We were playing 4-3-3
United 0 Fleetwood 2 - report (brief)
- Thread starter Deadbat
- Start date
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FredZeppelin
Active Member
We really weren't.
Sharp was isolated and neither Duffy or Scougal got near him in the second half.
Who did you see playing right side in this 'front 3'?
Scougall was supposed to be on the right. Easy to miss as he did fuck all.
Sheffsteel
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The positive is we had more possession, more shots off target, more shots on target and more corners.
Although got to admit 0-2 was a fair scoreline. Credit to Fleetwood.
Don't be downhearted though.
We have 4 good players ready to come in that will offer different tactical options.
So at least Wilder has some extra tools to work with.
Sheffsteel
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Disagree.
I don't think even the best defence in the PL could have stopped that first goal.
Some goals can't be stopped, it was a fluke, misplaced shot that went like to bullet direct to their man on the wing.
Well fuckin hell lads, that was utter shite. We had no clue how to break that team down. I was worried when I read they were 10 unbeaten. I was worried when I saw they were (typical league 1) big and fast. They came with a typical League 1 game plan, i.e. close us down quickly, get most of the team behind the ball, punt it forward on the break to fast, strong players.
McNulty - sorry, but that was a huge error, Lavery should have started. No idea what reason you would start someone who has hardy figured all season?
Jake Wright on the bench - errrr, seriously?
Our famed midfield three (Fleck, Duffy, Coutts) were not at the races, were no where near strong enough, fast enough, quick enough or clinical enough. All three seem to have an aversion to getting into the box, preferring to stall outside and lump a cross in that is dealt with by tall defenders. And why, oh why do we get sucked into "heading the ball tennis", with other teams? It only ends one way!
You can always tell when things are going badly because Billy starts to get tetchy, starts to lash out, and starts to hit everything from outside the box, because he knows that no one is going to give him service in the box.
Coutts took a couple of ankle kicks, not enough to leave the field with injury, but I am sure that the Fleetwood cloggers had been told to target him. With about 15 minutes to go, he took a heavy challenge, and then appeared to rant at the ref, I assume asking for some protection, after that, he never went anywhere near a tackle (not that he does much anyway).
Basham at least tackles! Problem is, when he ventures forward, he is leaving Coutts at the back to fill a gap, and Coutts doesn't like physical confrontation. At times, Basham had pushed forward, they broke and countered and they had three on two (JOC and EEL), and only their poor playing prevented an easy goal.
Their first goal, from where I was sitting, appeared to be an unmarked man running onto a loose ball that fell favorably. I think Moore maybe should have stopped it, but can see why others think not.
The second........well at least I know what EEL stands for now, Ethan Ebanks-Liability. He had a nightmare game, up there with Collins and McEveley in that respect. When he went up front at the end it was almost laughable. He would jump for a ball and already be on the way back down when the ball actually appeared, no spatial awareness, no idea how fast the ball was traveling, truly, truly shocking.
The worst thing about this is that it was all avoidable.
Put Jake Wright in the middle of a back three and he sees that ball crossing for their first goal and marshalls the troops into position. He gets in place for their second and either deals with the ball or gets it back to Simon Moore.
I have banged on, for a year or more, about us bringing in a big, strong, fast, hard midfield bastard, who gets the ball on the half way line, and take off, in a straight line, straight at goal, to at least break into the box, cause mayhem, maybe win a penalty, maybe bundle a ball over the line, maybe shoot and cause a save that lands at the feet or Sharp or Freeman who bury it at close range. We don't have that player in our line up, unless Jay O'Shea is that man?
And for everyone slagging off James Hanson, before he has even slipped a shirt on for us, I can almost guarantee that he would have scared their defence, given them things to panic about, been a massive threat in the air, a threat in the box. I remember pig fans saying to me, in our local, when they went up at our expense "you don't need this tippy-tappy side to side football to get our of league 1, you need big, hard twats who will get the ball over the line, no matter what, and stop it at the other end".
1 point from a possible nine, and that included the mighty Walsall and the mighty Gillingham.
Maybe in the cold light of day, tomorrow, I will reflect on this and think we still have a chance, but as it stands (for me at least), we are play offs fodder in the next few weeks (when others play their games in hand) and we might have to play Fleetwood again, with a lot more at stake.
As ever.......UTB.
Edit: I never even mentioned Scougall.......FFS.......
McNulty - sorry, but that was a huge error, Lavery should have started. No idea what reason you would start someone who has hardy figured all season?
Jake Wright on the bench - errrr, seriously?
Our famed midfield three (Fleck, Duffy, Coutts) were not at the races, were no where near strong enough, fast enough, quick enough or clinical enough. All three seem to have an aversion to getting into the box, preferring to stall outside and lump a cross in that is dealt with by tall defenders. And why, oh why do we get sucked into "heading the ball tennis", with other teams? It only ends one way!
You can always tell when things are going badly because Billy starts to get tetchy, starts to lash out, and starts to hit everything from outside the box, because he knows that no one is going to give him service in the box.
Coutts took a couple of ankle kicks, not enough to leave the field with injury, but I am sure that the Fleetwood cloggers had been told to target him. With about 15 minutes to go, he took a heavy challenge, and then appeared to rant at the ref, I assume asking for some protection, after that, he never went anywhere near a tackle (not that he does much anyway).
Basham at least tackles! Problem is, when he ventures forward, he is leaving Coutts at the back to fill a gap, and Coutts doesn't like physical confrontation. At times, Basham had pushed forward, they broke and countered and they had three on two (JOC and EEL), and only their poor playing prevented an easy goal.
Their first goal, from where I was sitting, appeared to be an unmarked man running onto a loose ball that fell favorably. I think Moore maybe should have stopped it, but can see why others think not.
The second........well at least I know what EEL stands for now, Ethan Ebanks-Liability. He had a nightmare game, up there with Collins and McEveley in that respect. When he went up front at the end it was almost laughable. He would jump for a ball and already be on the way back down when the ball actually appeared, no spatial awareness, no idea how fast the ball was traveling, truly, truly shocking.
The worst thing about this is that it was all avoidable.
Put Jake Wright in the middle of a back three and he sees that ball crossing for their first goal and marshalls the troops into position. He gets in place for their second and either deals with the ball or gets it back to Simon Moore.
I have banged on, for a year or more, about us bringing in a big, strong, fast, hard midfield bastard, who gets the ball on the half way line, and take off, in a straight line, straight at goal, to at least break into the box, cause mayhem, maybe win a penalty, maybe bundle a ball over the line, maybe shoot and cause a save that lands at the feet or Sharp or Freeman who bury it at close range. We don't have that player in our line up, unless Jay O'Shea is that man?
And for everyone slagging off James Hanson, before he has even slipped a shirt on for us, I can almost guarantee that he would have scared their defence, given them things to panic about, been a massive threat in the air, a threat in the box. I remember pig fans saying to me, in our local, when they went up at our expense "you don't need this tippy-tappy side to side football to get our of league 1, you need big, hard twats who will get the ball over the line, no matter what, and stop it at the other end".
1 point from a possible nine, and that included the mighty Walsall and the mighty Gillingham.
Maybe in the cold light of day, tomorrow, I will reflect on this and think we still have a chance, but as it stands (for me at least), we are play offs fodder in the next few weeks (when others play their games in hand) and we might have to play Fleetwood again, with a lot more at stake.
As ever.......UTB.
Edit: I never even mentioned Scougall.......FFS.......
super_pig
Well-Known Member
EEL .. the new brayford
Coutts.. slows down the play.. ours
lafferty.. sorry i don't get it
basham.. plays lots of positions apparently.. 5/10 in them all
mcnulty.. ffs
i knew we'd lost when i saw the line up. i think CW is smart enough to learn from this i expect BIG changes
some people were slagging done as 'runaround'.. we've done fuck all since he was moved .. coincidence?
Coutts.. slows down the play.. ours
lafferty.. sorry i don't get it
basham.. plays lots of positions apparently.. 5/10 in them all
mcnulty.. ffs
i knew we'd lost when i saw the line up. i think CW is smart enough to learn from this i expect BIG changes
some people were slagging done as 'runaround'.. we've done fuck all since he was moved .. coincidence?
Cyprus Blade
Active Member
Woeful fare tonight. Every single player was off the pace and none escape criticism.
EEL lacks the tactical ability and decision-making to play the central defender of a back three, Since he was switched there to accommodate Basham (at the expense of Wright) he has been truly awful. His passing tonight was dire and he spent most of the match trying to find a short sideways pass he was so bad. He was totally exposed tonight and thoroughly deserves the pasting he is being given. Basham also loses positional sense too easily. Neither should be on the team sheet for the next game.
They sussed how to play us and the space behind the wing backs was ruthlessly exploited, pulling our back three all over with the WB's being caught out of position repeatedly. Very fit and organised side Fleetwood and they should have won by more. Adkins revisited,
Up front McNulty was also awful - no movement, poor positioning, uninvolved and a total nonentity. Lavery has an awful first touch and I cannot see him ever amounting to much. If Sharp picks up a lengthy injury we will be in serious trouble I am sorry to say.
EEL lacks the tactical ability and decision-making to play the central defender of a back three, Since he was switched there to accommodate Basham (at the expense of Wright) he has been truly awful. His passing tonight was dire and he spent most of the match trying to find a short sideways pass he was so bad. He was totally exposed tonight and thoroughly deserves the pasting he is being given. Basham also loses positional sense too easily. Neither should be on the team sheet for the next game.
They sussed how to play us and the space behind the wing backs was ruthlessly exploited, pulling our back three all over with the WB's being caught out of position repeatedly. Very fit and organised side Fleetwood and they should have won by more. Adkins revisited,
Up front McNulty was also awful - no movement, poor positioning, uninvolved and a total nonentity. Lavery has an awful first touch and I cannot see him ever amounting to much. If Sharp picks up a lengthy injury we will be in serious trouble I am sorry to say.
South Bucks
Active Member
Deadbat, many thanks as always with the OP and having only seen the highlights it would appear the team that played quicker offensive football, they way its supposed to be played, won the match.
Particularly agree with your comments on Coutts and our midfield which seem the root cause of many our current problems to me plus Wilder's nutty team selections. Slow and ineffective going forward and when they lose the ball they are slow to get back and leave our back line terribly exposed to runners. If it was me I'd have Coutts in a taxi asap, adds nothing other than ineffective possession and is a defensive liability. Am pleased we've bought some more attack minded midfielders but we lack a hard tackling midfield destroyer to protect the defence.
Yep, our style worked against lower teams with no offensive capability but against those that have some we are easy meat because of the way we play and not just because players have off days.
Particularly agree with your comments on Coutts and our midfield which seem the root cause of many our current problems to me plus Wilder's nutty team selections. Slow and ineffective going forward and when they lose the ball they are slow to get back and leave our back line terribly exposed to runners. If it was me I'd have Coutts in a taxi asap, adds nothing other than ineffective possession and is a defensive liability. Am pleased we've bought some more attack minded midfielders but we lack a hard tackling midfield destroyer to protect the defence.
Yep, our style worked against lower teams with no offensive capability but against those that have some we are easy meat because of the way we play and not just because players have off days.
Good Pinch Of Snuff
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Let's be honest last night was like watching us under Adkins. To be fair we could have been down 3-0 by half time. EEL needs to be dropped next match. This is the Blades way in it. Never fucking easy.
we never turned up last night, lifeless shocking useless abject. Possibly The worst performance since Southend at home. Why on earth we kept Peristing with them Aireal balls that came to nothing everytime as were to either no one or fleetwood defence easily headed it away. We Hardly tested goalkeeper all night. He also caught everything from our horrendous crossing. i could see after 20 mins that we had keep the ball on the floor,
That before we talk about being our own worst enemy with the 4 goals that we handed opposition on a plate. In the last 2 games. I was trying to think during the game why has this team in short period of time become a shadow of the team i know.
That before we talk about being our own worst enemy with the 4 goals that we handed opposition on a plate. In the last 2 games. I was trying to think during the game why has this team in short period of time become a shadow of the team i know.
- Have they seen the finish line too early,
- Have the nerves/pressure got to them & their now thinking of achievement they could do
- Are they Playing within themselves, because of the pressure
Woodwardfan
Woodwardfan
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- #43
Never judge a new player on the first 10 games or so. They all find their level eventually and we'll not know what level Moore has until he has had the chance to regain his confidence a little. Same with EEL, he's playing a different role when Wright isn't alongside him and he's not up to it as yet.
I thought that it was a poor,poor performance by the manager and the players alike. The manager picked a team that included a cult figure at right back earlier in the season (EEL) out of position at at centre half instead of the best centre half in the club, Jake Wright (stats do not lie). EEL couldn't pass water or trap a bag of cement last night.
Laffety who gives the ball away at every opportunity. and forgets to defend and mark his man.
Coutts who will not play the ball forward unless he plays it back or sideways first slowing down our attacks to give ample time for opponents to retreat and take up defensive positions.
CW also brought on Matt Done for what was a lost cause with only about 3 minutes to go instead of giving Young Riley a run out.
Fleck was hampered last night after 2 really hefty challenges in the first few minutes so wasn't at his best.
Duffy worked hard but achieved nothing.
For me, only Billy Sharp earned his money last night managing to fire off a few good shots despite the close and physical attentions of their central defenders.
The only consolation for me that any crosses we made into Fleetwood's box were good practice for when James Hanson plays as they were mostly 2 feet over the heads of our players on the night.
I hope that Wright, Carruthers, O'Shea and Hanson get their place at the next match and make the others realise that they have real competition.
Laffety who gives the ball away at every opportunity. and forgets to defend and mark his man.
Coutts who will not play the ball forward unless he plays it back or sideways first slowing down our attacks to give ample time for opponents to retreat and take up defensive positions.
CW also brought on Matt Done for what was a lost cause with only about 3 minutes to go instead of giving Young Riley a run out.
Fleck was hampered last night after 2 really hefty challenges in the first few minutes so wasn't at his best.
Duffy worked hard but achieved nothing.
For me, only Billy Sharp earned his money last night managing to fire off a few good shots despite the close and physical attentions of their central defenders.
The only consolation for me that any crosses we made into Fleetwood's box were good practice for when James Hanson plays as they were mostly 2 feet over the heads of our players on the night.
I hope that Wright, Carruthers, O'Shea and Hanson get their place at the next match and make the others realise that they have real competition.
Woodwardfan
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Good report Deadbat as always.
What struck me at the Bradford and Bury games in particular was the way we looked a promotion team in waiting, 'at it' all game, dominant, loud, confident, obvious rapport between players and with the manager.
Last night was the opposite in every way. Home games are harder to play and if things don't go well by the half hour the crowd can't help itself and conveys anxiety to the pitch.
On arriving at the ground to hear the team I was gobsmacked that Wright wasn't picked and even more that McNulty was starting. My conclusion then and even more so by the end of the game was that there must be a problem between Wilder and Lavary and maybe Clarke, though he is supposed to be injured. Add Done to those two after last night when he was brought on just 2 minutes from time and was first off the pitch at the end.
Wilder seems to have to include Basham somewhere in the team. He is showing misplaced faith in Scougall and he is letting Coutts play in his comfort zone for long spells in games. I wrote again last week about Coutts hinders and slows our build ups and seems to dominate and inhibit players around him.
Freeman is out of touch, EEL has 'gone' for a while, Basham is Basham and just not quite good enough as a defender which is his best position. Duffy is allowed to have bad days and so is Sharp but such as Lafferty can't step up to the plate and Lavary hasn't settled into the club yet so it's hard to judge him: I'm not saying he hasn't had the chance to settle but he clearly doesn't feel able to fully express himself yet.
Moore has been so good until recently but he should have covered that near post last night for the first goal and he may have a persistent problem in that basic priority area. Goalies make mistakes and suffer dips in form, it's how they recover that determines their career. Moore is still relatively young and inexperienced and will do better.
Players show strength in recovering from adversity and so do managers. Wilder has chosen to publicly berate his team a few times recently and particularly Sharp's striker partners; is that healthy? He decided Done was not good enough for the full season and I personally agree. His signings Clarke and Lavary have disappointed him and he has been quick to say so. It's a dangerous game to play and there may be confusion in the ranks with all the activity this JTW.
When we were on the good run I pointed out the weaknesses in midfield and in the striking partnerships and that some of the results in that run flattered us. We have made some key signings but at this stage of the season we are top of the league and yet we do not know our best side, some players will have to settle in and learn to fit in the pattern and some established players are not sure they will be in the first team much longer. Last night there was doubt and fear in our game whereas there was obvious enjoyment and belief just a few games ago.
To put a positive gloss on the situation we could say Wilder saw it all coming and knew there had to be changes. Whatever was first, the chicken or the egg, we are all faced with uncertainty but I personally believe Carruthers will replace Coutts, Wright will replace Basham and Hanson will be a Big Plan B. I am praying that Lavary will come good because we need pace alongside Sharp; unfortunately Clarke has no pace but will he stay or will he go?; we have too many strikers probably. McNulty should go and so should Scougall. I'd say Coutts needs to play each week or leave as his contract is up soon.
Please bear with the long post but all that has just flowed from me on return from the game last night. Essential departures make sense to me because any squad has to be United and we don't want too many players hanging around the training ground and bench and not getting a game. There is an optimum size of squad and we now have too many players. I could go on again about the 'Pathway for Youth' but perhaps another day.
We are top of the league and Wilder would not have 'upset the apple cart' without good reason. Knill wouldn't have let him! We have to start again and thankfully Scunny and Bolton have patchy form recently. All to play for.
What struck me at the Bradford and Bury games in particular was the way we looked a promotion team in waiting, 'at it' all game, dominant, loud, confident, obvious rapport between players and with the manager.
Last night was the opposite in every way. Home games are harder to play and if things don't go well by the half hour the crowd can't help itself and conveys anxiety to the pitch.
On arriving at the ground to hear the team I was gobsmacked that Wright wasn't picked and even more that McNulty was starting. My conclusion then and even more so by the end of the game was that there must be a problem between Wilder and Lavary and maybe Clarke, though he is supposed to be injured. Add Done to those two after last night when he was brought on just 2 minutes from time and was first off the pitch at the end.
Wilder seems to have to include Basham somewhere in the team. He is showing misplaced faith in Scougall and he is letting Coutts play in his comfort zone for long spells in games. I wrote again last week about Coutts hinders and slows our build ups and seems to dominate and inhibit players around him.
Freeman is out of touch, EEL has 'gone' for a while, Basham is Basham and just not quite good enough as a defender which is his best position. Duffy is allowed to have bad days and so is Sharp but such as Lafferty can't step up to the plate and Lavary hasn't settled into the club yet so it's hard to judge him: I'm not saying he hasn't had the chance to settle but he clearly doesn't feel able to fully express himself yet.
Moore has been so good until recently but he should have covered that near post last night for the first goal and he may have a persistent problem in that basic priority area. Goalies make mistakes and suffer dips in form, it's how they recover that determines their career. Moore is still relatively young and inexperienced and will do better.
Players show strength in recovering from adversity and so do managers. Wilder has chosen to publicly berate his team a few times recently and particularly Sharp's striker partners; is that healthy? He decided Done was not good enough for the full season and I personally agree. His signings Clarke and Lavary have disappointed him and he has been quick to say so. It's a dangerous game to play and there may be confusion in the ranks with all the activity this JTW.
When we were on the good run I pointed out the weaknesses in midfield and in the striking partnerships and that some of the results in that run flattered us. We have made some key signings but at this stage of the season we are top of the league and yet we do not know our best side, some players will have to settle in and learn to fit in the pattern and some established players are not sure they will be in the first team much longer. Last night there was doubt and fear in our game whereas there was obvious enjoyment and belief just a few games ago.
To put a positive gloss on the situation we could say Wilder saw it all coming and knew there had to be changes. Whatever was first, the chicken or the egg, we are all faced with uncertainty but I personally believe Carruthers will replace Coutts, Wright will replace Basham and Hanson will be a Big Plan B. I am praying that Lavary will come good because we need pace alongside Sharp; unfortunately Clarke has no pace but will he stay or will he go?; we have too many strikers probably. McNulty should go and so should Scougall. I'd say Coutts needs to play each week or leave as his contract is up soon.
Please bear with the long post but all that has just flowed from me on return from the game last night. Essential departures make sense to me because any squad has to be United and we don't want too many players hanging around the training ground and bench and not getting a game. There is an optimum size of squad and we now have too many players. I could go on again about the 'Pathway for Youth' but perhaps another day.
We are top of the league and Wilder would not have 'upset the apple cart' without good reason. Knill wouldn't have let him! We have to start again and thankfully Scunny and Bolton have patchy form recently. All to play for.
LSF
Active Member
Wow! That's a damning report of what was a difficult watch at Bramall Lane last night.
Was it that bad? (Adkinsesque).
Little credit is given to Fleetwood who looked a disciplined extremely hard working outfit who had a game plan that was adhered to superbly: and then a gifted goal gave them even more legs and we were just not up to solving it last night.
I think the confidence has gone for the moment and it showed.
Is it as doom and gloom as some of the naysayers are stating? No way!
I'm really not into team selection issues, Wilder knows his staff better than anyone and doesn't need my advice. With the influx of new blood and a kick in the bollocks for one or two, we can emerge from this and flourish once again.
Lots more ups and downs to come and I'm just glad I've got more faith and patience than some on here.
Was it that bad? (Adkinsesque).
Little credit is given to Fleetwood who looked a disciplined extremely hard working outfit who had a game plan that was adhered to superbly: and then a gifted goal gave them even more legs and we were just not up to solving it last night.
I think the confidence has gone for the moment and it showed.
Is it as doom and gloom as some of the naysayers are stating? No way!
I'm really not into team selection issues, Wilder knows his staff better than anyone and doesn't need my advice. With the influx of new blood and a kick in the bollocks for one or two, we can emerge from this and flourish once again.
Lots more ups and downs to come and I'm just glad I've got more faith and patience than some on here.
Fulwood Blade
Well-Known Member
For the ones having a go at Simon Moore for the first goal:
Here's a Goal Keepers answer - not me, my nipper who was and still is half decent.
Moore didn't get time to "set" himself - the miscued shot from the left went very quickly to the kid that scored ,and he hit it first time on the run.
Setting is what a GK is taught - it's all about the feet and positioning.
UTB
Here's a Goal Keepers answer - not me, my nipper who was and still is half decent.
Moore didn't get time to "set" himself - the miscued shot from the left went very quickly to the kid that scored ,and he hit it first time on the run.
Setting is what a GK is taught - it's all about the feet and positioning.
UTB
Your nipper knows his stuff. Taking the correct position for the shot is indeed another vital skill. Last night's first goal was difficult for Moore to adjust to the perfect position due to the speed of the original shot, the deflection and the first time volley that they scored from.
Some of Moore's other recent attempts didn't have the same difficulties though.
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