We are Oliver Norwood

[Tarqs]

I agree looking at individual sites, can be misleading but looking at averages overall can give you a pretty good idea.

Might try and get some averages up later today

Not really, theyre highly geared towards key contributions. Goals, assists etc.

Also passes... even if they're 2 3 4 yards and unprogressive they count positively.

Hence stat padder lundstram

 

[Tarqs]

Just add, Norwood has been very good for us this season but as always when majority of play goes through a particular player, they are prone to lapses in concentration.

 

[pommpey]

I can't deny he still has momentary lapses in concentration and coughs it up in dangerous areas but more often than not we are able to get away with it at this level and his positive output is far outweighing the negative at this moment in time.

The second part of that sentence disqualifies the first. He is, admittedly, slightly in the black this season but I measure his performances on how many times I have to say 'Fuck's sake, Norwood!' in a match. Last game he put two fucking outstanding passes in to create direct chances, which gets a 'quality pass!' comment from me. But get him between the opposition penalty area and centre circle receiving the ball on his tod and my nipsy tightens a bit. If its Sander, they aren't getting the ball off him. If it's Norwood, they smell blood.

I think Carlton Blade makes a good point though. We look a more fluid side this season and he has more passing options and better cover in behind. Other players are stepping up and it's helping him. He suddenly seems more confident in possession.

Maybe so, but don't you think his propensity to Hollywood every time he receives the ball from Egan has dropped by at least 45% since the beginning of the season? People know what he's up to. And if he can't thread a ground pass or simply hang onto the ball whilst gaining ten or twenty metres into their half, then what can he do?

As for the statistics, I don't pay too much attention to the subjective stuff - e.g scores / 10, but I would assume the 'most interceptions, tackles, chances created' etc. are all tangible and accurately measured.

But what actually is measured? As Tarqs rightly says, they don't measure fuck ups. They also measure the tippy tappy non productive stuff between him and six other players which gets us nowhere up the pitch. Ten passes which end up back at square one might tick the stattos boxes and harden the cocks of the Norwood fanclub when it comes to the 'look at the stats' statements, but he's on one goal and three assists this season. Over six seasons now I doubt his true productivity - assists and goals is much of the impressive stuff. Couple that to games over that period where he has simply been cancelled out and you don't have much to go on. I'm optimistic he'll be 'okay' for us this season but let's face it, when we were staring down the gaping, flaccid sphincter of relegation, everyone was chipping in that players such as he would be fucking revolutionary in this league. Well, I hate to jizz on people's fishcakes but it took him until well into Hecky's rein to settle and start shitting tiffany cufflinks. Didn't score a great deal or drive the team up the pitch but he simply started to do his fucking job, at last.

For midfielders in the division he always seems to be either top, or in the top 5.

Well, for someone who doesn't take much notice of subjective scores, you are quoting a subjective score, right there me old.

pommpey

 

[CaptainMorgans]

The second part of that sentence disqualifies the first. He is, admittedly, slightly in the black this season but I measure his performances on how many times I have to say 'Fuck's sake, Norwood!' in a match. Last game he put two fucking outstanding passes in to create direct chances, which gets a 'quality pass!' comment from me. But get him between the opposition penalty area and centre circle receiving the ball on his tod and my nipsy tightens a bit. If its Sander, they aren't getting the ball off him. If it's Norwood, they smell blood.



Maybe so, but don't you think his propensity to Hollywood every time he receives the ball from Egan has dropped by at least 45% since the beginning of the season? People know what he's up to. And if he can't thread a ground pass or simply hang onto the ball whilst gaining ten or twenty metres into their half, then what can he do?



But what actually is measured? As Tarqs rightly says, they don't measure fuck ups. They also measure the tippy tappy non productive stuff between him and six other players which gets us nowhere up the pitch. Ten passes which end up back at square one might tick the stattos boxes and harden the cocks of the Norwood fanclub when it comes to the 'look at the stats' statements, but he's on one goal and three assists this season. Over six seasons now I doubt his true productivity - assists and goals is much of the impressive stuff. Couple that to games over that period where he has simply been cancelled out and you don't have much to go on. I'm optimistic he'll be 'okay' for us this season but let's face it, when we were staring down the gaping, flaccid sphincter of relegation, everyone was chipping in that players such as he would be fucking revolutionary in this league. Well, I hate to jizz on people's fishcakes but it took him until well into Hecky's rein to settle and start shitting tiffany cufflinks. Didn't score a great deal or drive the team up the pitch but he simply started to do his fucking job, at last.



Well, for someone who doesn't take much notice of subjective scores, you are quoting a subjective score, right there me old.

pommpey

The second part does not "disqualify" the first.
I acknowledge he makes mistakes but then go on to say that his positive contributions outweigh them. I'm trying to provide some balance to the argument.
You seemingly agree with the sentiment by admitting he is "slightly in the black."

As for "they don't measure fuck ups," you're correct -- to an extent.
For instance, I agree that it would be interesting to see how many big chances are conceded through Norwood turnovers of possession.
However, they do measure pass completion rates, for which he often scores highly.

Your last paragraph is just nonsense.
He regularly scores Top 5 for midfielders in easily measurable data sets such as - pass completion, chances created, tackles and interceptions made.
They're not subjective figures... as I pointed out.

Odd that you would critique the use of subjective scoring though, given it's what you've become known for on the forum.

 

[Houston_Blade]

He's been superb this season for me, he's started providing a screen for the defence much deeper than he did previously and as a result we haven't seen many oppo midfielders running away from him towards our goal. He gets a toe in a lot more than I'd noticed previously.

He'll do something daft in a game, like a 'no look' pass straight to one of their players but he always wants the ball.

 

[coolasanidiot]

He's been superb this season for me, he's started providing a screen for the defence much deeper than he did previously and as a result we haven't seen many oppo midfielders running away from him towards our goal. He gets a toe in a lot more than I'd noticed previously.

He'll do something daft in a game, like a 'no look' pass straight to one of their players but he always wants the ball.

Totally agree on every bit.

He is deffo the hub of everything we do.
The whole team use him when in trouble.
Pressing is better.
Tackling is good.
Always there.
He's shooting more.
Bit like Lunny you always always get a daft 2 minutes like you say.

 

[pommpey]

The second part does not "disqualify" the first.
I acknowledge he makes mistakes but then go on to say that his positive contributions outweigh them. I'm trying to provide some balance to the argument.
You seemingly agree with the sentiment by admitting he is "slightly in the black."

His positive contributions 'outweigh them'. What is the metric used to score that? As for 'balance', isn't this just countering negative opinion about him? He has owned this for nearly four seasons now

As for "they don't measure fuck ups," you're correct -- to an extent.
For instance, I agree that it would be interesting to see how many big chances are conceded through Norwood turnovers of possession.
However, they do measure pass completion rates, for which he often scores highly.

Pass completion is 'pass completion'. He receives the ball from Egan, passes it back (tick), gets it back, passes it to Anel (tick). Anel to George who progresses up the wing until faced, passes it to Norwood who passes it back to Egan (tick) who passes it to RND then to Norwood who finally passes (tick) it forward to Berge five metres away in the centre circle, back to goal who returns the pass. It is passed (tick) to Doyle coming in from midfield, and we are still in our own half yet Norwood has 'completed' five passes versus everyone else on one. And meanwhile McB and Brewster are thinking 'one day them cunts will get into their half and give us something to do'.

'Stats'

Your last paragraph is just nonsense.
He regularly scores Top 5 for midfielders in easily measurable data sets such as - pass completion, chances created, tackles and interceptions made.
They're not subjective figures... as I pointed out.

'Chances created'? You mean when the ball leaves his foot from a corner and hits the first man? Or when he whangs it long to a marked wingback who has to turn round and pass it backwards?

Odd that you would critique the use of subjective scoring though, given it's what you've become known for on the forum.

And I am acceptably challenged on those subjective marks sometimes with people who offer good reason and sometimes their own marks. What I am trying to point out is that the material which makes up these stats used don't suggest a great player, just someone who completes tasks. Anyone can work on a production line. You can make 'x' number of units and if the metric is 'make 'x' units' and you do so you might be employee of the month, regardless of what is in the delivery box. If your metric is 'make 'x' fully functional units' your kudos is sustainable. Over the years, and still to some extent recently, Norwood's contribution to 'goals' (the outcome) has been questionable. He can pass it about all he wants to his hearts content. But for overall effectiveness - which is where I disagree with so many evangelists on here - he is not the Nicky Butt, Mata, Kante, Micheal Brown people describe him as. Notwithstanding that, we have seen marginal improvements this season, which to be honest is not before time considering he was once a PL midfielder and now faces (on paper) lesser midfield challenges.

pommpey

 

[Roygbiv]

 

[Ldn_Rd_Blades]

 

[CaptainMorgans]

What statistics are you talking about here?

Whilst I don't deny there has been an observable uptick in his output this season, I don't see much in statistics to support your affirmation he's the luminary described. Sure, he rarely misses a game and rarely is injured but the reason he isn't MotM is that other performers, lately Anel, RND and N'Daiye are a couple of points above him. Late in his career he is unlikely to iron out that tendency to fuck things up in key areas and either transmit a pass or lose possession to switch us from an advanced attack into a desperate defend posture. Stats don't show that one. He's done it three times this season in the ten games we have played, which has no xFuckup metric to go by. He has also banged in a spectacular, but equally rare free kick which, over the past five seasons since he last scored from a dead ball is one in I'd say twenty attempts, many of them ending in the kop or BLUT

As ever, I am yet to be bought that we have turned a corner with him, and given his off/on outings will remain so until well into next year. I do hope we get the player we think he is out of him because when he arrived, he was very much the Coutts replacement we needed to play alongside Lundstram and Fleck and really made our midfield a force to be reckoned with

pommpey

Just in case the other two hadn't made it clear enough.

 

[Geordie Blade]

He is, admittedly, slightly in the black this season

Wow.