United borrow money from Emirates

[Trigger Blade]

We are F@#ked if we get relegated.
Its no different to what Chancer's done at Hillsborough.
We also have another loan against payment from Premier League from some Australian Bank.
We are already down 20-30 million on Premiership money because of Covid.
The Prince is skint.

All according to Porktalk.

We are Doomed We are Doomed i tell yer.

Apparently, if we get relegated (not when, but if, which is a subtle subconscious shift in their view) we’re fizzed.

 

[dublin 10 blade]

They don't even repay their loans!
( Co-op Bank are you listening?)

Or their tax and N.I co-op had to pay that for them as well 1.2 million I think before Mandrake the magician bought em for a £1 on court steps

 

[MobileBlade]

So if they have borrowed £50m over 5 years at 3% interest (Spuds have borrowed £175m at 0.5%) then the repayments are about £11.5m a year. Given we are now guaranteed Premier money for another 4 years, I genuinely can't see the problem. We will no doubt know the amount and terms when next accounts released at end of year.

 

[Isar]

The premiership clubs have some income to borrow against, the lost of gate receipts is clearly an impact to income, for Spurs the extra cost of a new stadium must be a burden.

For the clubs below the EPL it must be real struggle to balance the current debts.

 

[dingledog]

Don't Muslims object to paying interest? So is this interest free?

It will be interest free, but the arrangement fees and other add on fees will equate to about 3% interest rate. Its all semantics.

 

[JohnDenver]

It will be interest free, but the arrangement fees and other add on fees will equate to about 3% interest rate. Its all semantics.

Are you suggesting an omniscient God can be fooled by semantics?

 

[Harrisblade]

It was only a smallish plot of land which United custom built a small academy for young prospective footballers. I think it has also been used for young children to get coaching by professional coaches .
I dont think it has been fully utilized in recent years.

Used to go past it on the 52 bus when it was the waterworks ground.
If I remenber right, it was just a single pitch (but looked well kept) on top of a sort of plateau.

 

[YES Blade]

It will be interest free, but the arrangement fees and other add on fees will equate to about 3% interest rate. Its all semantics.

I remember seeing a TV programme about Brits living in Dubai and in order to get a car they didn't actually borrow any money they wrote out indiviual cheques which would be cashed each month e.g. something life 36 or 48 cheques when they got the car. The problem came when they lost their job and therefore risked the cheque bouncing, which I think meant jail time. So apparently you used to see many cars dumped at the airport where foreigners had basicially done a runner back home!

I'm sure some of the Middle East based Blades on here will know more about this type of thing than me.

 

[HVR]

Same argument that the 12k a year secretary makes when buying a Gucci handbag on the visa card. The other option is you live within your means but thats not the modern world is it.

Another way to look at it; the secretary has £3,000 debt on her Visa Card, and finds out she is losing her job next month. She is given £3,000 as redundancy, what would you advise? Pay off the £3,000 outright and end up with £0 in the bank, or transfer the balance to a 0% / 2% card and pay-off £30 each month until she finds another job? Sometimes it's just cash in the bank you need when things crop up unforeseen. So, we are paying a fee to keep hold of our cash, just like the secretary is paying £30 per month to hold onto her redundancy.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Just looked at the 5 parcels of land we've mortgaged - if the Enterprise Centre & the Hotel are leasehold , who is our landlord ? Kevin ?

I’m sure the leaseholds of those still have the club now effectively as the freeholder (or whichever company it is, BLL or otherwise, that is named as the freeholder). The owner of the club freehold is the landlord on the leaseholds.

 

[MobileBlade]

Just looked at the 5 parcels of land we've mortgaged - if the Enterprise Centre & the Hotel are leasehold , who is our landlord ? Kevin ?

If you pay land registry £3 for each of those title deed numbers you can find out.

 

[bromtom]

I’m sure the leaseholds of those still have the club now effectively as the freeholder (or whichever company it is, BLL or otherwise, that is named as the freeholder). The owner of the club freehold is the landlord on the leaseholds.

Didn't the statement when Kev started being mardy say that the ground was freeholds, and the Enterprise centre and hotel were long leaseholds? So maybe those were financed separately by other companies (Scarborough/not Scarborough) and so are leased to the club.

I don't understand it all really, hurts my brain, and that probably doesn't provide any clarity but there you go. I tried haha

 

[FriethBlade]

Well thats ok then...im totally reassured that our financially astute supporters 'see no problem with this'

The problem is that we are piling debt on the balance sheet irrespective of what the interest rate is! Debt has to be paid back at some point...unless u r the government of course where u just issue more of it to pay of any that is maturing.

Everyone is saying we've got x years of Premiership money coming in conveniently forgetting not only is this not guaranteed but if we get a second wave of the virus we will face another season wherwe our revenue is substantially lower than that budgeted for.

I guess the point is the Prince has nothing like the money needed to buy the properties and compete in the transfer market so has no choice. But please let's not pretend that adding 50m of debt to the balance sheet is a positive move!

 

[bromtom]

Well thats ok then...im totally reassured that our financially astute supporters 'see no problem with this'

The problem is that we are piling debt on the balance sheet irrespective of what the interest rate is! Debt has to be paid back at some point...unless u r the government of course where u just issue more of it to pay of any that is maturing.

Everyone is saying we've got x years of Premiership money coming in conveniently forgetting not only is this not guaranteed but if we get a second wave of the virus we will face another season wherwe our revenue is substantially lower than that budgeted for.

I guess the point is the Prince has nothing like the money needed to buy the properties and compete in the transfer market so has no choice. But please let's not pretend that adding 50m of debt to the balance sheet is a positive move!

Premier League income is guaranteed for the next 4 years via next season's money and parachute payments even if we go down.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Well thats ok then...im totally reassured that our financially astute supporters 'see no problem with this'

The problem is that we are piling debt on the balance sheet irrespective of what the interest rate is! Debt has to be paid back at some point...unless u r the government of course where u just issue more of it to pay of any that is maturing.

Everyone is saying we've got x years of Premiership money coming in conveniently forgetting not only is this not guaranteed but if we get a second wave of the virus we will face another season wherwe our revenue is substantially lower than that budgeted for.

I guess the point is the Prince has nothing like the money needed to buy the properties and compete in the transfer market so has no choice. But please let's not pretend that adding 50m of debt to the balance sheet is a positive move!

There’s also been an addition to the balance sheet of assets worth £50m or so. HRH doesn’t appear to have made any mistakes up to now despite being skint.

 

[Booker4]

We are F@#ked if we get relegated.
Its no different to what Chancer's done at Hillsborough.
We also have another loan against payment from Premier League from some Australian Bank.
We are already down 20-30 million on Premiership money because of Covid.
The Prince is skint.

All according to Porktalk.

We are Doomed We are Doomed i tell yer.

Are Wednesday fans really trying to make out we're in a similar position to them, or that we/re on the way to the mess they're currently in?! I think they need to focus on their own mess, a possible points deduction this week and potential relegation! Even if they stay up they're set for years of financial trouble in regards to FFP. Thy have virtually no salable assets, dwindling crowds who have turned on the chairman and a manager who has achieved very little.

We may have needed a loan but our income streams are looking very strong and we do have salable player assets, not that I want us to have to rely on them. We also have the best manager in the Premier League, possible exceptions from outside would only include Klopp and Pep, and I don't think any of us would swap Wilder for either of those two either!

I wish people would stop saying the Prince is skint! He's done pretty well for a guy who is "skint"! I would much rather an astute owner, which the Prince seems to be, than a very rich but naive one, again this brings me back to Wednesday ironically!

 

[bromtom]

Are Wednesday fans really trying to make out we're in a similar position to them, or that we/re on the way to the mess they're currently in?! I think they need to focus on their own mess, a possible points deduction this week and potential relegation! Even if they stay up they're set for years of financial trouble in regards to FFP. Thy have virtually no salable assets, dwindling crowds who have turned on the chairman and a manager who has achieved very little.

We may have needed a loan but our income streams are looking very strong and we do have salable player assets, not that I want us to have to rely on them. We also have the best manager in the Premier League, possible exceptions from outside would only include Klopp and Pep, and I don't think any of us would swap Wilder for either of those two either!

I wish people would stop saying the Prince is skint! He's done pretty well for a guy who is "skint"! I would much rather an astute owner, which the Prince seems to be, than a very rich but naive one, again this brings me back to Wednesday ironically!

Wednesday fans don't think you have money unless you're like Barry who won £10m on the National Lottery and bought a Lamborghini and a 6 bedroomed mini mansion with electric gates and stone lions outside.

Barry now has no money because he's pissed it up the wall.

Proper rich people are rich because they spend money only when necessary, and when they do, as little as possible and in the most beneficial way, that's how they stay rich and accumulate more wealth.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Premier League income is guaranteed for the next 4 years via next season's money and parachute payments even if we go down.

I actually think parachute payments may disappear as part of the coronavirus long term repercussions on football. And I think that would be a good thing for football as a whole – they’re not used as originally intended, and the funds would be better distributed to the rest of the EFL in my opinion.

 

[nickwr37]

We are F@#ked if we get relegated.
Its no different to what Chancer's done at Hillsborough.
We also have another loan against payment from Premier League from some Australian Bank.
We are already down 20-30 million on Premiership money because of Covid.
The Prince is skint.

All according to Porktalk.

We are Doomed We are Doomed i tell yer.

Reread the article published by my Club.Look at the 2019 accounts. I am not reposting links. Healthy position. Financially.

 

[nickwr37]

Loan secured against assets. Will be a low interest rate. 4 years secured payments. Not going down is the key to move onwards. I don't want a bump on this thread in 2027.

 

[Grizzly blade]

Borrow a chunk, but gain assets that in some regards are earning monies for the club and are of course off setting the loan.

Obviously it would have been better if the club had those sums sat there for the sole purpose of purchasing the assets. The point is, that the Prince was never going to buy them himself, these assets needed to be bought by the club in its company form, Thus increasing the value of the Princes shares!

So, club borrows against future revenue...which for the next four years should be enough to service the mortgage. If it starts to go shit creek, then the players are sold with the value to cover it. Which, realistically means all of those on premier league wages.
Berge, JOC, Fleck, Baldock, Egan....contracted to 2 years or more each...what shall we say...£80m the lot? Conservatively as well I would say!!

No need to panic.

 

[Niceguyeddie]

Surely the prince will be looking to.sell us eventually ? He's sitting on a goldmine isn't he
He's bought a football club for five million.quid and the property's on a mortgage to the club

Not sure how that would affect a sale but we had buyers lined up for well over a hundred million so he could cash in his chips and make a killing

 

[Harrisblade]

Wednesday fans don't think you have money unless you're like Barry who won £10m on the National Lottery and bought a Lamborghini and a 6 bedroomed mini mansion with electric gates and stone lions outside.

Barry now has no money because he's pissed it up the wall.

Proper rich people are rich because they spend money only when necessary, and when they do, as little as possible and in the most beneficial way, that's how they stay rich and accumulate more wealth.

You really shouldn't take the piss out of someone who has 'stone lions outside'

 

[Roygbiv]

I actually think parachute payments may disappear as part of the coronavirus long term repercussions on football. And I think that would be a good thing for football as a whole – they’re not used as originally intended, and the funds would be better distributed to the rest of the EFL in my opinion.

Won't Premier League clubs have to vote on parachute payments?

 

[Harry's Game]

Won't Premier League clubs have to vote on parachute payments?

Yep, I cant see anyone outside the “big six“ voting to scrap them, be like Turkeys voting for Xmas.

 

[tincan]

Haven't we borrowed from the Emirates bank, the same owner as Man city? If Samuels gets to hear about it we will be thrown out of Europe and wet shammers will be given our PL place...

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Won't Premier League clubs have to vote on parachute payments?

I'm not actually sure if it’s something that needs a club vote, or one that the PL board can simply decide.

 

[Carlton Blade]

I don't know why but I have to keep repeating myself, this is not something I am against and it is a necessity however it is not something to be gloried in either. A lot of people seem to be seeing this as a black and white issue, it is not. Sometimes I wonder if I've logged on to porktalk by mistake.

Spot on. While it's standard business practice to borrow against your assets it always comes with an element of risk.

It's not ideal, but it's not alarming either. And as long as the funds are used for capital purchases rather than general expenditure we shouldn't notice much difference. But all debt comes at a cost

 

[bromtom]

If they scrap parachute payments, it'll be a "in 2/3 seasons" thing to let people moan and get over it.

 

[Roygbiv]

I'm not actually sure if it’s something that needs a club vote, or one that the PL board can simply decide.

I'm not sure myself. I know the Liverpool chairman thinks they should be scrapped as he doesn't feel The Premier League should subside the EFL but I don't see many other voting against it.