Warnock main story in to.orrow's DIly Telegraph

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Sothall_Blade said:
Did this player give Warnock money?
Was he not picked if he didn't? Or picked if he did?
How many in the squad were giving Warnock money at a time? All of them?
How did the transactions take place and where?
Up to 20 players at a time queueing outside his office door with their brown envelopes?
Or maybe 20 separate clandestine meetings in underground car parks scattered around the city?
Neither method seems very practical.
Maybe they just set up a direct debit but then there would be some proof.
Still happening in Puncheon's era apparently but nobody has managed to capture anything on tape or mobile phone.
Click to expand...

This player was asked by Warnock to give him money and NW said he'd make sure he comes on as a sub to earn his appearance bonus but the player refused, no money ever passed hands.
However he was often not brought on as sub.

Whereas other players were sometimes brought on with 1 minute to go.
Could be coincednace, could be sour grapes, it's just rumours with no proof.
 
Sheffsteel said:
This player was asked by Warnock to give him money and NW said he'd make sure he comes on as a sub to earn his appearance bonus but the player refused, no money ever passed hands.
However he was often not brought on as sub.

Whereas other players were sometimes brought on with 1 minute to go.
Could be coincednace, could be sour grapes, it's just rumours with no proof.
Click to expand...
So if he was at it, maybe his assistant picked up a few tricks? Might explain Nosworthy, France etc
 
Sheffsteel said:
This player was asked by Warnock to give him money and NW said he'd make sure he comes on as a sub to earn his appearance bonus but the player refused, no money ever passed hands.
However he was often not brought on as sub.

Whereas other players were sometimes brought on with 1 minute to go.
Could be coincednace, could be sour grapes, it's just rumours with no proof.
Click to expand...

Keith Gillespie talks about this in his autobiography. It's basically his only positive comment on Blackwell. He explains that Blackwell would bring people on late so they got paid extra by the club. For the avoidance of doubt, Gillespie did not suggest Blackwell took a cut.
 
Wow, manager helps 'struggling' footballers to run Blades wage bill up.
If I was McCabe and heard that was going on the dismissal would've been unceremonious, not too dissimilar to the way it happened.
 
A very good friend of mine who played under NW always tells me about the clubs Preseason trips to Devon/ Cornwall and the game they played every year on the way down with a couple of non league sides..... Warnock always pocketed a nice fat brown envelope for turning up with his first team for a match.. Handing out signed shirts, footballs etc all to be auctioned off by the club at a later date.
If anyone who knows football in any shape or form is in the least surprised this kind of thing goes on they must be mad. The life styles that players live, the money slushing about, it just breeds greed and more greed...... All the undisclosed transfer deals, whats that all about? its just all cloak and dagger......
But its where our game is, too much money and too much greed. Bit sad but true.
 
I always get a bit jumpy on these threads as it was a corruption thread and the names I posted on it that got me a ban on Bladesmad.

But, look at the final day result from a season in the 1990s, now this result did not effect any relegation issues (and that's as big a clue as I am willing to give) but I was told personally by an ex player, something of a club legend, that certain players on both sides colluded in fixing the result and made a killing at the bookies.
 
Chali 2na said:
Not wishing to start an argument, but how would an ex-manager of a club display loyalty to said club?
Click to expand...

He displayed his disloyalty to us whilst he was still here. Having a hissy fit when the club wouldn't give him a contract extension in November 2005. McCabe quite rightly told him they would negotiate an extension once the agreed aim of promotion had been achieved. Warnock demanded one immediately after just 3 months into the season with the job not yet done.

He touted for the Portsmouth job after Alain Perrin had been sacked and our results suffered as a result during the dispute. He didn't give a toss about derailing his "beloved Blades" promotion bid.

And the pointed remarks he's made since with regard to his subsequent clubs having "the best bunch of fans in the league" (especially Leeds) haven't helped either.
 
8lade said:
Wow, manager helps 'struggling' footballers to run Blades wage bill up.
If I was McCabe and heard that was going on the dismissal would've been unceremonious, not too dissimilar to the way it happened.
Click to expand...

Warm
 
metalblade said:
Why mention it at all then ? I'm struggling to think of any youth players who went onto better things at that time.
Click to expand...


Possibly because it adds to the discussion? I could be wrong though and i'm sure you will let me know if I am.

When I say 'went on to better things' it's probably more accurate to say better than we have it now.
 
Tyler Durden said:
He displayed his disloyalty to us whilst he was still here. Having a hissy fit when the club wouldn't give him a contract extension in November 2005. McCabe quite rightly told him they would negotiate an extension once the agreed aim of promotion had been achieved. Warnock demanded one immediately after just 3 months into the season with the job not yet done.

He touted for the Portsmouth job after Alain Perrin had been sacked and our results suffered as a result during the dispute. He didn't give a toss about derailing his "beloved Blades" promotion bid.

And the pointed remarks he's made since with regard to his subsequent clubs having "the best bunch of fans in the league" (especially Leeds) haven't helped either.
Click to expand...
Who cares ,look at the football ,that's what I go for ,not for tittle tattle about who did this who did that ,I don't give a toss as long as Ive got a good team to watch. And for what its worth ,he is one of the nicest ,kindest people I have met involved in football. Do you expect him to say that Leeds or Palace or whoevers fans are wank compared to Sheff Utds ? He was treated like shit by McCabe who thought his love for Utd meant he could get away with everything on the cheap ,the man brought millions into the club and his legacy is that we have kept crowds of close to 20k since he was here compared to the 9k before he came.
 
LJBlade said:
Back when Warnock was our manager at least two of our youth players were told they wouldn't have a chance at the club unless they signed on with a certain agent, a relative of Warnock's I believe. Both ended up leaving and have since gone on to better things.
Click to expand...

Devil's Advocate:- Encouraging youth players to sign for a trusted agent rather than one who may possibly rip the player off and cause trouble for the club
 



Sheffsteel said:
This player was asked by Warnock to give him money and NW said he'd make sure he comes on as a sub to earn his appearance bonus but the player refused, no money ever passed hands.
However he was often not brought on as sub.

Whereas other players were sometimes brought on with 1 minute to go.
Could be coincednace, could be sour grapes, it's just rumours with no proof.
Click to expand...

Devil's Advocate - There are many tactical/footballing reasons for making late substitutions:-

a) Wasting time as the ref never actually adds the full delay on. Especially if the player coming off gives it the full "limping to the sideline, wearily acknowledging the fan's applause" routine
b) It breaks up any momentum that the opposition are building up
c) A player might be brought on late to provide extra height at set pieces, pace for break aways or just energy for closing down
d) The player coming off might actually be injured and/or exhausted
e) Giving fans the chance to acknowledge a good performance from the departing player with a standing ovation

Even if none of the above applies, maybe the player is pestering the manager to come on as he knows he will get a bonus.
Maybe it's in the club's interests to keep the player happy by obliging?

If a club ever felt it was a problem, they could easily put a stop to it by tweaking the bonus/appearance money system.
 
Last edited:
larkymasher said:
A very good friend of mine who played under NW always tells me about the clubs Preseason trips to Devon/ Cornwall and the game they played every year on the way down with a couple of non league sides..... Warnock always pocketed a nice fat brown envelope for turning up with his first team for a match.. Handing out signed shirts, footballs etc all to be auctioned off by the club at a later date.
If anyone who knows football in any shape or form is in the least surprised this kind of thing goes on they must be mad. The life styles that players live, the money slushing about, it just breeds greed and more greed...... All the undisclosed transfer deals, whats that all about? its just all cloak and dagger......
But its where our game is, too much money and too much greed. Bit sad but true.
Click to expand...

Devil's Advocate - A non-league club made money by virtue of playing United in a friendly paying cash out for the privilege.
They also bought signed shirts and footballs which they auctioned off to make extra money for their club.

Maybe our club knew this was happening and wanted to keep it off the books.
Where did our manager get all the signed shirts and footballs from without anyone official in the club finding out?
 
sitwell said:
Who cares ,look at the football ,that's what I go for ,not for tittle tattle about who did this who did that ,I don't give a toss as long as Ive got a good team to watch. And for what its worth ,he is one of the nicest ,kindest people I have met involved in football. Do you expect him to say that Leeds or Palace or whoevers fans are wank compared to Sheff Utds ? He was treated like shit by McCabe who thought his love for Utd meant he could get away with everything on the cheap ,the man brought millions into the club and his legacy is that we have kept crowds of close to 20k since he was here compared to the 9k before he came.
Click to expand...

OK, let's look at a hypothetical scenario.

When someone runs a successful courier business with say 100 fleet vehicles, let's say that they employ a fleet manager to lease an manage the fleet vehicles. The fleet manager thinks that the boss doesn't treat him very well so he strikes up a deal with the vehicle supplier to invoice the business an additional say 2% on each lease and then have 1% paid to himself in cash

The fleet manager was an acceptable employee in most other respects. Do you think the fleet manager is hard done to and quite within his rights, or a thief?
 
Sothall,

Totally agree. Could all be coincedence and of course there's no proof.
Warnock told him he would bring him on more often as sub but only if he split the appearance bonus.
Apparently it was said several times but in a jokey non serious fashion. NW could say it was a joke.
This player refused and didn't pay a penny. Also this player did make the odd subs appearance eventhough he didn't pay Warnock a penny. As I've said could be nothing.

I suppose one could produce some data regards the players that made the most subs appearances with
particular attention to those brought on with 1 minute to go but doubt anyone is that bothered?
 
Woodwaaard said:
OK, let's look at a hypothetical scenario.

When someone runs a successful courier business with say 100 fleet vehicles, let's say that they employ a fleet manager to lease an manage the fleet vehicles. The fleet manager thinks that the boss doesn't treat him very well so he strikes up a deal with the vehicle supplier to invoice the business an additional say 2% on each lease and then have 1% paid to himself in cash

The fleet manager was an acceptable employee in most other respects. Do you think the fleet manager is hard done to and quite within his rights, or a thief?
Click to expand...
If he is good at his job and bringing in more income to the business because of his dealings wouldn't be a problem for me. Everyone ,and I mean everyone tries to fiddle a bit out of work ,no matter how small ,I accept it in my business and rely a lot on trust ,but I know it goes on. If they are shit at the job and it costs the business money that's a different matter.
 
Sothall_Blade said:
Devil's Advocate - A non-league club made money by virtue of playing United in a friendly paying cash out for the privilege.
They also bought signed shirts and footballs which they auctioned off to make extra money for their club.

Maybe our club knew this was happening and wanted to keep it off the books.
Where did our manager get all the signed shirts and footballs from without anyone official in the club finding out?
Click to expand...
What i am saying is that this is what happens in football. Its all lads together, jobs for the boys etc etc...... and i fully understand that. It doesn't bother me in the slightest. Its just that with more money coming into the game the bungs and back handers get bigger and bigger.
 
Almost every manager now has a commission fee on transfers built into their contracts ,this doesn't rest easy with me to be honest as it encourages player movement but its a game of chance for the managers as they sell the best players at the risk of damaging the team and losing their job. The problem in all this is agents in my view.
 
sitwell said:
If he is good at his job and bringing in more income to the business because of his dealings wouldn't be a problem for me. Everyone ,and I mean everyone tries to fiddle a bit out of work ,no matter how small ,I accept it in my business and rely a lot on trust ,but I know it goes on. If they are shit at the job and it costs the business money that's a different matter.
Click to expand...

I accept that you're a successful businessman and congratulate you on your success
I note that you accept "fiddling" but "rely a lot on trust" which is a difficult concept for me to grasp
 
sitwell said:
If he is good at his job and bringing in more income to the business because of his dealings wouldn't be a problem for me. Everyone ,and I mean everyone tries to fiddle a bit out of work ,no matter how small ,I accept it in my business and rely a lot on trust ,but I know it goes on. If they are shit at the job and it costs the business money that's a different matter.
Click to expand...

Wow. There's a difference between taking a pencil out the stationery cupboard and what Woodwaaard describes.

Do you know how your staff are skimming?
 
Woodwaaard said:
I accept that you're a successful businessman and congratulate you on your success
I note that you accept "fiddling" but "rely a lot on trust" which is a difficult concept for me to grasp
Click to expand...
I accept that it will happen whether I rely on trust or not ,and I believe I will get better work and less 'fiddling' the more trust I share with my workers. If I find out then obviously I have to come down on them and sort it out. I don't even have trackers in my vans as I know when I was in their position the thought of being spied on at all hours would not work for me. All of my employees are long term now ,(not surprising mug , you might think) but I like to think the more trust you give them ,the more you get out of them and it works for me.
 
Tyler Durden said:
He displayed his disloyalty to us whilst he was still here. Having a hissy fit when the club wouldn't give him a contract extension in November 2005. McCabe quite rightly told him they would negotiate an extension once the agreed aim of promotion had been achieved. Warnock demanded one immediately after just 3 months into the season with the job not yet done.

He touted for the Portsmouth job after Alain Perrin had been sacked and our results suffered as a result during the dispute. He didn't give a toss about derailing his "beloved Blades" promotion bid.

And the pointed remarks he's made since with regard to his subsequent clubs having "the best bunch of fans in the league" (especially Leeds) haven't helped either.
Click to expand...

Fair enough.
 



If a club had one of the highest playing staff wage bills in its division and then under-performed for a number of years, if I was the owner of the club I'd be more than miffed to learn that not all of the playing staff wage bill was not being spent on playing staff and had therefore potentially compromised the remainder of my investment
 
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