United's Finances... genuine question

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Red Hot Currie

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I'm an infrequent poster, a long time lurker on here and lifelong Blade (you can judge my age by my username!).

I'm genuinely baffled by our situation at the moment... not the football side of things - I think it's obvious that we just dont have enough quality in the squad at this level. For that reason I see no point hurling pelters at the players... over a full season most just aren't up to it at this level.

It's our 'financial' woes that genuinely perplex me. I'll be straight up... I know nothing of football finance (I can barely balance my own monthly budget)... but there are people who do genuinely understand it (maybe someone on here?). The following things just don't make sense to me;

1. We've been in the top league 3 out of 5 seasons. That means 3 x £160m (min)... plus parachute payments

2. We are told that we can't afford big signings. And we have made very few.. we basically got most of our money back on Berge and covered a chunk of McB and Brewster by selling our best asset to Marseille.

3. We don't pay big wages.... often a reason offered up as to why we don't make big signings.

4. We've had some success in spotting and developing upcoming talent... but compared to other clubs we have a stellar record of selling it for peanuts (and we dont re-invest whatever we get) The list is too painful to go into...!

Honest, genuine question..... where has all the money gone????? Given the above... how can we get promoted (twice in 5yrs) to the football financial promised land..... and seemingly be more skint and less competitive than ever???

The way we appear to be run financially just makes us embarrassing in terms of us just being utterly uncompetitive on the field.

I'd love someone who is qualified to forensically audit how our club is run financially and to explain why we appear to be in such a state.... when on the face of it seems like we shouldn't be.

I'm guess I'm asking that age old question we Blades fans ask... 'Weeers money gone???'
 

Knowing the dickheads who run our club, we’ve probably got £95 million in 2 pence pieces at the back of the club settees.
 
bertieblade said:
If you are a long time lurker the questions posed have already been answered.
as for asking for an audit, err we have one every year
Click to expand...
Sorry. I must have missed the answers. Or not understood them. Do I need to apologise for my lack of attention/uderstanding or for being a long time lurker who has the temerity to ask a question on here?

As for an annual audit.... I'd hazard a guess that most fans don't have the time or knowledge to really get into it? Hence why many clubs are successful in hiding their financial slight of hand... often to the huge detriment of the fans.

Not looking for a row Bert.... my question(s) is/are genuine.... and apologies in advance if I've taken your response se in the wrong spirit or created an unnecessary thread.

UTB
 
Yes you have created an unnecessary thread
good night good bless

as a quick aside kindly explain

“As for an annual audit.... I'd hazard a guess that most fans don't have the time or knowledge to really get into it? Hence why many clubs are successful in hiding their financial slight of hand... often to the huge detriment of the fans”

you imply that many clubs fiddle the books and get away with it?
 
Red Hot Currie said:
Sorry. I must have missed the answers. Or not understood them. Do I need to apologise for my lack of attention/uderstanding or for being a long time lurker who has the temerity to ask a question on here?

As for an annual audit.... I'd hazard a guess that most fans don't have the time or knowledge to really get into it? Hence why many clubs are successful in hiding their financial slight of hand... often to the huge detriment of the fans.

Not looking for a row Bert.... my question(s) is/are genuine.... and apologies in advance if I've taken your response se in the wrong spirit or created an unnecessary thread.

UTB
Click to expand...
Look at Companies House, it is all there
 
bertieblade said:
Yes you have created an unnecessary thread
good night good bless

as a quick aside kindly explain

“As for an annual audit.... I'd hazard a guess that most fans don't have the time or knowledge to really get into it? Hence why many clubs are successful in hiding their financial slight of hand... often to the huge detriment of the fans”

you imply that many clubs fiddle the
Click to expand...

bertieblade said:
Yes you have created an unnecessary thread
good night good bless

as a quick aside kindly explain

“As for an annual audit.... I'd hazard a guess that most fans don't have the time or knowledge to really get into it? Hence why many clubs are successful in hiding their financial slight of hand... often to the huge detriment of the fans”

you imply that many clubs fiddle the books and get away with it?
Click to expand...
Err... yes I think that they do. I'm not saying that's what is happening at BDTBL....but it has, self evidently, happened at other clubs. You don't have to look far for evidence of that.

Anyway... as I said - not looking for a row. I'm disappointed with our current situation on the field - as I'm sure that you are. But my questions about the way we are run and a club are/were genuine. Not saying there's anything untoward going on... but we got promoted to the richest league in the world and cried poverty....
 
Christ, bust his balls why don't you?

It's a genuine question, and a fair one.

I do understand finance and I'm sick of all the financial parsimony that comes out of the club. When we signed Berge I genuinely believed we had started acting like a bigger club. Since then, it's all been loans, freebies etc etc.

We limped through last season with no money for paint, fertilizer and with an embargo.

When we got promoted I at least expected us to have a go, but we sold our two better players as the season started, reinvested this money, but outside of this, didn't put a dent in the £100m.

I appreciate that there's wages and agents fees etc, but we apparently pay peanuts, so there should be a chunk of the £100m left imo.

Our final chance of regaining some dignity is in January, we need at least 6 new players imo as well as shipping some of the dress out. We've moved on one failed new signing, and signed 3 new players. One of these is on loan and ones a development player. Unless we do some unbelievable business in the next 20 hours, the ability to change the season will be over.

Personally I think the whole thing has been pathetic. Why get promoted if you're not going to even try? If the answer is the money, then where is this as it hasn't been spent on the first team.

I've been a big fan of the Prince, but he clearly can't compete at this level, and I think the original question of where has all the money gone and what are the aims of the club is a fair one.

I'm embarrassed by my own football club and that's simply not right.
 
Red Hot Currie said:
I'm an infrequent poster, a long time lurker on here and lifelong Blade (you can judge my age by my username!).

I'm genuinely baffled by our situation at the moment... not the football side of things - I think it's obvious that we just dont have enough quality in the squad at this level. For that reason I see no point hurling pelters at the players... over a full season most just aren't up to it at this level.

It's our 'financial' woes that genuinely perplex me. I'll be straight up... I know nothing of football finance (I can barely balance my own monthly budget)... but there are people who do genuinely understand it (maybe someone on here?). The following things just don't make sense to me;

1. We've been in the top league 3 out of 5 seasons. That means 3 x £160m (min)... plus parachute payments

2. We are told that we can't afford big signings. And we have made very few.. we basically got most of our money back on Berge and covered a chunk of McB and Brewster by selling our best asset to Marseille.

3. We don't pay big wages.... often a reason offered up as to why we don't make big signings.

4. We've had some success in spotting and developing upcoming talent... but compared to other clubs we have a stellar record of selling it for peanuts (and we dont re-invest whatever we get) The list is too painful to go into...!

Honest, genuine question..... where has all the money gone????? Given the above... how can we get promoted (twice in 5yrs) to the football financial promised land..... and seemingly be more skint and less competitive than ever???

The way we appear to be run financially just makes us embarrassing in terms of us just being utterly uncompetitive on the field.

I'd love someone who is qualified to forensically audit how our club is run financially and to explain why we appear to be in such a state.... when on the face of it seems like we shouldn't be.

I'm guess I'm asking that age old question we Blades fans ask... 'Weeers money gone???'
Click to expand...
I could write a long response and I’d waffle a bit, but the man here is Balham Blade with his spreadsheet breakdown, he did do an update on this with some projections, I’m sure he can link when he gets chance.

Post in thread 'In profit, impressively'
https://www.s24su.com/forum/threads/in-profit-impressively.90379/post-3806397

It’s a fair question though and I can see why people do genuinely ask “weerz munneh” given we are supposed to be in the richest league in the world. In short, the reason we aren’t ’loaded’ is because we spend almost all of the income on attempting to compete and we are still some way short of the mark.

Player wages & amortisation of contracts being the main 2 areas of spend for us, without an owner pumping 10s of £m in each year we simply can’t compete even with the Bournemouth’s and Palaces of the world.
 
Strange innit Luton seem to be able to compete at this level. Maybe that those running the club might just be fucking rubbish at it. Like the OP says 3 out of 5 seasons of Premier league TV money (well over £300m) plus parachute payments and we have fuck all to show for it other than a Dulux stadium rebuild.
 
metalblade said:
Strange innit Luton seem to be able to compete at this level. Maybe that those running the club might just be fucking rubbish at it. Like the OP says 3 out of 5 seasons of Premier league TV money (well over £300m) plus parachute payments and we have fuck all to show for it other than a Dulux stadium rebuild.
Click to expand...
I’d hazard a guess that Luton’s expenditure will be comparable to ours. They’ve had to do the ground improvements and get less ticket revenue than us.

The major difference between them and us is recruitment, the worst thing is that it’s a Blade working in their recruitment team.
 

Houston_Blade said:
I could write a long response and I’d waffle a bit, but the man here is Balham Blade with his spreadsheet breakdown, he did do an update on this with some projections, I’m sure he can link when he gets chance.

Post in thread 'In profit, impressively'
https://www.s24su.com/forum/threads/in-profit-impressively.90379/post-3806397

It’s a fair question though and I can see why people do genuinely ask “weerz munneh” given we are supposed to be in the richest league in the world. In short, the reason we aren’t ’loaded’ is because we spend almost all of the income on attempting to compete and we are still some way short of the mark.

Player wages & amortisation of contracts being the main 2 areas of spend for us, without an owner pumping 10s of £m in each year we simply can’t compete even with the Bournemouth’s and Palaces of the world.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the recommendation but DannyRotten is the expert now 😆
 
This season
Turnover 210 million

Expenditure
Wages 130 million
Other 100 million

Screwed next year.

For clarification on this use companies house

WWw, companieshousebollox.uk.orgy
 
Kev Gee said:
Isn't the answer pretty simple?
We've spent it all.
Click to expand...
On shite...look at this summers recruitment including loans where we've wasted wahes
Hamer: done OKish
Souza: jury is out but for 10m there must
have been better around
Slimane: jury is out but hardly been picked
Trusty: not good enough
Archer: not even guaranteed a start
Traore: joke
Thomas: joke
Larucci: not good enough
Davies: not been seen

That's 9 players and not one has been a resounding success and only 2 are first team regulars. With little money to spend you can't afford to have that strike rate.
 
Luton have less spending power than us, but have spent it wisely. Lots of good Championship players, young or in their prime. Hamer fits into that category, hopefully a few others achieve that next season.

The state of our squad isn't defensible. Compared to when we were on our way up, this is magnitudes worse with the same owner. We had our best players on long contracts with regular updates keeping them secured. A mix of youth and experience with loanees to add extra quality.
 
Reposting Norwich's finances as a decent example of a club that has yo-yo'd between the two leagues and try and run a sustainable self-financing business model. Their profitability shown as EBITDA before any transfers has evolved like this (I haven't added the latest period):

IMG_0451.jpeg


£7m of collective operating profits across 9 years including 4 PL stints in that time. Remove the first year in the table above and there are losses.

If you are in the PL you will generally be profitable although you don't get the £100m+ profit windfalls people like to talk about as your costs go up a lot, part automatically due to promotion clauses in contracts. If in the Championship most teams lose money so either need wealthy owners to fund loses or sell talented players.

This is a bit the problem you face if you do have very wealthy owners. Upon promotion do you gamble and spend big to try and stay up (might have worked for Forest, probably not for Burnley), or live more within your means so you can adjust easier to the Championship financially upon relegation.
 
The income earned from the PL is probably still paying the debts incurred I previous seasons. The Berg transfer money would be paid in stages.
Debt incurred while we were in the EFL resulted in some bills going unpaid. It could be repaying loans used to buy back the ground and property owned by MCabe,or outstanding transfer installments?
The Covid years were expensive playing with no gate money.
Running the club on a daily basis costs money.

Instead of giving Wilder bank Cheques to buy players, the club is now trying to act in a sustainable way. I am guessing that this is what led to the club being sanctioned last year? Not sure of all the details but it all adds up.
 
Easy to underestimate how much it costs to simply keep the lights on at Champ level. That, together with the funds needed to buy the ground back from McCabe, will account for vast portions of any income we got.

Probably safe to say we've been frugal this season, in part to pay for the debts incurred the last two seasons, and to keep us going for the next couple too.

When you have a look at the accounts it's easy to see why football clubs are considered financial black holes. Also important to note PA probably can't afford to run us as a moderately sized Champ club so it's little surprise he's been reluctant to splash out with a potential sale on the horizon.
 
Charlieblade said:
The income earned from the PL is probably still paying the debts incurred I previous seasons. The Berg transfer money would be paid in stages.
Debt incurred while we were in the EFL resulted in some bills going unpaid. It could be repaying loans used to buy back the ground and property owned by MCabe,or outstanding transfer installments?
The Covid years were expensive playing with no gate money.
Running the club on a daily basis costs money.

Instead of giving Wilder bank Cheques to buy players, the club is now trying to act in a sustainable way. I am guessing that this is what led to the club being sanctioned last year? Not sure of all the details but it all adds up.
Click to expand...


Where we are now stems from the expensive transfer fees paid by Wilder. CW isn’t the first to pay a lot for duds but that’s where much of the PL money has gone.

I understand the rest has gone on imaginary things like unicorns, wages. Maintenance and upkeep etc.
 
Houston_Blade said:
I’d hazard a guess that Luton’s expenditure will be comparable to ours. They’ve had to do the ground improvements and get less ticket revenue than us.

The major difference between them and us is recruitment, the worst thing is that it’s a Blade working in their recruitment team.
Click to expand...

For a Southern Based team in the Premier League their home ticket prices are very reasonable, I would even say cheap. Although Category is spelt wrong! - They have sold out for the vast majority of home games and also have a buy back scheme in place for Season ticket holders. If they do manage to stay up it will be all about Stage 2 and preparing for "Season 2" as they will need a good transfer window in the summer and more squad investment in depth.
1706699696051.png
 
Sean Thornton said:
Where we are now stems from the expensive transfer fees paid by Wilder. CW isn’t the first to pay a lot for duds but that’s where much of the PL money has gone.

I understand the rest has gone on imaginary things like unicorns, wages. Maintenance and upkeep etc.
Click to expand...
The guy asked a genuine question. Most people on here have not bothered to try an answer.
I don’t pretend to know everything, but he now has my guesstimate. For what it’s worth. 😊
 

Charlieblade said:
The guy asked a genuine question. Most people on here have not bothered to try an answer.
I don’t pretend to know everything, but he now has my guesstimate. For what it’s worth. 😊
Click to expand...
I agree. Said much the same on another thread. My cynicism is always aroused when supposed income is wildly overstated. In this case by around £40m per seaso. No one ever, ever understates it……
 
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