditure is similar, but they don't have Wilder in charge and have the pulling power that we have as a big club. If you deny this then you deny Wilder's interview today and before where he has stated we are no where near big spenders in the league or on wages. We don't want money grabbers, but we do want to attract players that we currently can't. Don't ask me for names but its obvious we can't compete with teams around us, and rely on up and coming players from League One, who other clubs in the top 10 won't go for because they can afford a higher transfer for players, although thankfully not necessarily better.

As for the Academy you mentioned, in reality the only players that have made it for us have gone onto be Premier League level or above. Is Ben going to be that level, maybe, but he isn't ready now to take the place of Brooks, Fleck or Lunny. Is he going to be good enough as a sub? Maybe, but I'd rather us spend on Leonard; a player who has over 300 league games under his belt and two player of the season awards in the last two seasons for Southend. Now isn't the time to rely on Ben Whiteman as a substitute for Brooks or any of the other midfielders. That's my view, you might disagree, and ideally Whiteman was going to be left at Donny but as Wilder said if we don't get anyone in, then we need Whiteman here, and yes Wilder also said he might prove to be good enough, but it's a lot to ask from half a season 's experience at Donny and a few games for Mansfield.

Finally Bush, I do like McCabe, contrary to what you might think, he's made some mistakes and some decisions which I disagree with but what Chairman hasn't but now is the time to reward Wilder with a budget that can give us the best chance of promotion. I don't conclude he is from all that's coming out at the minute. It's only due to Wilder and Knill that we're where we are now, other than McCabe appointing him.

Tbh, I don't care who likes McCabe and who doesn't. I don't like him but I do understand that he's not a bottomless pit. And I'm going to wait until the window closes until I pass judgement on the business we do.

 

[BushBlade]

What if the money's not there?

That's just your opinion though, in my opinion the money's there, so it is, end of.

 

[Booker4]

But there is still a increased cost to the club,the players all received wage increases in their new contracts and rightly so,after what they have achieved,much as they like it at the club,and like working for CW/AK they will not have taken a pay cut will they?

Its not so much keeping the existing players that worries me, and yes you're right, it all costs more to pay greater wages, but that's football and we've also increased our income too

Tbh, I don't care who likes McCabe and who doesn't. I don't like him but I do understand that he's not a bottomless pit. And I'm going to wait until the window closes until I pass judgement on the business we do.

Fair enough, but its more the Prince with the promise of significant funds for player recruitment or whoever it was dressed, that is annoying, although what is considered substantial is obviously open to debate. I also like the Prince in terms of how he comes across but I don't see the funding we have for players as what I was expecting, and I wasn't expecting millions and millions like Derby and Wednesday.

 

[BushBlade]

Its not so much keeping the existing players that worries me, and yes you're right, it all costs more to pay greater wages, but that's football and we've also increased our income too



Fair enough, but its more the Prince with the promise of significant funds for player recruitment or whoever it was dressed, that is annoying, although what is considered substantial is obviously open to debate. I also like the Prince in terms of how he comes across but I don't see the funding we have for players as what I was expecting, and I wasn't expecting millions and millions like Derby and Wednesday.

I genuinely don't think the Prince realised what he was getting into or how much it would cost him. My take is that he's spent £3000 on a broken down car that would be worth £5,000 if it was working, thinking he could get it fixed for a couple of hundred quid. It turns out it's cost him £2,000 to get it fixed and now his wife wants him to buy some alloys.

 

[UnitedBlade]

Preston, one of our rivals, have signed two players this week.

Preston are owned by a billionaire who pumps money in every year, over £30M of loans in recent seasons, over £5M cash pumped in last year.

We can wish that our owners are billionaires but they aren't. They will supply what they can afford.

 

[Booker4]

Preston are owned by a billionaire who pumps money in every year, over £30M of loans in recent seasons, over £5M cash pumped in last year.

We can wish that our owners are billionaires but they aren't. They will supply what they can afford.

Fair enough but I don't think its unreasonable to expect more than the current expenditure from the McCabe and Prince Partnership. If the stance is we want to establish ourselves first with careful expenditure and then over time go for it more than why not do it now, we have as a good a chance now as we may well do for many a year. Wilder said over time he knows we'll have to spend more by the way, but it seems as good a time as any for me, the relegated clubs are very weak this season.

 

[wizadry]

Tbh, I don't care who likes McCabe and who doesn't. I don't like him but I do understand that he's not a bottomless pit. And I'm going to wait until the window closes until I pass judgement on the business we do.

Spot on!

 

[robbiez666]

Recalling him makes sense. The mix reports come from the fact he's been playing an unfamiliar and largely unappreciated holding role. He's scored a fair few when he's played his normal position, knows what we're about abd will provide good cover and great energy coming off the bench.

 

[GreasyChipBeattie]

We can't have Whiteman and Blackman in the same team, it'll cause a rupture in the space-time continuum and may even be a sign of the coming apocalypse.

Nearly liked that TD, but noticed you'd had 30-odd likes already. Good post though.

 

[Tyler Durden]

Nearly liked that TD, but noticed you'd had 30-odd likes already. Good post though.

Tight bastard.

 

[UnitedBlade]

Fair enough but I don't think its unreasonable to expect more than the current expenditure from the McCabe and Prince Partnership. If the stance is we want to establish ourselves first with careful expenditure and then over time go for it more than why not do it now, we have as a good a chance now as we may well do for many a year. Wilder said over time he knows we'll have to spend more by the way, but it seems as good a time as any for me, the relegated clubs are very weak this season.

In my opinion, failing to get out of Division 3 for 6 years really blew a hole in the money to use in our first year back.

I genuinely don't know how much they are providing to Wilder. It's very tough to compete with parachute clubs and owners willing to chuck millions at the club (I'm not sure I'd want Chansiri's approach although Chris wouldn't have wasted what the pigs have).

At least we have a management team that I'm sure will get value for money but we could well fall short of a top 6 finish.

We live in hope.

 

[GreasyChipBeattie]

Tight bastard.

Not liked that either