We’ve been worked out

[CornwallBlade]

I reckon our problems lie not only with the current squad and the impact of injuries. We really struggled after the resumption last season and I think that was because the rest were able to spend time working out how to beat us. Norwood was pressed remorselessly, forced deeper and deeper and can’t cope with it. I like him a lot but if he could still operate with that level of pressure he’d be called de Bruyne and worth £150m. The attacking threat we offered down the flanks was also stifled by teams playing much higher and stopping the momentum.
To be honest, I don’t know what the answer is but a good start though would be a return to the tempo and intensity on show last season - that at least demonstrates intent and unsettles the opposition. Trying to play from deep through long balls is at the root of our current position.
If we use the next three games to take the game to them I’ll be delighted- sure we might get stuffed but it could also be the catalyst to us getting some mojo back.

 

[bromtom]

Every team in the Premier League knew everything about us before we'd even kicked a ball last season. It's just a bit of football cliché to say a team has surprised everybody or has been found out.

We play a unique style but they have vast teams of people analysing everything to nullify that.

We are lacking intensity and belief though. That's the issue since project restart, and fitness issues/stamina/injuries.

 

[SwissBlade]

I read an article quoting Micah Richards and Danny Murphy saying we need to be more creative and we’ve been found out as we don’t have the overlapping centre halves...

JOC and Fleck are injured, Baldock and Stevens have made some poor decisions, lundstram is out of position and yet first half v Fulham we created a number of good chances...

We’re being creative, getting at teams but we’re not taking the chances we create

 

[CarlMcBlade]

I reckon our problems lie not only with the current squad and the impact of injuries. We really struggled after the resumption last season and I think that was because the rest were able to spend time working out how to beat us. Norwood was pressed remorselessly, forced deeper and deeper and can’t cope with it. I like him a lot but if he could still operate with that level of pressure he’d be called de Bruyne and worth £150m. The attacking threat we offered down the flanks was also stifled by teams playing much higher and stopping the momentum.
To be honest, I don’t know what the answer is but a good start though would be a return to the tempo and intensity on show last season - that at least demonstrates intent and unsettles the opposition. Trying to play from deep through long balls is at the root of our current position.
If we use the next three games to take the game to them I’ll be delighted- sure we might get stuffed but it could also be the catalyst to us getting some mojo back.

There is a misconception about the Prem that most of the teams just stroke the ball about for fun, keeping possession, waiting for an opening. I have found it to be the opposite. Most teams pattern of play is so direct (not long ball) and quick I don’t think we have the wit or speed of thought to cope with it. Even potential strugglers Fulham’s showed these same qualities in turning defence into meaningful attack in the blink of an eye. I’m sad to say they really made us look so pedestrian in the second half.

 

[S64 Blade]

Every team in the Premier League knew everything about us before we'd even kicked a ball last season. It's just a bit of football cliché to say a team has surprised everybody or has been found out.

We play a unique style but they have vast teams of people analysing everything to nullify that.

We are lacking intensity and belief though. That's the issue since project restart, and fitness issues/stamina/injuries.

Agreed. This ‘worked out’ and ‘teams have realised how you play’ rhetoric is largely nonsense. As if clubs with hundreds of millions of pounds at their disposal don’t employ analysts and scouts to watch our games.

 

[CornwallBlade]

Can’t agree, of course they employ analysts but we were fresh to the division and played with intensity and creative aggression. They finally worked out who to
target to switch us off. I simply don’t believe that Norwood, Stevens, Fleck, Lunny, Baldock and JOC all lost their attacking form due to lockdown. As for not scoring, let’s be honest, that was an issue when we were getting results- largely due to one goal being enough to win. Our goals against stat this season is actually quite encouraging but we just have to find a way to get the ball into dangerous areas with quality delivery. McBurnie had two class balls presented to him on Sunday by Basham. I thought the header he flashed across goal was a great effort, unfortunately he mistimed and the gilt edged one went off his shoulder. To be fair to him they’re so rare that I cut him some slack, he’ll be fine if he gets those kind of chances every game. The “loss of form” from those mentioned isn’t so simple, welcome to the PL boys, you’ll have to up your levels if you want to be a permanent fixture.

 

[CornwallBlade]

There is a misconception about the Prem that most of the teams just stroke the ball about for fun, keeping possession, waiting for an opening. I have found it to be the opposite. Most teams pattern of play is so direct (not long ball) and quick I don’t think we have the wit or speed of thought to cope with it. Even potential strugglers Fulham’s showed these same qualities in turning defence into meaningful attack in the blink of an eye. I’m sad to say they really made us look so pedestrian in the second half.

Totally agree with this. The ability to keep the ball and patiently pull defences out of shape to then hit decisive balls into dangerous areas is a great skill. There is another option and that’s raw ballspeed - it worked for us and Leicester, Man City and Liverpool all use when it suits. We don’t seem to have the confidence to play either way at the moment, get stuck in limbo between those styles and get picked off.

 

[Stannington Blade]

I agree with a lot of these posts. Not sure we have been "worked out". We could quite easily be on 10 points if we had taken chances at key points in games.

Watching sunday, a lot of big counters on us stemmed from us emptying central midfield. Berge, Bash, Baldock all down the right. Norwood joins in to hit a cross which is blocked or cleared and suddenly we have 30 odd yards between most of our players in their box and our remaining defenders. I remember this a few times last season but a lot this season. Something as small as that can come from trying to "force" it when things arent quite working.

Take those chances and we will be fine. Easier said than done but I have faith we will revert to type.

 

[CornwallBlade]

Every team in the Premier League knew everything about us before we'd even kicked a ball last season. It's just a bit of football cliché to say a team has surprised everybody or has been found out.

We play a unique style but they have vast teams of people analysing everything to nullify that.

We are lacking intensity and belief though. That's the issue since project restart, and fitness issues/stamina/injuries.

You’re right about belief but fitness/ stamina? how on earth can a PL team not have that?

 

[BobblesBlade]

Wilders gone a bit Mourinho like.
It went from attacking pressing play we all enjoyed to slow and boring.

 

[Large Mendonca]

It is scary how unfit we look. Compare and contrast the last 30 minutes of our game with Fulham to the way Leeds were pressing/harrying Wolves last night into injury time.

 

[SteveBlade]

You’re right about belief but fitness/ stamina? how on earth can a PL team not have that?

Every game it seems by the 70th minute everyone looks nackered.

It's either a fitness issue or more likely simply because everyone we play is much faster than us, so whilst Ademola Lookman was having a light stroll with the ball, barely breaking a sweat, our fuckers were running full pelt trying to keep up with him.

Or, even more simply, how we have about 12% possession each game, meaning that we're constantly chasing shadows.

 

[8lade]

When we are allowed to play our own game we do ok and we saw this against Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man Utd and Arsenal last season, I'm not saying we will always beat these teams but the performance is good. Where a team specifically sets up to stifle this play we don't have the players with the individual guile to do that special thing which can make a breakthrough. Hence when teams sit back just soak up our pressure and hit us on the counter the chance of us getting turned over is greater, games like Everton and Newcastle.
Obviously on top of that we have injuries to players such as O'Connell, Mousset both of whom you'd expect to get time on the pitch in every game and loss of form for Fleck and McBurnie; I was tempted to call it 'a perfect storm' but shan't because it can get much worse (as we saw when Lowe got injured).
I won't call our fitness out but when players are obviously spent they need replacing at that point not 10 minutes later and the right substitutions need to be made (I haven't watched any games live but this seems to be a complaint of many on this forum ie Berge was finished in the last match but stayed on, Burke was removed against Arsenal but was still full of running). Our style of play calls for players to put a lot of effort in so substitutions need to be to keep energy levels up not tactical.

 

[Snowflake]

There is a misconception about the Prem that most of the teams just stroke the ball about for fun, keeping possession, waiting for an opening. I have found it to be the opposite. Most teams pattern of play is so direct (not long ball) and quick I don’t think we have the wit or speed of thought to cope with it. Even potential strugglers Fulham’s showed these same qualities in turning defence into meaningful attack in the blink of an eye. I’m sad to say they really made us look so pedestrian in the second half.

A bit like Mousset against Chelsea when we almost got 4 ?

 

[CW7]

Given the chances we got into against Fulham, it's fair to assume that they haven't found us out yet. We looked incredible with Lowe and Stevens together.

 

[The Bear]

I read an article quoting Micah Richards and Danny Murphy saying we need to be more creative and we’ve been found out as we don’t have the overlapping centre halves...

JOC and Fleck are injured, Baldock and Stevens have made some poor decisions, lundstram is out of position and yet first half v Fulham we created a number of good chances...

We’re being creative, getting at teams but we’re not taking the chances we create

Actually they said that on MotD2. Just caught it by accident and that was their analysis.

 

[CornwallBlade]

I agree with a lot of these posts. Not sure we have been "worked out". We could quite easily be on 10 points if we had taken chances at key points in games.

Watching sunday, a lot of big counters on us stemmed from us emptying central midfield. Berge, Bash, Baldock all down the right. Norwood joins in to hit a cross which is blocked or cleared and suddenly we have 30 odd yards between most of our players in their box and our remaining defenders. I remember this a few times last season but a lot this season. Something as small as that can come from trying to "force" it when things arent quite working.

Take those chances and we will be fine. Easier said than done but I have faith we will revert to

When we are allowed to play our own game we do ok and we saw this against Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man Utd and Arsenal last season, I'm not saying we will always beat these teams but the performance is good. Where a team specifically sets up to stifle this play we don't have the players with the individual guile to do that special thing which can make a breakthrough. Hence when teams sit back just soak up our pressure and hit us on the counter the chance of us getting turned over is greater, games like Everton and Newcastle.
Obviously on top of that we have injuries to players such as O'Connell, Mousset both of whom you'd expect to get time on the pitch in every game and loss of form for Fleck and McBurnie; I was tempted to call it 'a perfect storm' but shan't because it can get much worse (as we saw when Lowe got injured).
I won't call our fitness out but when players are obviously spent they need replacing at that point not 10 minutes later and the right substitutions need to be made (I haven't watched any games live but this seems to be a complaint of many on this forum ie Berge was finished in the last match but stayed on, Burke was removed against Arsenal but was still full of running). Our style of play calls for players to put a lot of effort in so substitutions need to be to keep energy levels up not tactical.

It was a noticeable feature of our team last season that we didn’t suffer many injuries. I remember posting that CW and his team should be congratulated for that as they obviously look after players well. The point you make is important - keeping players on when they are spent increases the risk of injury dramatically, all sports physiologists know that. Maybe we are being forced to push players harder due to the lack of talent on the bench? Hard to swallow that argument given the potential we bought, I’d like to see them get some time on the pitch even if only to protect Berge who, as you pointed out, was shot after 70 minutes.

 

[Stretch]

If we had been worked out Wilder and Knill would have changed the system.

They are not passive coaches.

 

[borg elite]

There may be an element of this but I don't think it's the main factor at all. It doesn't account for not starting games on the front foot and the lack of pressing and intensity. There's clearly more to it than being 'found out'.

 

[Bladeulike]

I am also not sure that being ‘found out’ is the issue at the moment. It’s going to sound like another cliche but without the ‘12th man’ of our support players seem to finding it difficult to adjust. As Wilder keeps pointing out, there’s a gulf in resources in the Prem between us an virtually every other team. The one thing we can match and even outstrip the rest of division is our fanbase that, without question, inspires and motivates both manager and players. However, there’s nothing we can do about that at the moment other than we don’t start carping negatively. Some of Wilder’s interviews lately are indicating that the criticism is getting to him and the team. We won’t survive on a victim mentality, we may survive on a ‘plucky underdog’ mentality that we have shown for the last four years. I’m not saying constructive discussion and observation from the fans isn’t anything but welcome and part and parcel of the game but posts such as ‘McShitty.....’ and, God forbid, questioning Wilder’s tenure are, frankly, a disgrace after the glory years we have enjoyed.

It seems glaringly obvious to me that in easing off on the slick, one touch passing with the overlapping wing backs has resulted in a treacle like midfield who seem unable to hold the ball for longer than a couple of seconds. Leeds, Arsenal and Fulham piled attack after attack because we lost it in possession or constantly gave it away without getting out of our own half. Berge may be the answer to moving the ball more sharply and effectively through the middle and maybe the addition of Brewster will create more options. Bogle and Lowe also look like promising signings but we have to accelerate their inclusion into the squad.

I bloody love this team and what they have achieved (as we all do). My optimism remains high,

 

[Tynemouth Blade]

I read an article quoting Micah Richards and Danny Murphy saying we need to be more creative and we’ve been found out as we don’t have the overlapping centre halves...

JOC and Fleck are injured, Baldock and Stevens have made some poor decisions, lundstram is out of position and yet first half v Fulham we created a number of good chances...

We’re being creative, getting at teams but we’re not taking the chances we create

but we’re not taking the chances we create

And that's the biggest issue!
Sunday was a prime example where we created chances but couldn't/didn't score.
Any half decent side would have easily got 3 against Fulham!

 

[Tarqs]

Given the chances we got into against Fulham, it's fair to assume that they haven't found us out yet. We looked incredible with Lowe and Stevens together.

Really?

We looked pretty poor the first 15 mins of the game.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

A bit like Mousset against Chelsea when we almost got 4 ?

Yeah has our style of play turned to shit because Mousset isn’t playing?

 

[INTERUNITED]

We haven't been found out. If that was the case, every Premier League team would be changing their tactics every 10 games. The problem for me lies purely with Jack O'Connell being injured. He is our most important player for the system we play. Without him, we don't attack down the left hand side, and the defence is seriously weakened (especially aerially). This was proved last season when he was out, and when he came back we looked a different side.

 

[Badger Blade]

There is a misconception about the Prem that most of the teams just stroke the ball about for fun, keeping possession, waiting for an opening. I have found it to be the opposite. Most teams pattern of play is so direct (not long ball) and quick I don’t think we have the wit or speed of thought to cope with it. Even potential strugglers Fulham’s showed these same qualities in turning defence into meaningful attack in the blink of an eye. I’m sad to say they really made us look so pedestrian in the second half.

That's it in a nutshell. It's 3 or 4 good passes and into the net, we take that many passes just to get a cross in at the moment and it's easy to defend when it's McBurnie vs 3 defenders who are set and waiting.
Last season we did it well in games like Palace, Villa, Burnley, Brighton away to name a few where we scored goals moving the ball from back to front, to feet, quickly.

Ponderous football gets you nowhere, the England team is testament to that

 

[Tynemouth Blade]

Really?

We looked pretty poor the first 15 mins of the game.

I disagree, the first 10 minutes.......





And the last 45!!!!!

 

[CarlMcBlade]

When the big clubs are out of form for a prolonged period of time the watching media and general football public tend to identify this as being a “club in transition.”
Alas club’s like us tend to be dubs as “strugglers.” Like I’ve said in previous posts, we have become a victim of our own success. Our rapid rise up the league’s with largely the same team has been immense......But sadly we’ve probably hit that brink wall. We desperately needed new additions to the team, but it makes Chris Wilders task a lot harder when the new boys are having to learn a complex system on the job.

 

[JJBlade]

Teams don't work each other out

They either play well or they don't

A certain amount of tactics can be used, but if a team plays well tactics won't stop them from playing well.

We haven't played well since lockdown and that's why we're not winning

 

[LudlamBlade]

JoC missing is a huge, seemingly irreplaceable factor in all of this.

Without him bombing forward down the left, it restricts what Stevens can do. It also limits Norwood because it's easier for teams to focus on him as they haven't got a double pointed JoC/Bash sword pushing at them all the time.

When JoC/Bash are both allowed to go forward to create the overload, it allows Norwood time and space to play those killer balls that he's known for. He hasn't changed his game, he's always needed time and space...he's just always had it before thanks to JoC/Fleck.

Obviously J Rob can't do what JoC does, barely anyone can. Without both OCB's pushing forward, the system becomes one sided and flawed, and you get situations like the Fulham game where we have Berge, Baldock and Bash all dragged down the right wing trying to force the issue.

I think it's also why Fleck was struggling post-restart, having to do more defensively because JoC wasn't there to cover him as often.

The reality is that JoC is vital to Wilderball and he's not looking like being back anytime soon. If CWAK don't see Stevens, Ampadu or an academy prospect as being capable of competently playing JoC's role in the 3-5-2 system, then it has to be time for a change of the system, surely.

In Wilder We Trust absolutely every day, just expressing my opinion!

Good thing is that now we've got three games where nowt really matters as we're expecting to get bashed anyway. Chance to experiment maybe?

 

[SwissBlade]

And that's the biggest issue!
Sunday was a prime example where we created chances but couldn't/didn't score.
Any half decent side would have easily got 3 against Fulham!

Agreed, I don’t mind the criticism of the way we play but creativity is fairly high, but we’re just not clinical at the moment

Over recent years we’ve had Billy, Mousse and now Brewster all brought in for their ability to get in to goal scoring positions and their records all suggest that they are finishers. So it’s not like we haven’t tried to address the issue

The problem lies in the other Strikers, Didsy and McBurnie are extremely hardworking, can score goals, get into the positions but for whatever reason, don’t take their chances as frequently.

Burke, possibly lies somewhere between.

I know Robinson doesn’t overlap the same as JOC and Bash, but let’s not forget that these two players are so well drilled in the role that there are virtually no other clubs in the world that play this way. I was hoping Lowe would’ve had more time v Fulham to see how he played the role, but again it didn’t work out because of his injury. We know that Stevens plays the LCB slot and can cover it, so hopefully that’s the way we can attempt to go. I’m not too worried about the overlaps.

What we’ve probably not done as well so far (since lockdown) is have players arriving late. Lundstram and Fleck got so much success last season as teams picked up the overlapping centre halves that we generated another route into goal scoring positions. Berge and Lunny are both adapting to new ways of playing,

Stevens and Baldock haven’t quite been themselves yet this season and I think it’s a combination of all these things which is seeing us struggle.