United 0 Hull 3 - report/ratings

[Nah-then]

No full report. Sorry!

Not sure anyone wants to pour over the graniny details of a really bad night and one that may have shocked us in terms of the scoreline, to get hammered at home to Hull, but probably the result had been coming for a while.

The performances for a long time have been mediocre at best. We've scrapped and fought to some wins and beat a poor Norwich side comfortably but you sensed things have just caught up with us.

Tonight, we started slowly again. We are so slow out of the blocks and passive. Bad defending led to a decent strike but we had 80 mins to respond and the lack of tempo/urgency was not a good sign. We barely had any decent football in their half, no sustained pressure and despite lots of corners, never really looked like scoring. Yes, we made changes and of course the offside goal changes it if allowed to stand. However, we got the decisions in the week (could easily have been 2-0 v 10 men) so can't bleat too much about that. Even after that we had a while to get something but naively get done with pretty much their first attack of the second half and more dreadful defending.

After that it all looked ragged. We chucked forwards on but there was no real structure to our play and we never looked like coming back. The third at the end was another mess and summed up the night. I think many who trooped out in the pouring rain probably had that reality check that we are probably not going to keep pace with the top two sadly. Neither Burnley or Leeds lose 0-3 at home to Hull. They just don't but Hull would go to those places and probably defend but teams are realising now if you go at us, you can get through us and not worry about being countered as we lack the pace/runners to do that.

Credit to them. They scored three goals, attacked a fair bit when they could, fought for loose balls and defended relatively comfortably. It was worryingly easy for a side in the bottom 3 before the game. They won at a canter in the end. 3-0 flattered them but they were better than us in all the key aspects of the game that matter and deserved their win.

We are playing back foot at the moment and worryingly I have no idea what our style is? We are not really using the flanks, we don't go through the middle and nor do we get balls into the box. We seem to want to play good football but lack creativity, especially without Hamer, to really get through teams. It's odd but now our whole plan seems in tatters. The plan was to have a solid defence, keep it tight, nick a goal and see games out. It was working but the Souttar whole has completely changed that. We now look easy to get through. Teams are coming at us and seeing we are soft in midfield and defence. We are conceding but still struggling to create tons at the other end. Now teams are doing to us what we did to them. The form since Boxing Day and results has really dropped off. 3 defeats, 3 wins and a draw is more like mid table sort of fare. Sadly I see it being like this for a while unless we can somehow sort the defensive issues out (coming from a weak and porous midfield too). Hopefully Souza back and Choudhury will help but overall we look a long way off a top two side. Burnley and Leeds I did expect would pull away as they have far deeper squads. I think we did great to stay where we were but the lack of depth and creativity is now catching up with us. I'd have been delighted with playoffs at the start of the season considering all the changes but as we've been in the top 2 for a fair while, it is annoying if we do fall away even with the circumstances. It is frustrating as with a fit squad, particularly Souttar and Blaster, we may have stayed the course, despite not quite having the options Leeds and Burnley do.

Still for a the criticism, we are still in a decent position. If we can get players in the maybe we can go on a long winning run to sustain our chase for the top two? Centre half and right back are an absolute priority though. We will need to see an impact from our two expensive forwards though as they contributed nothing last night.


Cooper 5/10 - Three goals conceded. No chance really with any and was badly exposed but he's not looked as convincing last few weeks. Not helped by a weaker defence in front of him.

Gilchrist 2.5/10 - He's been really poor for a while now and if we had other options (Seriki keeps getting injured sadly) he'd be taken out. His mistake contributed to the first, not great on the second either and generally all over the place. His technique and touch is frighteningly bad for a player from Chelsea. I've said it most of the season but don't think he is good enough and is getting worse, not improving. Think others covered up his inefficiency before but now he stands out as a major weak link. Seems Kenny may come in and replace him if reports are correct?

McCallum 4/10 - Ran around a lot but achieved little. He flicked or helped a few on but defensively he seems to get in poor positions and like Gilchrist way too much room. He seems a lad that can come on and do a job for the last 20 mins in games but he is not a starter for a top team in my opinion.

Robinson 3/10 - Thoughg he was poor all night. He was snatching at clearances and culpable in quite a few of their chances. The 2nd was down to a poor attempt to clear from him. The difference in the defence since he replaced Souttar is clear. We have gone from being calm and water tight to panicky and teams getting through us too easily. Need an upgrade here quickly. If he plays most of the games and continues to start, we ain't going up (autos or playoffs) as harsh as that sounds.

Ahmedhodzic 5.5/10 - Our best defender again and at least tried to read things and come onto the ball but not helped by those around him at all. He also was a bit sloppy at marking bur their seems a real lack of leadership in that area suddenly.

Burrows 4/10 - Not a central midfielder and he does not have the pace really or physicality to make a difference in there and the game sort of passes him by. Although he was not much better when moved to his normal position.

Peck 4/10 - Games definitely caught up with him and looks out on his feet. We never really got a proper control of midfield and never had meaningful possession in there. His corners were absolutely wretched. 5 or 6 hot the first man but he kept taking them?

O'Hare 5/10 - Our best player of the starters, simply for the fact he at least got about a bit, won a few headers and had a couple of tame efforts. Blazed one over when should have done better. Struggled without his pal, Hamer.

Brereton Diaz 3/10 - Thought he looked way off it and like someone who has not played. His touch, control and link play was sub standard and after a few early moments, he became anonymous. I'd have moved him more central personally. Need to see a lot more involvement from him.

Brooks 2.5/10 - Thought he was so poor again. He looks so passive and almost scared and won't try and influence the game. He just looked like he was going through the motions. Had a few decent games around Xmas but been woeful last 3 he has started and was hooked off again. He has to do something - run around, press, help Gilchrist but his attacking output and inability to progress/carry the ball means it's a waste of a selection.



Cannon 3/10 - Not sure I can give a guy who barely touched the ball much more than I have. The only defence is he got no service or support at all. However, I still expect runs in behind, movement and work rate. I did not notice him the whole game and assumed he'd been subbed but looked up near the end and he was still on. One game and ridiculous to write him off as is a long term investment. I do worry though the amount we have spent when I have seen him before and not really seen what his strengths are. Like Brewster, he hits a ball well but Cannon also does not seem that quick, strong or good in the air- nor a runner? Praying Wilder has seen sonethjng to justify such a big outlay when needs in the team (CB/RB) seemed greater?

Subs

Souza 5.5/10 - Got about the pitch and tried to rally but it was a a bit of a mess at this point in terms if the line up and approach.

Campbell 6/10 - Looked lively for a spell at 0-1 and of course, could have had a goal. He runs behind and makes intelligent darts. Needs to start next week. When they got the 2nd, we sort of lost any hope or impetus so he became marginalised.

Brewster 6/10 - Actually did OK and more involved than Cannon and BBD. He won a few flicked headers, got involved and made the offside goal. Seemed to be dropping back into midfield a lot, but least he got involved and tried to get his foot on. Seemed odd to leave him out and throw two new lads in? I'm not his biggest fan but he'd done OK and made a difference in the week.

Rak Sayki 4/10 - Least did have a few pieces of involvement unlike Brooks. Ran down some blind alleys and a few poor crosses though. They doubled up on him and forced him back.

Wilder 2/10 - Got selection and set up all wrong. Burrows is not working in midfield. The two new strikers clearly weren't ready/fit and after talking about starting better, we concede, lose the battles and are up against it from the off. His changes did not really work mid game. We had no platform or structure from the off. Our press did not work and led to gaps. It all seemed a bit of a mess. Regardless of tactics and formation, the players do need to do the basics and win battles/compete and Hull wanted it more sadly.

Spot in

 

[Nah-then]

Spot on

 

[dn5 shaun]

I'm also in the minority then. He started the season quite well but has regressed quite badly since although I accept he's had injuries.
To me he seems to have an attitude problem and I get the impression he doesn't really want to be here. I've noticed Vini and Arblaster around the match day behind the scenes videos, but not Rak-Sakyi.
He really needs to get his head down and start to start to contribute for the remaining games.

Yes I agree, he seems as though he wants to be elsewhere

 

[John Street West Terrace]

I was 11/12 at the time and remember it well!

Haslam was given money to spend in the summer of 78 and he paid the best part of £400k for Finnieston (20 odd goals in Chelseas promotion season 2 years before), Matthews (a semi regular for Arsenal in D1) and Sabella (at £160k, the clubs record signing).

Edwards went to Hull for £60k to slightly balance the books. Finnieston would obviously take over from him and seemed a better bet. Hull were in D3 by the way, so it wasn't as if he was thought to be a big talent snapped up by a decent team. No one at the time thought his sale a big deal. It seemed obvious that replacing him with Finnieston was a positive move.

Everyone thought the club was showing real ambition and that there was a good chance of promotion. Unfortunately, Finnieston was also permanently injured, got only 4 goals and we went down.

Didn’t Haslam also sell Stainrod & Varadi .. 2 more if our young strikers who went on to being prolific scores like Edwards ?

 

[Stoney Blade]

Didn’t Haslam also sell Stainrod & Varadi .. 2 more if our young strikers who went on to being prolific scores like Edwards ?

Allegedly Haslam was getting a few quid for the transfers. Disastrous business. Sorry to hijack the thread….

 

[programmechap]

Didn’t Haslam also sell Stainrod & Varadi .. 2 more if our young strikers who went on to being prolific scores like Edwards ?

Yes, later on in the season, around Feb-Mar I think. Varadi to Everton and Stainrod to Oldham presumably to even up the purchases of Tibbott and MacPhail around the same time.

 

[Lane Ender]

No full report. Sorry!

Not sure anyone wants to pour over the graniny details of a really bad night and one that may have shocked us in terms of the scoreline, to get hammered at home to Hull, but probably the result had been coming for a while.

The performances for a long time have been mediocre at best. We've scrapped and fought to some wins and beat a poor Norwich side comfortably but you sensed things have just caught up with us.

Tonight, we started slowly again. We are so slow out of the blocks and passive. Bad defending led to a decent strike but we had 80 mins to respond and the lack of tempo/urgency was not a good sign. We barely had any decent football in their half, no sustained pressure and despite lots of corners, never really looked like scoring. Yes, we made changes and of course the offside goal changes it if allowed to stand. However, we got the decisions in the week (could easily have been 2-0 v 10 men) so can't bleat too much about that. Even after that we had a while to get something but naively get done with pretty much their first attack of the second half and more dreadful defending.

After that it all looked ragged. We chucked forwards on but there was no real structure to our play and we never looked like coming back. The third at the end was another mess and summed up the night. I think many who trooped out in the pouring rain probably had that reality check that we are probably not going to keep pace with the top two sadly. Neither Burnley or Leeds lose 0-3 at home to Hull. They just don't but Hull would go to those places and probably defend but teams are realising now if you go at us, you can get through us and not worry about being countered as we lack the pace/runners to do that.

Credit to them. They scored three goals, attacked a fair bit when they could, fought for loose balls and defended relatively comfortably. It was worryingly easy for a side in the bottom 3 before the game. They won at a canter in the end. 3-0 flattered them but they were better than us in all the key aspects of the game that matter and deserved their win.

We are playing back foot at the moment and worryingly I have no idea what our style is? We are not really using the flanks, we don't go through the middle and nor do we get balls into the box. We seem to want to play good football but lack creativity, especially without Hamer, to really get through teams. It's odd but now our whole plan seems in tatters. The plan was to have a solid defence, keep it tight, nick a goal and see games out. It was working but the Souttar whole has completely changed that. We now look easy to get through. Teams are coming at us and seeing we are soft in midfield and defence. We are conceding but still struggling to create tons at the other end. Now teams are doing to us what we did to them. The form since Boxing Day and results has really dropped off. 3 defeats, 3 wins and a draw is more like mid table sort of fare. Sadly I see it being like this for a while unless we can somehow sort the defensive issues out (coming from a weak and porous midfield too). Hopefully Souza back and Choudhury will help but overall we look a long way off a top two side. Burnley and Leeds I did expect would pull away as they have far deeper squads. I think we did great to stay where we were but the lack of depth and creativity is now catching up with us. I'd have been delighted with playoffs at the start of the season considering all the changes but as we've been in the top 2 for a fair while, it is annoying if we do fall away even with the circumstances. It is frustrating as with a fit squad, particularly Souttar and Blaster, we may have stayed the course, despite not quite having the options Leeds and Burnley do.

Still for a the criticism, we are still in a decent position. If we can get players in the maybe we can go on a long winning run to sustain our chase for the top two? Centre half and right back are an absolute priority though. We will need to see an impact from our two expensive forwards though as they contributed nothing last night.


Cooper 5/10 - Three goals conceded. No chance really with any and was badly exposed but he's not looked as convincing last few weeks. Not helped by a weaker defence in front of him.

Gilchrist 2.5/10 - He's been really poor for a while now and if we had other options (Seriki keeps getting injured sadly) he'd be taken out. His mistake contributed to the first, not great on the second either and generally all over the place. His technique and touch is frighteningly bad for a player from Chelsea. I've said it most of the season but don't think he is good enough and is getting worse, not improving. Think others covered up his inefficiency before but now he stands out as a major weak link. Seems Kenny may come in and replace him if reports are correct?

McCallum 4/10 - Ran around a lot but achieved little. He flicked or helped a few on but defensively he seems to get in poor positions and like Gilchrist way too much room. He seems a lad that can come on and do a job for the last 20 mins in games but he is not a starter for a top team in my opinion.

Robinson 3/10 - Thoughg he was poor all night. He was snatching at clearances and culpable in quite a few of their chances. The 2nd was down to a poor attempt to clear from him. The difference in the defence since he replaced Souttar is clear. We have gone from being calm and water tight to panicky and teams getting through us too easily. Need an upgrade here quickly. If he plays most of the games and continues to start, we ain't going up (autos or playoffs) as harsh as that sounds.

Ahmedhodzic 5.5/10 - Our best defender again and at least tried to read things and come onto the ball but not helped by those around him at all. He also was a bit sloppy at marking bur their seems a real lack of leadership in that area suddenly.

Burrows 4/10 - Not a central midfielder and he does not have the pace really or physicality to make a difference in there and the game sort of passes him by. Although he was not much better when moved to his normal position.

Peck 4/10 - Games definitely caught up with him and looks out on his feet. We never really got a proper control of midfield and never had meaningful possession in there. His corners were absolutely wretched. 5 or 6 hot the first man but he kept taking them?

O'Hare 5/10 - Our best player of the starters, simply for the fact he at least got about a bit, won a few headers and had a couple of tame efforts. Blazed one over when should have done better. Struggled without his pal, Hamer.

Brereton Diaz 3/10 - Thought he looked way off it and like someone who has not played. His touch, control and link play was sub standard and after a few early moments, he became anonymous. I'd have moved him more central personally. Need to see a lot more involvement from him.

Brooks 2.5/10 - Thought he was so poor again. He looks so passive and almost scared and won't try and influence the game. He just looked like he was going through the motions. Had a few decent games around Xmas but been woeful last 3 he has started and was hooked off again. He has to do something - run around, press, help Gilchrist but his attacking output and inability to progress/carry the ball means it's a waste of a selection.



Cannon 3/10 - Not sure I can give a guy who barely touched the ball much more than I have. The only defence is he got no service or support at all. However, I still expect runs in behind, movement and work rate. I did not notice him the whole game and assumed he'd been subbed but looked up near the end and he was still on. One game and ridiculous to write him off as is a long term investment. I do worry though the amount we have spent when I have seen him before and not really seen what his strengths are. Like Brewster, he hits a ball well but Cannon also does not seem that quick, strong or good in the air- nor a runner? Praying Wilder has seen sonethjng to justify such a big outlay when needs in the team (CB/RB) seemed greater?

Subs

Souza 5.5/10 - Got about the pitch and tried to rally but it was a a bit of a mess at this point in terms if the line up and approach.

Campbell 6/10 - Looked lively for a spell at 0-1 and of course, could have had a goal. He runs behind and makes intelligent darts. Needs to start next week. When they got the 2nd, we sort of lost any hope or impetus so he became marginalised.

Brewster 6/10 - Actually did OK and more involved than Cannon and BBD. He won a few flicked headers, got involved and made the offside goal. Seemed to be dropping back into midfield a lot, but least he got involved and tried to get his foot on. Seemed odd to leave him out and throw two new lads in? I'm not his biggest fan but he'd done OK and made a difference in the week.

Rak Sayki 4/10 - Least did have a few pieces of involvement unlike Brooks. Ran down some blind alleys and a few poor crosses though. They doubled up on him and forced him back.

Wilder 2/10 - Got selection and set up all wrong. Burrows is not working in midfield. The two new strikers clearly weren't ready/fit and after talking about starting better, we concede, lose the battles and are up against it from the off. His changes did not really work mid game. We had no platform or structure from the off. Our press did not work and led to gaps. It all seemed a bit of a mess. Regardless of tactics and formation, the players do need to do the basics and win battles/compete and Hull wanted it more sadly.

Down to Wilder this one

 

[Silent Blade]

Yes, later on in the season, around Feb-Mar I think. Varadi to Everton and Stainrod to Oldham presumably to even up the purchases of Tibbott and MacPhail around the same time.

MacPhail came in December 1978, Tibbot came on deadline day along with Rioch who stayed on for just 4 weeks rather than to the end of the season. Duggie Brown from Clydebank reserves joined us at end of February. We signed Aleksic on loan too but only played for the reserves

 

[Bladesince59]

Gilchrist score about 3 too many

 

[coaxingstar71]

The fact that I've only just read the report two days after the game says it all.
I think it's a bit early to be saying we have no plan or identity. Wilder has a habit of motivating the team into a reaction after a game like this and I expect we'll see one at Derby, hopefully with some new signings in defence and midfield.

However, I do think we'll struggle to keep in touch with Leeds and Burnley, regardless of who we sign.

 

[TJ blade]

So did Seles with 5 players out

Wilder, gets out thought a lot recently, his stubborn attitude, might cost him his job eventually.... stop this fucking tip tappy slow build up! We need to attack with more pace ffs!!

 

[TJ blade]

The fact that I've only just read the report two days after the game says it all.
I think it's a bit early to be saying we have no plan or identity. Wilder has a habit of motivating the team into a reaction after a game like this and I expect we'll see one at Derby, hopefully with some new signings in defence and midfield.

However, I do think we'll struggle to keep in touch with Leeds and Burnley, regardless of who we sign.

Derby's lost 6 on the bounce, 3 at home... they entertain us on Saturday.. oh fucking hell!! I've got a this horrible feeling!!.... its happening again dad

 

[jono_t2000]

Think I'm in a minority when I say Rak-Sakyi is gash, trips over his own feet or the ball more times than not. Has pace but never quite manages to take the ball with him. Seen as we don't have another out and out winger Wilder will have to keep persisting with him....won't he?

Or we could go 4-3-1-2

Play 2 up top which suits Cannons strengths and ditch the wingers..

Brooks isn't a winger, neither is Hamer and JRS has about 10 decent minutes per 90.

Souza, Choudhury and Hamer in midfield with Souza and Choudhury as the slightly more defensive two.

O'Hare as number 10

Campbell and Cannon up top.