West Ham and Tevez, also culpable.

[wizadry]

Glad you are dictating to us what an achievement is. Here's my take on it.

An achievement is something that is accomplished or performed successfully. It does not have to be something that enters the archives. It can be anything that anyone considers to have been a successfully accomplished task, whether tangible or intangible.

Doubling our attendances is an achievement. Securing our second division status, when we looked relegation certainties is an achievement, just as a promotion is an achievement.

Every victory in any game is an achievement and getting through several rounds of two cup competitions often against opposition from a higher league are achievements.

And , yes, making people feel good about going to Bramall Lane is an achievement, just as giving thousands of people many, many good memories is most definitely an achievement.

You're clutching at straws here.The only thing Warnock ACHIEVED for us is promotion to the premier league.You don't achieve fighting relegation,you don't achieve losing in semi finals in anything.

In 7 years,Warnock gave us some great times,and some unbelievable last minute goals,but they're not achievements.The only thing he achieved,was promotion to the Premier league,quickly followed by relegation from it.Is that relegation an achievement because he succesfully accomplished it.

When Warnock came to us we were in the Championship,when he left us we were in the Championship.Great times they were,but achievements,sorry but only one for me.

 

[judge]

You're clutching at straws here.The only thing Warnock ACHIEVED for us is promotion to the premier league.You don't achieve fighting relegation,you don't achieve losing in semi finals in anything.

In 7 years,Warnock gave us some great times,and some unbelievable last minute goals,but they're not achievements.The only thing he achieved,was promotion to the Premier league,quickly followed by relegation from it.Is that relegation an achievement because he succesfully accomplished it.

When Warnock came to us we were in the Championship,when he left us we were in the Championship.Great times they were,but achievements,sorry but only one for me.

But we dont have any achievements though do we ?

 

[wizadry]

But we dont have any achievements though do we ?

I'm willing to give him that one.

 

[Zanzibar]

Glad you are dictating to us what an achievement is. Here's my take on it.

An achievement is something that is accomplished or performed successfully. It does not have to be something that enters the archives. It can be anything that anyone considers to have been a successfully accomplished task, whether tangible or intangible.

Doubling our attendances is an achievement. Securing our second division status, when we looked relegation certainties is an achievement, just as a promotion is an achievement.

Every victory in any game is an achievement and getting through several rounds of two cup competitions often against opposition from a higher league are achievements.

And , yes, making people feel good about going to Bramall Lane is an achievement, just as giving thousands of people many, many good memories is most definitely an achievement.

Sorry......your definition of achievement is so different from mine.
You seem to be much happier about United than I am.
Good luck to that.

 

[Darren]

Sorry......your definition of achievement is so different from mine.
You seem to be much happier about United than I am.
Good luck to that.

Who do you think we are? Man Utd or something?

Since we got relegated from the top flight in 1976 our greatest achievement (by your definition) has been promotion back there. Only Warnock and Bassett have managed that out of 18 managers.

That makes Warnock one of the 2 best United managers of the last 40 years doesn't it?

 

[oldblade]

You're clutching at straws here.The only thing Warnock ACHIEVED for us is promotion to the premier league.You don't achieve fighting relegation,you don't achieve losing in semi finals in anything.

In 7 years,Warnock gave us some great times,and some unbelievable last minute goals,but they're not achievements.The only thing he achieved,was promotion to the Premier league,quickly followed by relegation from it.Is that relegation an achievement because he succesfully accomplished it.

When Warnock came to us we were in the Championship,when he left us we were in the Championship.Great times they were,but achievements,sorry but only one for me.

So, when at the half way stage of a season you look like relegation certainties, avoiding relegation is not an achievement??!! Says who? What is it if it's not an achievement, a failure?. I don't know many people who wouldn't regard it as an achievement given our position at the end of November 1999. And I'll bet the board's brief to Warnock was simply not to get relegated. He obviously failed to achieve this.

Losing a semi final is not an achievement, but getting there is. Especially when you are a championship club and despatch premier league clubs along the way.

By your logic Nigel Clough achieved precisely nothing last season.

Oh, and typing the word achieved in block capitals does not add any gravitas or credibility to your post. I can read it vin normal type. I'm not blind.

I agree, when Warnock came to us we were in the championship, but as you clearly have not noticed we were at the bottom end of it and flat broke. When we left we were only just relegated from the premier league, with a very strong squad of players that should easily have seen us mount a successful promotion campaign. And he also left is in a far, far stronger position financially,

Straws are being clutched, but not by me.

 

[oldblade]

Sorry......your definition of achievement is so different from mine.
You seem to be much happier about United than I am.
Good luck to that.

Yes, my definition of achievement allows things that Neil Warnock achieved to be called achievements. Yours clearly doesn't.

I have no idea whether or not I'm much happier with United than you, but your logic seems to be saying that I think Neil Warnock did actually achieve a few things whilst with us so I must be much happier with United than you.

Good luck with that.

 

[wizadry]

So, when at the half way stage of a season you look like relegation certainties, avoiding relegation is not an achievement??!! Says who? What is it if it's not an achievement, a failure?. I don't know many people who wouldn't regard it as an achievement given our position at the end of November 1999. And I'll bet the board's brief to Warnock was simply not to get relegated. He obviously failed to achieve this.

Losing a semi final is not an achievement, but getting there is. Especially when you are a championship club and despatch premier league clubs along the way.

By your logic Nigel Clough achieved precisely nothing last season.

Oh, and typing the word achieved in block capitals does not add any gravitas or credibility to your post. I can read it vin normal type. I'm not blind.

I agree, when Warnock came to us we were in the championship, but as you clearly have not noticed we were at the bottom end of it and flat broke. When we left we were only just relegated from the premier league, with a very strong squad of players that should easily have seen us mount a successful promotion campaign. And he also left is in a far, far stronger position financially,

Straws are being clutched, but not by me.

Thats your view and fair do's.Our views on achievements differ and there is nothing wrong with that,its what the forum is for.

What i will say is the squad we had last season,shouldn't have been in that position in the first place,but thats another story,so for me,Cloughy was in a no lose scenario.

Back to the main point though,which is where this all started from.It was our own fault why we got relegated,we should have made it Wigan's predicament,not ours,and the book stops at the manager,which at that time was Neil Warnock.

 

[Zanzibar]

Yes, my definition of achievement allows things that Neil Warnock achieved to be called achievements. Yours clearly doesn't.

I have no idea whether or not I'm much happier with United than you, but your logic seems to be saying that I think Neil Warnock did actually achieve a few things whilst with us so I must be much happier with United than you.

Good luck with that.

I think that we should end this one and agree to disagree on what achievements actually might be.
I hope that we can both celebrate a successful end to this particular season.

 

[Greenwich Blade]

Reading all the posts in this thread is something of an achievement.

Or is it?

 

[oldblade]

Thats your view and fair do's.Our views on achievements differ and there is nothing wrong with that,its what the forum is for.

What i will say is the squad we had last season,shouldn't have been in that position in the first place,but thats another story,so for me,Cloughy was in a no lose scenario.

Back to the main point though,which is where this all started from.It was our own fault why we got relegated,we should have made it Wigan's predicament,not ours,and the book stops at the manager,which at that time was Neil Warnock.

So you are saying that Clough achieved nothing last season. After all he only got us to an FA Cup semi final, which is clearly not an achievement, and also got us out of the brown stuff as far as the league goes which is also clearly not an achievement.

You seem to have an extremely narrow view of what can be classed as an achievement.

As far as the Wigan match goes, yes we did have a chance to make relegation their problem not ours and failed to do that. But that match should not have mattered one jot, other than to determine who finished 16th and 17th. When a club breaks the rules as emphatically as West Ham did the competition is skewed. We were 17th out of 19 clubs playing in the same competition. West Ham chose to play outside of that competition.

 

[wizadry]

So you are saying that Clough achieved nothing last season. After all he only got us to an FA Cup semi final, which is clearly not an achievement, and also got us out of the brown stuff as far as the league goes which is also clearly not an achievement.

You seem to have an extremely narrow view of what can be classed as an achievement.

As far as the Wigan match goes, yes we did have a chance to make relegation their problem not ours and failed to do that. But that match should not have mattered one jot, other than to determine who finished 16th and 17th. When a club breaks the rules as emphatically as West Ham did the competition is skewed. We were 17th out of 19 clubs playing in the same competition. West Ham chose to play outside of that competition.

Clough did a good job last season,there's no doubt about that,but for me this is the season to judge what he can do for us,and if we don't get promotion,that will be seen as failure as far as i'm concerned.

Do we,as Sheffield United,think achieving is avoiding relegation from the Championship or league one,in any way shape or form? My answer is no,because at the start of the season,the board don't say right we want you to go in the relegation zone,then we want you to get out of it.Or they don't say the goal is to stay up,unless of course we get into the Premier League.Me personally,shouldn't ever want us,as Sheffield United having to avoid relegation from any league,at any point of the season apart from possibly the Prem,and then say its an achievement for avoiding relegation from league one or Champs.If i have set my sights too high as a blade them i'm sorry for that.

 

[Greenwich Blade]

I'm through with this thread.

 

[metalblade]

I'm through with this thread.

One thing is certain, Colin divided the fans when he was our manager and he is still dividing the fans today, how refreshing for United to have a manager who has 99.9% of the fans behind him.

 

[oldblade]

Clough did a good job last season,there's no doubt about that,but for me this is the season to judge what he can do for us,and if we don't get promotion,that will be seen as failure as far as i'm concerned.

Do we,as Sheffield United,think achieving is avoiding relegation from the Championship or league one,in any way shape or form? My answer is no,because at the start of the season,the board don't say right we want you to go in the relegation zone,then we want you to get out of it.Or they don't say the goal is to stay up,unless of course we get into the Premier League.Me personally,shouldn't ever want us,as Sheffield United having to avoid relegation from any league,at any point of the season apart from possibly the Prem,and then say its an achievement for avoiding relegation from league one or Champs.If i have set my sights too high as a blade them i'm sorry for that.

So because we are Sheffield United we cannot claim avoiding relegation to the fourth division as an achievement. That completely ignores the context of where we were.

Yes, we are Sheffield United, but like it or not we were well and truly in in the dog poo after Weir's time. The team couldn't buy a win, the players had no confidence, no heart and no fight. Rectifying that was an achievement. As was getting what we thought were poor players to actually look like pretty good players.

We want to get in the premier league and win trophies. Getting relegated to the fourth division makes that more difficult and further away.

In any walk of life if you have a goal there are milestones along the way. Reaching each of those milestones is an achievement.

 

[United Aren't Back.]

Points from this:

1. Warnock came in when we were seriously bobbar. He steadied the team, brought in new players, we made a couple of good challenges and were not good enough to get through two semi finals and one playoff final in the same, breathtaking season.

2. We gained promotion two seasons later after strengthening and retaining a large portion of that playing staff.

3. We gave the PL a go and had it been for a few setbacks - Gerrard's 'intent' penalty, Kozluk's disallowed goal, even Hulse's broken ankle and then Carlos fucking Tevez, we would have just stayed up.

4. Warnock was offered a two year contract.

5. We can assume that no great investment was coming to the playing staff if we'd been relegated or stayed up.

6. Since Warnock went, we have been seriously bobbar.

Conclusion: Whilst he's not everyone's cup of tea, Warnock didn't destroy this club. The board and McCabe haven't helped much.

pommpey

03 was the semi finals x 2 plus play off final, then 06 was promotion..3 yrs later not two.

 

[JJ Sefton]

Reading all the posts in this thread is something of an achievement.

Or is it?

It's like watching every episode of Star Trek: Enterprise just because you've seen all the other stuff.

 

[Rudders]

Warnocks greatest achievement was making us the top team in yorkshire elavating us over the pigs and leeds , 2 clubs who had treated us like a laughing stock in my lifetime

It was nice while it lasted

It was nice to be able to take the pigs an weeds best players whilst we were at it, after years of them doing that to us

 

[sitwell]

Well, I've upset some posters obviously.
Achievements are those things which enter the archives as solid goals won....not memories as some suggest.
I too remember 2002/3 as a good season like many others, but they are memories not archiveable achievements....unless finishing second in some competitions that year, as well as we played, is important.
Yes, promotion to the Premiers is listed as fact but as Wizardry has said it took seven years to get there and the finishing positions in each of those years are factual and traceable.
Of course the other thing which is factual is instant relegation after being ten points ahead of West Ham and beating them 3-0.
Memories are fine and football is full of them but each of us can get several different of them out of the same match.
Winner write history and I'm afraid in my United lifetime we have won very little worth recording on the big stage.
Hope springs eternal though, although the sands of time are ruthless.

Some saddoes enjoy reading history books ,and argue about the definition of achievement.Some lived it and enjoyed it. If you didn't ,you are not a Blade.

 

[JohnDenver]

One thing is certain, Colin divided the fans when he was our manager and he is still dividing the fans today, how refreshing for United to have a manager who has 99.9% of the fans behind him.

True. Fans don't really do complexity do they? I've always said Warnock was a very good manager for us whilst being a bellend at the same time. The two things are mutually exclusive.

If Clough achieves what Warnock did for us whilst maintaining his current levels of honesty and decency he'll be far fonder remembered.

 

[United Aren't Back.]

No it didn’t.

It took him 2.5 years to build the side that reached a League Cup Semi-Final, FA Cup Final, 3rd in the Championship and the Play-off Final.

When that side was broken up, it took him another 2 years to build the promotion-winning side.

Dec 1999 to May 2006 (5 and a half years)

Sorry to be a pain but he never reached an FA cup final.Dec 99 to May 2006 is 6 and a half years.

 

[United Aren't Back.]

1999 to May 2006=7 years what ever way you look at it.

6.5 actually.

 

[Zanzibar]

Some saddoes enjoy reading history books ,and argue about the definition of achievement.Some lived it and enjoyed it. If you didn't ,you are not a Blade.

And some saddos enjoy their own exploits.
I'll put my years of supporting United against yours...any day.
But I reckon I'm just a supporter serving his time...nothing special as you obviously believe you are.

 

[Greenwich Blade]

And some saddos enjoy their own exploits.
I'll put my years of supporting United against yours...any day.
But I reckon I'm just a supporter serving his time...nothing special as you obviously believe you are.

Depends on pain thresholds and whether you're a sadomasochist or not, enjoying ones own exploits.

With peace and love, with peace and love.

 

[Bladesway]

Some saddoes enjoy reading history books ,and argue about the definition of achievement.Some lived it and enjoyed it. If you didn't ,you are not a Blade.

Being a blade is many things to many people. The sheer arrogance of your statement is cringeworthy.

 

[sitwell]

And some saddos enjoy their own exploits.
I'll put my years of supporting United against yours...any day.
But I reckon I'm just a supporter serving his time...nothing special as you obviously believe you are.

See I don't see it as serving my time, I actually enjoy supporting utd and dont feel the need to slag off someone who gave me some great times at every available opportunity.

 

[Zanzibar]

See I don't see it as serving my time, I actually enjoy supporting utd and dont feel the need to slag off someone who gave me some great times at every available opportunity.

You see you have it wrong again.
Until you came along the subject was being kicked about by people with differing reasons and points of view.
As usual, you as with most of your posts, slag off the poster...it never fails for you whatever site you are on.
Everyone knows you are a mate of Warnock. It rules out your comments because of conflict of interest.

 

[sitwell]

You see you have it wrong again.
Until you came along the subject was being kicked about by people with differing reasons and points of view.
As usual, you as with most of your posts, slag off the poster...it never fails for you whatever site you are on.
Everyone knows you are a mate of Warnock. It rules out your comments because of conflict of interest.

Ha quality ,I have met Warnock once ,and if that qualifies him as mate I have millions. As for other sites ,I don't post or even visit any others.
Anyway your not a mate of Warnock so that rules out your comments because of conflict of interest

I like Warnock because he was very good for the team I support ,he gaves us 30 k gates ,premiership football ,semi finals ,play off finals ,great players ,a great youth set up ,homegrown players ,promotions ,why shouldn't I like him ?

 

[Zanzibar]

Ha quality ,I have met Warnock once ,and if that qualifies him as mate I have millions. As for other sites ,I don't post or even visit any others.
Anyway your not a mate of Warnock so that rules out your comments because of conflict of interest

I like Warnock because he was very good for the team I support ,he gaves us 30 k gates ,premiership football ,semi finals ,play off finals ,great players ,a great youth set up ,homegrown players ,promotions ,why shouldn't I like him ?

You have every reason to like him if you wish....just respect those who do not.

John Harris did much better than Warnock by the way, but I don't slag others who do not mention him.
All of the things mentioned ala Warnock were bettered by him...apart from the academy of course...he didn't seem to need one.

 

[sitwell]

You have every reason to like him if you wish....just respect those who do not.

John Harris did much better than Warnock by the way, but I don't slag others who do not mention him.
All of the things mentioned ala Warnock were bettered by him...apart from the academy of course...he didn't seem to need one.

Its you who is slagging people off ,I loved John Harris btw ,but while you are banging on about achievements can you tell me his ?