Very little profit if any!

[siblade]

Is this what the courts said he had to buy from McCabe? Can someone explain to me why the club has to provide the money for this rather than the owner? Not having a dig at him, I genuinely don't know.

Because the owner owns the club, how it's spent is up to him and the board.

 

[Rudders]

It would save me a lot of reading time if all the "lets sell Berge for 50p" posts are in 1 thread only and not spread across loads of different threads that pretend to be about something else. TA!

 

[DI36O]

Because the owner owns the club, how it's spent is up to him and the board.

I mean it feels like he's used the football club to buy himself the football club

 

[SilkyBlade]

Norwich City made a grand total of £2m last season. Their operating profit before player trading and amortisation was £11m.

That's non-spending, hoard-the-PL-cash Norwich City.

Two million.

And somehow the cash bank balance has increased from £1.6M (2019) to £44M (2020)

 

[blade too long]

Well that's ok then

Wonder where the £30m is coming from in year 3, 4 and 5?

Don't forget Wednesday fans cryptonite

Parachute payments

“We have six clubs in the Championship receiving parachute payments which means on average they get £40m per club for 3 seasons ; the other 18 get £4.5m each.5 may 2020

 

[BushBlade]

I mean it feels like he's used the football club to buy himself the football club

That’s exactly what he’s done. It’s called a leveraged purchase. You borrow money to buy the club (or, in our case just the fixed assets but that’s semantics really) and use future income to pay off the debt.
It’s perfectly legal, Glazers bought Man U that way and I think ALK have done similar with Burnley.

PA owns the club. All of it. That means he can run it at break even, run it at a loss (providing he has the funds to do so) or run it to make a profit that he takes from the club. It’s entirely his choice because it’s a business, his business.

 

[SilkyBlade]

That’s exactly what he’s done. It’s called a leveraged purchase. You borrow money to buy the club (or, in our case just the fixed assets but that’s semantics really) and use future income to pay off the debt.
It’s perfectly legal, Glazers bought Man U that way and I think ALK have done similar with Burnley.

PA owns the club. All of it. That means he can run it at break even, run it at a loss (providing he has the funds to do so) or run it to make a profit that he takes from the club. It’s entirely his choice because it’s a business, his business.

I bet even the Prince can’t believe how well timed the acquisition was.....very clever lawyers, a bloody good manager and the guy has won the lottery.

 

[BushBlade]

I bet even the Prince can’t believe how well timed the acquisition was.....very clever lawyers, a bloody good manager and the guy has won the lottery.

I think it would’ve been a very different scenario if we hadn’t have got promoted when we did.

 

[Bennyand the Blades]

Let's hope his luck holds out......

 

[gordoncharles]

And somehow the cash bank balance has increased from £1.6M (2019) to £44M (2020)

Yes, because of an increase in creditors (Norwich owed £25m more to the tax man at the balance sheet date in 2020 than in 2019), and a £10m increase in loans.

Not being funny, but if you're going to comment and use the sarcastic icons, you need to show you understand what accounts say.

 

[Houston_Blade]

I'm prepared to be wrong on this but there is no way we will sell a coveted young midfielder with three years left on his contract for less then we paid 18 months ago. It's just not happening.

£30m+.

I’d love you to be right. I’m going on past performance. We’ve never had a player like this and a problem like selling a top class player. Will be interesting to see how we get on.

 

[Kenilworth]

Is this what the courts said he had to buy from McCabe? Can someone explain to me why the club has to provide the money for this rather than the owner? Not having a dig at him, I genuinely don't know.

I think that is a crux of what Wilder was most miffed about.
The fact that this has stopped the development at the pace he wanted to see and it making the job that much more difficult.

Prince wins court case and, with it, full control of the club but the terms of that win mean he has to buy out McCabe's ownership of the assets.
Prince no money to do so - without relying on the money the club has just generated from footballing success (lucky Prince).
Money that just would not have been there if it was not for Wilder and the success he brought to our club.
Prince uses funds from successful footballing activity to purchase (with a mortgage) the club assets.
Since that money is ring fenced it is not available to spend on improving the infrastructure.
Wilder is (IMO) correctly pissed off that the Prince has used the money to pay for the assets but is not willing to put in extra to improve and expand the infrastructure.
Wilder probably sees that as a separate issue from the budget that is used to purchase players.
Result is that club is £43m worse off because Prince has diverted those funds into paying for something he didn't own in the first place.

 

[Isaw Joeshaw]

That’s exactly what he’s done. It’s called a leveraged purchase. You borrow money to buy the club (or, in our case just the fixed assets but that’s semantics really) and use future income to pay off the debt.
It’s perfectly legal, Glazers bought Man U that way and I think ALK have done similar with Burnley.

PA owns the club. All of it. That means he can run it at break even, run it at a loss (providing he has the funds to do so) or run it to make a profit that he takes from the club. It’s entirely his choice because it’s a business, his business.

I read an article a couple of years ago which was deeply critical of the fact that this methodology was allowed in this country .

It pointed out that it was forbidden in American sport , saying that only 25% of the purchase price can be attached to the club by way of a debt . It went on to say that borrowing rate in such cases is often 2 or 3 times the going commercial rate since , as the buyers are not paying it off they often have a sweetheart deal with their banking chums .

It also pointed out that the purchased club is often further shafted by the new owners installing friends and family in highly paid jobs and paying themselves huge bonuses / dividends .

All of the above have been used to great effect by the Glazers who at the last count had syphoned over £500 million quid out of Man U . Compared to those charlatans , our Prince is a knight in shining armour .

Be careful what you wish for .

 

[BushBlade]

I read an article a couple of years ago which was deeply critical of the fact that this methodology was allowed in this country .

It pointed out that it was forbidden in American sport , saying that only 25% of the purchase price can be attached to the club by way of a debt . It went on to say that borrowing rate in such cases is often 2 or 3 times the going commercial rate since , as the buyers are not paying it off they often have a sweetheart deal with their banking chums .

It also pointed out that the purchased club is often further shafted by the new owners installing friends and family in highly paid jobs and paying themselves huge bonuses / dividends .

All of the above have been used to great effect by the Glazers who at the last count had syphoned over £500 million quid out of Man U . Compared to those charlatans , our Prince is a knight in shining armour .

Be careful what you wish for .

I’m not in favour of it, quite the opposite. I was just explaining it. Bottom line is PA would’ve had more money to spend on wages/transfers if he wasn’t using some of it to pay for the ground etc.

 

[Isaw Joeshaw]

I’m not in favour of it, quite the opposite. I was just explaining it. Bottom line is PA would’ve had more money to spend on wages/transfers if he wasn’t using some of it to pay for the ground etc.

I never thought for one moment that you were , and fully understood the motives behind your post .

 

[Sean Thornton]

I think that is a crux of what Wilder was most miffed about.
The fact that this has stopped the development at the pace he wanted to see and it making the job that much more difficult.

Prince wins court case and, with it, full control of the club but the terms of that win mean he has to buy out McCabe's ownership of the assets.
Prince no money to do so - without relying on the money the club has just generated from footballing success (lucky Prince).
Money that just would not have been there if it was not for Wilder and the success he brought to our club.
Prince uses funds from successful footballing activity to purchase (with a mortgage) the club assets.
Since that money is ring fenced it is not available to spend on improving the infrastructure.
Wilder is (IMO) correctly pissed off that the Prince has used the money to pay for the assets but is not willing to put in extra to improve and expand the infrastructure.
Wilder probably sees that as a separate issue from the budget that is used to purchase players.
Result is that club is £43m worse off because Prince has diverted those funds into paying for something he didn't own in the first place.

That was always the plan once promotion was assured. No one should be surprised, particularly CW who would know far more about what happens inside the club than anyone on here.

 

[Kenilworth]

That was always the plan once promotion was assured. No one should be surprised, particularly CW who would know far more about what happens inside the club than anyone on here.

Depends what assurances he had re investment in infrastructure.
If prince effectively pockets the money generated from football success (which is effectively what he has done by using it to pay off McCabe) then it's always going to lead to tension. Wilder (quite rightly IMO) will see it as the Prince benefiting from success only Wilder has achieved. It's been a relatively small cash sink prior to that.
But as Sheffield folk we are conditioned to accept mediocrity and a lack of ambition.

 

[Carlton Blade]

I think that is a crux of what Wilder was most miffed about.
The fact that this has stopped the development at the pace he wanted to see and it making the job that much more difficult.

Prince wins court case and, with it, full control of the club but the terms of that win mean he has to buy out McCabe's ownership of the assets.
Prince no money to do so - without relying on the money the club has just generated from footballing success (lucky Prince).
Money that just would not have been there if it was not for Wilder and the success he brought to our club.
Prince uses funds from successful footballing activity to purchase (with a mortgage) the club assets.
Since that money is ring fenced it is not available to spend on improving the infrastructure.
Wilder is (IMO) correctly pissed off that the Prince has used the money to pay for the assets but is not willing to put in extra to improve and expand the infrastructure.
Wilder probably sees that as a separate issue from the budget that is used to purchase players.
Result is that club is £43m worse off because Prince has diverted those funds into paying for something he didn't own in the first place.

As unfortunate as the situation is, the other option was a fully leveraged sale of the club to the people who bought Burnley. If McCabe had won I very much doubt the club would be in a healthier financial position.

And he can't put in extra money he doesn't have.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Depends what assurances he had re investment in infrastructure.
If prince effectively pockets the money generated from football success (which is effectively what he has done by using it to pay off McCabe) then it's always going to lead to tension. Wilder (quite rightly IMO) will see it as the Prince benefiting from success only Wilder has achieved. It's been a relatively small cash sink prior to that.
But as Sheffield folk we are conditioned to accept mediocrity and a lack of ambition.

Anyone expressing the opinion that blame/failure (or success) lies 100% with one person seems conditioned to a mediocre thought process.

If your criticism related to CW being let down in January then l could agree somewhat unfortunately that brings the poor management of the team and results into play, so easier to bang on about infrastructure rather than look at the bigger elephant in the room. The shocking decline on the pitch. Which wouldn’t be affected by shiny new dressing rooms at the training ground.

 

[bakeblade]

We won't get back more than we paid for with Berge, probably less in fact

We don't sell him then

 

[brewdogblade]

As an accountant, the concern I have is the club took out a loan to buy the ground and then another loan secured on future sky/parachute payments. That seems a lot of debt and not much investment from the owner. The next accounts will be interesting!

 

[I should coco]

As an accountant, the concern I have is the club took out a loan to buy the ground and then another loan secured on future sky/parachute payments. That seems a lot of debt and not much investment from the owner. The next accounts will be interesting!

Don't worry though, he's 'better than McCabe'.

The experts on here have decided it and they didn't even need to refer to any accounts.

 

[Bearlie]

We don't sell him then

If you think that will happen you don't understand modern day football or indeed the modern day footballer ,contracts mean the sum total of fuckall to them .

 

[blades78]

I mean it feels like he's used the football club to buy himself the football club

A few of the recent football clubs purchases have been achieved like this. Morally it's wrong, but someone told me that the first rule of business is not to use your own money to buy anything.

 

[Sean Thornton]

As an accountant, the concern I have is the club took out a loan to buy the ground and then another loan secured on future sky/parachute payments. That seems a lot of debt and not much investment from the owner. The next accounts will be interesting!

I think the funding facility is because the PL payments are staged. I understand there are other clubs doing this.

The accounts will be interesting, if only for the melt down on here.

 

[guancheblade]

I'm prepared to be wrong on this but there is no way we will sell a coveted young midfielder with three years left on his contract for less then we paid 18 months ago. It's just not happening.

£30m+.

You do know you support Sheffield United right?

 

[Houston_Blade]

I think the funding facility is because the PL payments are staged. I understand there are other clubs doing this.

The accounts will be interesting, if only for the melt down on here.

When you explain them just post a picture of a garden with lots of roses and no one will know any better.

Also, get your hammer and chisel out for when you have to explain the company structure.

 

[Sean Thornton]

When you explain them just post a picture of a garden with lots of roses and no one will know any better.

Also, get your hammer and chisel out for when you have to explain the company structure.

We appear to have a couple of new accountancy chappies on board so it would be a good initiation to the dark side of the board for them to provide the analysis.
Cruel maybe, but it will be entertaining..........

 

[gordoncharles]

I think the funding facility is because the PL payments are staged. I understand there are other clubs doing this.

The accounts will be interesting, if only for the melt down on here.

My guess is that our fans will be shocked by 2019/20, let alone whatever this year's are going to show.

#weersmunnehgun

 

[Sean Thornton]

My guess is that our fans will be shocked by 2019/20, let alone whatever this year's are going to show.

#weersmunnehgun

“Worse than Chansiri”