We need to get a spine

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DronnieBlade said:
3:4:1:2 would help in this regard.

Of this I have NOOOO doubt and would also benefit the team as a whole.

It’s time to revert back IMHO.

UTB

I guess you could go 3:4:2:1 also.
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Respectfully I disagree. I think the same problems as last season would persist and we would barely score. If we go back to 3412/3421 we pretty much resign ourselves to only having 3 players with any attacking quality. We had 4 on yesterday and couldn’t finish anything. 3412 would rely on stevens and baldock creating which I just can’t bear.
robbiez666 said:
I don't think Bash is the answer, sadly. Unless we go to a back 3. I think time has caught up with him.
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Honestly would play him over fleck in midfield. I think bash drives forward much better, is more physical, better at defending and at least offers a bit more consistency than fleck. He might lack a bit of technical quality in comparison but I’d personally take that trade off
 

McGoaldrick said:
Respectfully I disagree. I think the same problems as last season would persist and we would barely score. If we go back to 3412/3421 we pretty much resign ourselves to only having 3 players with any attacking quality. We had 4 on yesterday and couldn’t finish anything. 3412 would rely on stevens and baldock creating which I just can’t bear.

Honestly would play him over fleck in midfield. I think bash drives forward much better, is more physical, better at defending and at least offers a bit more consistency than fleck. He might lack a bit of technical quality in comparison but I’d personally take that trade off
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The 3 at the back does rely more in an offensive sense on the 2 wing backs. Of course it does.

But I also disagree with you in that both Baldock and Stevens can not add to what we currently have and see from them as wing backs rather than full backs.

Its not necessarily about DIRECT supply in to the danger areas from these positions. More so about overloading wide areas that can create opportunities to cross OR to come inside and be narrow if this is the optimum thing to do in certain situations.

UTB
 
pedro said:
please help me on this one
Fulham and West Brom they came down with us they suffered with the covid closed door syndrome as we did but all i seem to hear is SUFC mental stability how being relegated still hurts et al
Was it not the same for the other two,who also changed Managers,Fulham who had to let go numerous loan players
What are we doing differently?To be so far away from them?
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Possibly that they’ve been through this several times already. Fulham have been relegated 3 times in 8 seasons and have done a couple of transitional seasons in the championship. Similar for west brom. Probably just a bit more know-how and experience at the club and within the players (johnstone, bartley, livermore etc at wba) and maybe reassurance that they will actually bounce back
 
FriethBlade said:
He is and neither were/are big enough.. Morgan was a hard man no doubt about it but he wasnt that big and when he played against proper strong centre forwards like Daruus Henderson he got pushed around...a lot.

Said it many times we need a 6ft 4in brick shithouse centre half who cleans everything and everybody out. Get one if those and a box to box aggressive central midfielder and a lot of our woes will be solved.
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And Slav will want him to play total football out from the back.
 
Stretch said:
Agree with every word bar that statement.

Billy runs his nuts off every time he plays. He harries and tackles out of possession, he leads the line, holds the ball and brings others into play. Did you also miss him clearing one off the line recently?

Of course he wants to score more than anything (name me a striker who doesn't) but he is also a proper team player.
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What I should have said is that Billy only cares about his own game. He 100% focused on it and that's good, he's a striker. Not much good for a captain though.
 
This squad is just too ‘nice’, we need some players who intimidate the opposition and can get people wound up. Doesn’t even need to be in size, just personality. You’d think given how long we’ve spent in the lower leagues that we would have got one or two in this mould.
 
McGoaldrick said:
Possibly that they’ve been through this several times already. Fulham have been relegated 3 times in 8 seasons and have done a couple of transitional seasons in the championship. Similar for west brom. Probably just a bit more know-how and experience at the club and within the players (johnstone, bartley, livermore etc at wba) and maybe reassurance that they will actually bounce back
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I think our problem is that our usual period of transition in recent times has been 12 years!
 
We do need a big strong Championship centre back and a tough tackler in midfield to protect the defence a bit better. This midfielder must be able to play football though, I am not calling for some chopper to be signed.

This should give us a better base on which to play our attacking football (which at times, has been very good under Slav).
 
robbiez666 said:
We look fancy and lively going forward but we consistently fail to take chances and finish off games. We were great for 55 minutes and then poor. When things aren't going our way we need players who can galvanise us. Drive us forward. We don't really have any.

We have a soft underbelly and there's no leadership on the pitch.

Norwood and Fleck give nothing in terms of leadership in the middle. Egan is little better.

Pointless having Billy as a captain as Billy only cares about scoring.

We need some steel. We need some big personalities. We need people being loud on the pitch. Talking. Supporting.
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Yes, I was really hoping Hourihane was going to be the answer...But I was sadly mistaken.
 
I’ve had this theory for the past 3 years….even when we were challenging for Europe.
We have very average individuals who play to a set system that they’ve practices and played in every match for 2 years.

Anyone remember Basham playing as a centre back or midfielder in league 1? He was very average at that level.
Remember the Coventry fans saying Fleck is good but they said he’s upper league 1 level.
Remember Brentford fans saying Egan is at best….average Championship level.
Remember Norwood wasn’t exactly a regular in the Championship and was always dumped when his team gained promotion.

However for us….they all turned into great players.
However their great performances were never on an individual brilliance level…it was all about how effective they were within our team structure/ tactics.

Now we’re playing a different system….my theory is some of our players are being found out.
They are good at playing simple possession based passing football…but are all short on quality.
 
Sheffsteel said:
I’ve had this theory for the past 3 years….even when we were challenging for Europe.
We have very average individuals who play to a set system that they’ve practices and played in every match for 2 years.

Anyone remember Basham playing as a centre back or midfielder in league 1? He was very average at that level.
Remember the Coventry fans saying Fleck is good but they said he’s upper league 1 level.
Remember Brentford fans saying Egan is at best….average Championship level.
Remember Norwood wasn’t exactly a regular in the Championship and was always dumped when his team gained promotion.

However for us….they all turned into great players.
However their great performances were never on an individual brilliance level…it was all about how effective they were within our team structure/ tactics.

Now we’re playing a different system….my theory is some of our players are being found out.
They are good at playing simple possession based passing football…but are all short on quality.
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I think this is it, they aren’t bad players but I think we get blinded by the fact they had an exceptional season in the Prem under a particular system & therefore assume they all belong there. Most are probably Championship level at best.

Like most, I thought we’d make a better crack of it this season but we would have been delighted to be an average Championship side during those years in League One. We need patience.
 
Sheffsteel said:
I’ve had this theory for the past 3 years….even when we were challenging for Europe.
We have very average individuals who play to a set system that they’ve practices and played in every match for 2 years.

Anyone remember Basham playing as a centre back or midfielder in league 1? He was very average at that level.
Remember the Coventry fans saying Fleck is good but they said he’s upper league 1 level.
Remember Brentford fans saying Egan is at best….average Championship level.
Remember Norwood wasn’t exactly a regular in the Championship and was always dumped when his team gained promotion.

However for us….they all turned into great players.
However their great performances were never on an individual brilliance level…it was all about how effective they were within our team structure/ tactics.

Now we’re playing a different system….my theory is some of our players are being found out.
They are good at playing simple possession based passing football…but are all short on quality.
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I agree but would also add that teams know how to effectively play against that system now.
The main problem is that we haven't bought any players that improve the team since we were promoted. Slav is in a difficult position working with players gone past their peak. Players who have lost form. Players who have continual injury problems and of course a couple of players that cost big money but are crap.
 
Nagima said:
I agree but would also add that teams know how to effectively play against that system now.
The main problem is that we haven't bought any players that improve the team since we were promoted. Slav is in a difficult position working with players gone past their peak. Players who have lost form. Players who have continual injury problems and of course a couple of players that cost big money but are crap.
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And this is the worry, I think with time and backing Slav will get it right, but can’t see it happening. Also doubt he came into the role expecting a rebuild of this size, will he want the challenge?
 
Sheffsteel said:
I’ve had this theory for the past 3 years….even when we were challenging for Europe.
We have very average individuals who play to a set system that they’ve practices and played in every match for 2 years.

Anyone remember Basham playing as a centre back or midfielder in league 1? He was very average at that level.
Remember the Coventry fans saying Fleck is good but they said he’s upper league 1 level.
Remember Brentford fans saying Egan is at best….average Championship level.
Remember Norwood wasn’t exactly a regular in the Championship and was always dumped when his team gained promotion.

However for us….they all turned into great players.
However their great performances were never on an individual brilliance level…it was all about how effective they were within our team structure/ tactics.

Now we’re playing a different system….my theory is some of our players are being found out.
They are good at playing simple possession based passing football…but are all short on quality.
Click to expand...

Spot on. We had a system. They played it day in day out for years. They were great in that system because they knew their role back to front. They knew at any time during any stage of a game what they should be doing. Where to stand. Where to run.

Not one player has come in since promotion and been able to be successful in that system because the system doesn't work unless everyone plays well and it's impossible to play well individually in the system unless you know it back to front. Anyone not knowing where they should be for a second leaves a gap. Causes a problem.

Almost all the players who took us up are average championship players in any other system. Look at Duffy, for instance. Did nothing much, outside of a few spells, before he came to us and did nothing after.

They're playing to their ability as footballers at the moment.
 

Blade.com said:
“ Drive us forward”, exactly, but someone will have to explain to the players what that is. The way we are playing at the moment is too slow, too predictable and too many short passes. No one runs through the gaps and no one plays a ball through the line ( Stoke game not included).
We make it too easy for teams to get 10 men behind the ball and unfortunately the players ain’t good enough to unlock a 10 man defence.
They then get sucked in , then find themselves out of position and struggling to get back, then hey presto another “ Worldy” hits the back of the net.
Anyone remember the last time we broke out and within 3 passes , bang a goal? .
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Did you not see toothpaste play in N'Daiye yesterday with a perfect through ball as he was running through, missed it but exactly what your saying we don't do.
 
Sheffsteel said:
I’ve had this theory for the past 3 years….even when we were challenging for Europe.
We have very average individuals who play to a set system that they’ve practices and played in every match for 2 years.

Anyone remember Basham playing as a centre back or midfielder in league 1? He was very average at that level.
Remember the Coventry fans saying Fleck is good but they said he’s upper league 1 level.
Remember Brentford fans saying Egan is at best….average Championship level.
Remember Norwood wasn’t exactly a regular in the Championship and was always dumped when his team gained promotion.

However for us….they all turned into great players.
However their great performances were never on an individual brilliance level…it was all about how effective they were within our team structure/ tactics.

Now we’re playing a different system….my theory is some of our players are being found out.
They are good at playing simple possession based passing football…but are all short on quality.
Click to expand...
Yes we were definitely the sum of our parts.
 
Danblade said:
And this is the worry, I think with time and backing Slav will get it right, but can’t see it happening. Also doubt he came into the role expecting a rebuild of this size, will he want the challenge?
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I think the key word is backing...the board need to do some wheeling and dealing to create sum funds that Slav can use to rebuild. If he feels that this isn't coming then he will be off and we will be in an even worse position.
 
First and foremost, Slav needs to get working on ensuring that we are hard to beat. Stop the sloppy goals, tighten up to the counter attacks, get some shape, get some discipline, get organised. Act like we ought to dictate games. Turn defeats into draws.

Then, build from there.

Millwall, Peterborough and Blackpool shouldn't be happening.
 
We need a decent championship spine next season. I really don't care who leaves from the current squad. And bog off with the young/potential/resale player for every signing we make 😴

GK Freddie Woodman
CB Joe Worrall
CM Alan Browne
ST Kieffer Moore.
 
Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou said:
We need a decent championship spine next season. I really don't care who leaves from the current squad. And bog off with the young/potential/resale player for every signing we make 😴

GK Freddie Woodman
CB Joe Worrall
CM Alan Browne
ST Kieffer Moore.
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We certainly need some steel adding.

I find it laughable how many opposing fans still talk about our physicality.

At times we're absolutely powder puff.
 
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