What could the club do to improve communication?

[Linz]

A lot of people are sceptical about the fans forums but how could the club get a message to you that you would believe?

Is it the manner of delivery that is causing suspicion from some?

Is it what is being said?

Or is it the people saying it?

 

[lenners]

They don't communicate with any clarity whatsoever.
I asked someone on here who was trumpeting how great the forums had been for something from them which would encourage any of the 7,000 plus to renew.
I don't think I got a response but there was nothing there. No clear indication of what players we need, where we're getting them from, what the budget is, when we hope to sign them right down to a bit of equivocation about who the manager is going to be.
They equivocated about how much Evans cost, they didn't have a scooby about the Kyle Walker deal and then treat us like mugs by suggesting Paddy Kenny being in net was a reason to buy a season ticket.
I've no idea who's advising them but they either don't know that long-standing fans are walking away in droves or don't care.

 

[Rustyblade]

No clear indication of what players we need, where we're getting them from, what the budget is, when we hope to sign them

Don't quite get this, Lenners. I can't believe you were expecting something along the lines of, "We need a midfielder first. We hope to get that lad Dorrans from West Brom. We can go up to 3 mill and a Chedwyn. Hopefully we can get him before pre-season training starts." but it sure reads like it.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

When KM said "Get it Sorted trevor" on Friday, in what sort of manner was that delivered?

 

[j j]

No clear indication of what players we need, where we're getting them from, what the budget is, when we hope to sign them right down to a bit of equivocation about who the manager is going to be.

Good. To grant those wishes would be commercially daft.

What I would like is a decent amount of free football-related and match-related content on the website. A website is a powerful publicity tool, yet SUFC does not use it. Club emails go straight into the trash unread because if I click the links I get asked for money to read information that should be free to me as a fan. If I go to the official site I feel excluded despite being a season ticket holder when it should be my first port of call for SUFC info. Whether I have seen a game or missed one, I never visit the official site because there will be nothing there and that's a waste of a potentially powerful communication resource.

 

[lenners]

Good. To grant those wishes would be commercially daft.

What I would like is a decent amount of free football-related and match-related content on the website. A website is a powerful publicity tool, yet SUFC does not use it. Club emails go straight into the trash unread because if I click the links I get asked for money to read information that should be free to me as a fan. If I go to the official site I feel excluded despite being a season ticket holder when it should be my first port of call for SUFC info. Whether I have seen a game or missed one, I never visit the official site because there will be nothing there and that's a waste of a potentially powerful communication resource.

Where in what I said is there anything about granting wishes?
The issue is communication but we had no clear idea at all of what the squad rebuilding is going to entail, at all.
You might think that's good but I know season ticket holders who listened to that forum and it simply confirmed they would not be renewing.
It isn't about money or spending shedloads on players. It's about United losing its soul this season. Long-standing fans finding themselves bewildered at the latest loanee turning up and feeling no connection with the team.
When you do that on the back of selling the two best local lads to come through for a generation people naturally wonder what it is they're supporting.
And that's before you get to the shameful lack of planning for last season.

 

[bladesman1889]

Where in what I said is there anything about granting wishes?
The issue is communication but we had no clear idea at all of what the squad rebuilding is going to entail, at all.
You might think that's good but I know season ticket holders who listened to that forum and it simply confirmed they would not be renewing.
It isn't about money or spending shedloads on players. It's about United losing its soul this season. Long-standing fans finding themselves bewildered at the latest loanee turning up and feeling no connection with the team.
When you do that on the back of selling the two best local lads to come through for a generation people naturally wonder what it is they're supporting.
And that's before you get to the shameful lack of planning for last season.

What do you expect McCabe to say about squad building? tell all our rivals who we're interested in?

Just because a few of your pals haven't renewed doesn't mean it's doomsday, 13k out of 18k have already renewed and we're apparently 1.5k behind ST sales this time last season.

The two Kyles- quite simply, why/how would we ever turn down a 10m bid for two players with barely a season's experience between them?

 

[lenners]

What do you expect McCabe to say about squad building? tell all our rivals who we're interested in?

Just because a few of your pals haven't renewed doesn't mean it's doomsday, 13k out of 18k have already renewed and we're apparently 1.5k behind ST sales this time last season.

The two Kyles- quite simply, why/how would we ever turn down a 10m bid for two players with barely a season's experience between them?

You really don't get it, do you.
Fans want to see players they can relate to or players that are genuine class.
The Kyles actually had both.
What they don't want is a sea of mediocrity and a conveyor belt of non-entities week in, week out who have little or no connection to SUFC beyond picking up an inflated wage.
That isn't supporting a football club, that's being asked to support a badly performing business.
(And we had 19,700 season ticket holders last season.)

 

[Chingo]

Can anyone who attended the fans forums say they came out of them with any idea in which the club is heading in the near future ?


Are we having another go , are we in for another bore season , or is it cut costs and hope we stay up ? , it is very confusing at the minute one minute players are off the next were discussing terms with Monty and Naismith (who we thought would be too pricey in the wage department for us) ... so is there a pot of cash to have another go next season ???


All this confusion after around 3 hours of the two top honcho's at the club having a audience with the fans means the forums were a complete falure ... yes I can see the not revealing your hand argument but it is season ticket renewal time and if there was anything to shout about ... they would have said it.

Openess and honesty (not ala Strafford) would be appreciated and if it is a season of cutting cost tell us then it won't be such a shock to find ourselves in a relegation scrap next season ... the old KM line of were going for it again doesn't wash anymore as we see our best players leave at least the grunters know they have got nowt so they don't expect an awful lot !

 

[Highbury_Blade]

You really don't get it, do you.
Fans want to see players they can relate to or players that are genuine class.
The Kyles actually had both.
What they don't want is a sea of mediocrity and a conveyor belt of non-entities week in, week out who have little or no connection to SUFC beyond picking up an inflated wage.
That isn't supporting a football club, that's being asked to support a badly performing business.
(And we had 19,700 season ticket holders last season.)

I can't argue with any of that

 

[Revolution]

I think it is what is being said (or what has been said) that causes the communication problem.

Openess and honesty (not ala Strafford) would be appreciated and if it is a season of cutting cost tell us then it won't be such a shock to find ourselves in a relegation scrap next season ... the old KM line of were going for it again doesn't wash anymore as we see our best players leave at least the grunters know they have got nowt so they don't expect an awful lot !

I think Chingo nails it here. There is a disconnect between what we are told and what actually happens, such as:

- "the shutters will go down" re the two Kyles
- KB saying Kilgallon would not be sold past a certain deadline...he was
- the infamous Beattie interview
- the recall of Walker coming out of the blue when we'd been told it was a season long loan like Sharp's

It's stuff like this that leads me to live by the maxim that you should ignore what United say and simply watch what they do. There's nothing wrong with optimism, but let's have some realism. If a player may be sold, don't say he won't be. If there's no money, say so. If you can't do that, say nothing.

Chingo - I think the reason you didn't get anything to shout about from the forums was that there is nothing to shout about, unfortunately. It may well be that, in light of this and also the bleak picture we've been painted at times since Birch's first interview, this is the way they are going to do it from now one. Good. The truth may hurt, but at least it's the truth.

(incidentally, one thing that I was disappointed was not picked up on at the forum was the terms of the Walker loan. A lot of energy was expended on why Spurs wanted him back, but the question of why that situation was allowed to develop at all when United had represented we'd have Walker all year was not addressed, and I for one would have been interested in that point).

 

[1973_Blade]

How has this thread managed to become another 'slagging united off' thread for the vocal minority to have a moan? 4 questions were asked at the start and how many have been answered? It is going over old ground again and again. If you have decided not to renew fine - bugger off and moan on your own and let the fans who have decided to stay to think about the future of the club. We all know that things have gone wrong and the season was not what we wanted but why drag up things that you, or anyone can change?
Thinking about the questions - I think that some people will not believe anything the club says no matter who, how, when or where they say it. It would seem to me that a person who has the respect of the fans needs to be the figurehead - Rooks? Morgs? Someone who we can trust to pass on the information to us. The website seems to be to place , but why not forums like this and others - why can't the club work closer to the people who run them? Also why not put the important - fans related interviews onto The Player but make that content FOC? I am sure there are many other ways that people in other lines of business can think of. Whatever is done it needs to be regular and honesty has to the key.

 

[Revolution]

WarringtonBlade, what on Earth is wrong with you? Every single post in this thread deals with the communication issue raised by Linz in one way or another.

 

[MAQ]

I apreciate that not all supporters are members of the twittersphere, and despite the club moving forward as per my suggestion at the last Q&A regarding communication in this form and many others they still cant get it right.

There links within their tweets never work. All direct to the same error page.

So they could learn how to do this properly, or get one of us to help/do it for them

 

[Paulus]

The reason I don't bother with the official site is that unfortunately the management speakers, the PR bullshitters, the customer service crapmeisters and the marketing men have combined and in a unilateral decision have decided that I am not a football supporter but a club customer and speak to me as such. They feel I need cajoling and constantly tempting to support the Blades when in fact I don't. Not surprisingly I start to treat the messages they send me with huge cynicism because there is always an edge behind them, they are never balanced or objective it's like listening to the media under a dictatorship. Everything is green in the garden. A classic example of this was that after feeding me with a couple of years worth of largely unwanted drivel about Chengdu Blades when there is actually a story ie how they got demoted due to corruption the Official site mentions not a word. If the club wants to communicate with me then treat me as an adult not a sap.

 

[lenners]

The reason I don't bother with the official site is that unfortunately the management speakers, the PR bullshitters, the customer service crapmeisters and the marketing men have combined and in a unilateral decision have decided that I am not a football supporter but a club customer and speak to me as such. They feel I need cajoling and constantly tempting to support the Blades when in fact I don't. Not surprisingly I start to treat the messages they send me with huge cynicism because there is always an edge behind them, they are never balanced or objective it's like listening to the media under a dictatorship. Everything is green in the garden. A classic example of this was that after feeding me with a couple of years worth of largely unwanted drivel about Chengdu Blades when there is actually a story ie how they got demoted due to corruption the Official site mentions not a word. If the club wants to communicate with me then treat me as an adult not a sap.

Several nails hit squarely on the head with that post.
And as Revolution said, if you bullshit when it comes to the deals that really matter - and the explanation for Walker underlined this perfectly - fans simply will not believe whatever you say. And why should they.

 

[Linz]

So with all that in mind, do you have any examples of clubs who do communicate with fans "properly"?

 

[Revolution]

So with all that in mind, do you have any examples of clubs who do communicate with fans "properly"?

Staying within my area of concern, any club who says "Player X is not for sale" and doesn't then sell player X is communicating properly, because they have backed up their words with deeds.

 

[Darren]

The reason I don't bother with the official site is that unfortunately the management speakers, the PR bullshitters, the customer service crapmeisters and the marketing men have combined and in a unilateral decision have decided that I am not a football supporter but a club customer and speak to me as such. They feel I need cajoling and constantly tempting to support the Blades when in fact I don't. Not surprisingly I start to treat the messages they send me with huge cynicism because there is always an edge behind them, they are never balanced or objective it's like listening to the media under a dictatorship. Everything is green in the garden. A classic example of this was that after feeding me with a couple of years worth of largely unwanted drivel about Chengdu Blades when there is actually a story ie how they got demoted due to corruption the Official site mentions not a word. If the club wants to communicate with me then treat me as an adult not a sap.

To be fair, all business communication is driven by bullshit and one sidededness. You don't get Tesco saying that "well, on balance, and having considered the issue fairly, Sainsburys do better bananas than we do".

 

[Sensiblade]

I see the problem (not the right word but it'll do) being not communicating with the fans, but trying not to tell all rival clubs/media/players agents etc too much.
We as fans suffer lack of information due to United (or any club) not wanting to show their hand to all who can gain access to any information that is published by the club.
It's frustrating and we end up feeling like mushrooms, but it is also neccessary so that the club can deal with things without the world knowing about it.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Just lost my entire post. BOLLOCKS!!!!!

Basically I think the fans forums need to be more intimate and set up so that questions can be re-directed until the fans in the room feel it has been answered.
I also think Radio Sheffield shouldn't be involved as it puts up a wall where we all know it is being broadcast and it is for available to all.

Obviously the board cannot be entirely open and honest about every topic, available wage bill or transfer budget in exactly figures is clearly a no no. However we should be able to ask questions about our debt. On the accounts it is £50 Million, and our board seem quite comfortable with this yet the to the fans this seems too high. We need this explaining to us why the club doesn't see this as an issue, how is it easily manageable without impacting on the club? If we are looking at investing in the hotel/property for short term cost for long term gain we need to know this. At least we would know and then have an opinion on if it is what we'd want to do.

I think quarterly forums with Birch either via webchat or pre sent in questions would help, while I would also keep two bi-yearly (pre-season, and January ish) with both him and McCabe would be very beneficial. We need to be able to set questions and them to feel comfortable saying "we can't/won't discuss the managers position" for obvious reasons.
Fans also need to re-adjust their expectations they can't tell us everything it just wouldn't be in the clubs interests but we need to feel that they are actually answering our questions and understand our concerns. Let them have the questions before hand that isn't an issue if you have the process to get the answer you are after but you need to be able to redirect back to them if they haven't covered what you want answering.
As i've discussed with you before I think sending in detailed questions to Birch via this web site would be a good start.

 

[SheepdipBlade]

Part of the problem we face at the moment is that many fans have been frustrated by the season we've had and have developed a cynical view of the club. This places the club in a no-win position - bad news leads to protests and unrest whilst good news is seen as a disingenuous smoke screen. Put simply - this season has seen a (large?) growth in the number of fans who don't trust the club and the messages it gives. Admittedly - it's own efforts seem to have been fairly lacklustre, though as others have said - there's a limit to how transparent the club can be in terms of it's internal workings, finances and transfers etc.

We know KMcC doesn't follow forums (fora?) like ours - but that the club does - - and we can be fairly sure that this forum is regarded by the club as the main independant voice of Blades fans.

To develop trust between club and fans - could we not propose periodic meetings between a small number of forum members (6?) reflecting the spectrum of opinion (middle as well as extremes), with club officials - which would then lead to reports being independantly placed on here by those members (with their varying views)

An ongoing dialogue between club officials and a spectrum of fans would help develop the trust that seems to be missing. The reports posted after meetings, made from different persectives should help give a more informed view to the rest of us, and perhaps lessen extremes - creating a more united fan base, more aware of realities (and hopefully) more supportive of the club's actions.

The key to this working would need to be the "terms of engagement" - there's no point trying to develop understanding and trust if people simply want to have a pop - or are set upon asking questions that the club won't/can't answer. Once the forum and club had agreed a set of rules re appropriate themes and conduct, it would be up to each of us to decide whether the exercise was credible and whether we'd wish to participate if asked.

If the "terms of engagement" were right - I can see no reason why this wouldn't create a situation where everybody would benefit - and therefore why the club wouldn't be open for giving it a try.

 

[Grecian2000]

A lot of people are sceptical about the fans forums but how could the club get a message to you that you would believe?

Is it the manner of delivery that is causing suspicion from some?

Is it what is being said?

Or is it the people saying it?

1. Hold the forum without the interference of Radio Sheffield. Post the transcript on the official site and ask for comments there. Answer these comments.

2. I don't trust anything done as a PR excercise and with RS at the helm, so Yes, it is the manner of delivery for me.

3. Not really.

4. Yes. Don't believe certain things especially after last years events.

PS. If the official site was taken back, taken care over and not just some piece of advertising crap, there would be little need to go through these things. Let the web site do the talking.

 

[Tuns]

On season ticket sales - I am not a mate of Lenners but after 35 years I am not renewing so there are others of us out there.

I know of 6 other long standing Blades that are not renewing. We've got over 200 years of watching United between us, shares, Blades Revival and I've watched United in over 80 grounds, slept out for tickets many times in the car park, shaped my career and family life about being able to get to games.

We've stuck with United through far worse predicaments than facing another season in the championship, but something has changed.

I am not entirely sure what, but it's just not fun any more, it's boring and somehow the club just seems distant from us - I don't recognise the club now to the one I've stuck by in the past.

Communication and the fans forums - let's be straight. The club was forced into holding the forums after they were shocked by the loss of season ticket sales. They did not try to communicate with us for the previous 6 months and explain some of the farcical situations we had. As an exercise to sell season tickets the forums were awful and surely failed.

In a way I can't believe I am not renewing and I wanted to be inspired by our leaders to change my mind. Instead I was left thinking I had made the right decision. And I felt McCabe isn't that bothered any more either.

I am sure we'll limp through a few hundred more sales, maybe even another 1,500 or so and get to 14 or even 15k.

Many will say how great that is considering all that is going on. But once those 5,000 stop going it is hard to get them back.

Communication and PR has been terrible recently. Communicating throughout the season instead of only at season ticket sale time would be a start. Give Birch some interview training an make sure he knows what this club and its fans are all about.

But what I and the people I know who are not renewing want to see more than anything is action. Some inspirational, exciting signings to put down a marker as to what the club is about next season and beyond (it doesn't always take lots of money). And some kind of commitment to develop and keep our best players for more than a few months - or else the whole thing is pointless!

 

[davidpinder]

On season ticket sales - I am not a mate of Lenners but after 35 years I am not renewing so there are others of us out there.

I know of 6 other long standing Blades that are not renewing. We've got over 200 years of watching United between us, shares, Blades Revival and I've watched United in over 80 grounds, slept out for tickets many times in the car park, shaped my career and family life about being able to get to games.

We've stuck with United through far worse predicaments than facing another season in the championship, but something has changed.

I am not entirely sure what, but it's just not fun any more, it's boring and somehow the club just seems distant from us - I don't recognise the club now to the one I've stuck by in the past.

Communication and the fans forums - let's be straight. The club was forced into holding the forums after they were shocked by the loss of season ticket sales. They did not try to communicate with us for the previous 6 months and explain some of the farcical situations we had. As an exercise to sell season tickets the forums were awful and surely failed.

In a way I can't believe I am not renewing and I wanted to be inspired by our leaders to change my mind. Instead I was left thinking I had made the right decision. And I felt McCabe isn't that bothered any more either.

I am sure we'll limp through a few hundred more sales, maybe even another 1,500 or so and get to 14 or even 15k.

Many will say how great that is considering all that is going on. But once those 5,000 stop going it is hard to get them back.

Communication and PR has been terrible recently. Communicating throughout the season instead of only at season ticket sale time would be a start. Give Birch some interview training an make sure he knows what this club and its fans are all about.

But what I and the people I know who are not renewing want to see more than anything is action. Some inspirational, exciting signings to put down a marker as to what the club is about next season and beyond (it doesn't always take lots of money). And some kind of commitment to develop and keep our best players for more than a few months - or else the whole thing is pointless!

Good post am sure you 6 are not on your own, as olle says many weeks put what you just said in a letter to trev birch you're the fans they will hate losing explain why and the message may finally start getting through, i can even sense the disappointment you have in not wanting to renew.

 

[Grecian2000]

On season ticket sales - I am not a mate of Lenners but after 35 years I am not renewing so there are others of us out there.

I know of 6 other long standing Blades that are not renewing. We've got over 200 years of watching United between us, shares, Blades Revival and I've watched United in over 80 grounds, slept out for tickets many times in the car park, shaped my career and family life about being able to get to games.

We've stuck with United through far worse predicaments than facing another season in the championship, but something has changed.

I am not entirely sure what, but it's just not fun any more, it's boring and somehow the club just seems distant from us - I don't recognise the club now to the one I've stuck by in the past.

Bloody hell. Add a few to the number of people I spoke to last Saturday who aren't renewing, add 10 years and a few grounds and I could have written that word for word.

In all, I spoke to 18 current ST holders on Saturday either in and around my seat (and it IS my seat because no-one else has used it since the bloody Kop went all seater) and at half/full time and 12 haven't renewed. The six that have all wanted someone else in charge but can't "give it up" just yet. It's all very strange at the moment.

 

[Micalijo]

On season ticket sales - I am not a mate of Lenners but after 35 years I am not renewing so there are others of us out there.

I know of 6 other long standing Blades that are not renewing. We've got over 200 years of watching United between us, shares, Blades Revival and I've watched United in over 80 grounds, slept out for tickets many times in the car park, shaped my career and family life about being able to get to games.

We've stuck with United through far worse predicaments than facing another season in the championship, but something has changed.

I am not entirely sure what, but it's just not fun any more, it's boring and somehow the club just seems distant from us - I don't recognise the club now to the one I've stuck by in the past.

Communication and the fans forums - let's be straight. The club was forced into holding the forums after they were shocked by the loss of season ticket sales. They did not try to communicate with us for the previous 6 months and explain some of the farcical situations we had. As an exercise to sell season tickets the forums were awful and surely failed.

In a way I can't believe I am not renewing and I wanted to be inspired by our leaders to change my mind. Instead I was left thinking I had made the right decision. And I felt McCabe isn't that bothered any more either.

I am sure we'll limp through a few hundred more sales, maybe even another 1,500 or so and get to 14 or even 15k.

Many will say how great that is considering all that is going on. But once those 5,000 stop going it is hard to get them back.

Communication and PR has been terrible recently. Communicating throughout the season instead of only at season ticket sale time would be a start. Give Birch some interview training an make sure he knows what this club and its fans are all about.

But what I and the people I know who are not renewing want to see more than anything is action. Some inspirational, exciting signings to put down a marker as to what the club is about next season and beyond (it doesn't always take lots of money). And some kind of commitment to develop and keep our best players for more than a few months - or else the whole thing is pointless!

Top stuff, as usual Tuns. Could post more often please?

Shame you aint renewing. I feel exactly same as you but have got a ticket. Someone on here posted they were determined to outlast Blackwell and that's why I've got one - along with my fondness of supping beer on saturday lunchtime.

 

[raul]

He could maybe not shake his head when presented with a list of questions people of all persuasions took the time to put via this forum?

That said, all the small stuff - the website, irregularity of communication, etc etc will all magically disappear if/when we have a team of our own contracted players trying to play football and win games in a manner that makes you quicken your step when in sight of BDT. If/when they manage that, don't care if they never "talk" to me again. Can only endorse Rev's words about deeds over words.

 

[Micalijo]

He could maybe not shake his head when presented with a list of questions people of all persuasions took the time to put via this forum?

That said, all the small stuff - the website, irregularity of communication, etc etc will all magically disappear if/when we have a team of our own contracted players trying to play football and win games in a manner that makes you quicken your step when in sight of BDT. If/when they manage that, don't care if they never "talk" to me again. Can only endorse Rev's words about deeds over words.

Exactly, it is very simple. No need at all for these forums with McCabe if the club is run properly - ie balanced squad of contracted players playing with unity, under anyone but Blackwell!

I think he was shaking his head at the response to the first forum not the list of questions.

 

[bladesman1889]

You really don't get it, do you.
Fans want to see players they can relate to or players that are genuine class.
The Kyles actually had both.
What they don't want is a sea of mediocrity and a conveyor belt of non-entities week in, week out who have little or no connection to SUFC beyond picking up an inflated wage.
That isn't supporting a football club, that's being asked to support a badly performing business.
(And we had 19,700 season ticket holders last season.)

If you think we, or just about any club in this division, could've afforded to keep hold of them both you're plain deluded. And you'll be constantly disappointed because as a CCC club we can't continue to keep quality players, we should know that more than most.