Under 23s - 2. Barnsley - 1

[I should coco]

it sounds as if you would rather the player fails than that your judgement is wrong. I hope I am wrong about that, but it is all too easy to read it that way

No that can't be the case and I'm sure you have got the wrong end of the stick there.

Pinchy is a fan of cultured football and a proper 'supporter'. If he just tediously stuck to his party line and went on and on about 'hoof' and 'diplodicus Dave' then he'd look like a right boring old fart wouldn't he?

He's bigger than that. He wishes all the best to the academy scholars and wants nothing more than a team full of Sheff'uld born lads playing at full throttle and cheered on by the crowd.

Without a tone of voice or facial expressions to go on, statements on-line often don't come across as intended.

Yup, pretty sure I've called that just right......

 

[Woodwardfan]

As a newcomer who prefers debate to argument, and don't know the details of the run-ins on this forum, could I ask you to tell us where your priorities lie. Without a tone of voice or facial expressions to go on, statements on-line often don't come across as intended. I regard youngsters in the club as one the best features of it, and I take great satisfaction seeing the progress of the Kyles, Harry, etc. I wish they played for us, but I still feel 'we' have helped these local lads realise their dream. There was an item yesterday in the Star about Danny Deakin, from Harry's generation, now playing with the likes of Kaka at Orlando. Not what we would have wanted, perhaps, but another local lad living the dream. When you refer to 'a mediocrity on his way inexorably down to the National League', it sounds as if you would rather the player fails than that your judgement is wrong. I hope I am wrong about that, but it is all too easy to read it that way. And I speak as someone who said to his son about 10 minutes into Deano's debut that he would never make a professional footballer. My son posts on here, and reminds of that from time to time. 'I was wrong' can be a great thing to say!

Deano, Hartlepool away wasn't it? I was there and Deane looked so clumsy and ungainly, just a couple of encouraging touches though and even those seemed in slow motion.

Always give the lads a good chance to find their feet. Hope for Lavary yet! and Clarke come to that!!

 

[larkymasher]

You said he was the best 17 year old you'd ever seen at our club. Quite how that benefits us I'm not sure but it was light years from reality in any event. He is now a mediocrity on his way inexorably down to the National League, where he will join countless other "best 17 year olds" all of whom would doubtless be world class if only they'd had a bit of 'encouragement'.

Ain't football cruel, eh?

I would like to ask when was the last time you watched Reed play? Have you been to any under23s games this season?

 

[Pinchy]

I would like to ask when was the last time you watched Reed play? Have you been to any under23s games this season?

No mate. It was last time he was in the first team. He was anonymous and lightweight. He demonstrated a wide range of inaccurate passes. He was/is entirely lacking in pace.

No wonder Clough hooked him at half-time on two separate occasions. He isn't big enough or good enough. He is not going to have a career in league football.

Whilst I may not go to u18 or u23 matches I used to go to 'junior' and 'reserve' matches regularly. I know a good prospect when I see one. I was the first to say that Ironside wouldn't make it whilst others were still giving it "Young Joe - first name on the team sheet" and other such nonsense. I've also been right on McFadz, Kennedy, De Juve, Chappell to name but a few.

Reed will not have a career in professional football at Sheffield United. League Two will be his level at the very best. I have absolutely no doubt about that.

It matters not either way to me. I support Sheffield United. I want our team filled with very good footballers. If they come from the Academy all well and good, but quality, not provenance, is what matters to me. One thing I am certain about. Wishing on a Star does not make a footballer any bigger or better.

 

[larkymasher]

So you have not watched him in over 18 months. Thought so.
What was your honest appraisal of DCL?
What's your honest opinion of Ramsdale?

 

[Pinchy]

So you have not watched him in over 18 months. Thought so.
What was your honest appraisal of DCL?
What's your honest opinion of Ramsdale?

No, I haven't. Tufty has though, and has yet to select him in the first team or put him on the bench regularly.

From the limited amount I saw of DCL, I saw nothing special at all. I have seen so little of Ramsdale that I can't reasonably comment. I heard he did a comedy routine in the U23s the other day? I certainly hope he is better than Calamity George, another one that I called early, whilst people were gushing 'still young, he'll improve'.

Do you see a glittering future for the England international, Little Louis?

 

[larkymasher]

So you haven't seen any of them consistently at all.
I thought not.

So if they are not ready for CW to use them yet, in your view they are shit or at least up for a bit of a sarcastic knocking down.
Looks like George is back on the bench. CW thinks he is good enough, I assume as CW thinks George is good enough again then that's ok with you?

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Big point that Baw.

Any club, even mid -table Prem clubs dare I say, have to invest in their youth system.

Any club that doesn't show a ' Pathway for Youth' sends a message to their young stars ( as well as their young prospective very, very good players) invites the Semples, the Reeds, the Brooks, the whitemans, the young Tyler-Smiths to join that different culture of football which is mercenary, 'see it, touch it, milk it'. Move as soon as possible, worry about 2018 when it comes.

The only way we can entice our young lads to stay with SUFC, mid-table L1 unachieving club, is to make them believe their future is better on the bench or in the first team with us rather than an also-ran elsewhere.

At present we are not encouraging our young lads.

If anyone disagrees with that final statement then please, ple ase convince me otherwise.

I agree with you. But I hope it’s a situation which will only exist in the short term. We seem hell bent on getting promoted this season and have signed plenty of experienced league 1 players who are surely not good enough (or not at the right stage of their career) to make a big impact in the championship (Hanson, Clarke, O’Shea, Wright, Wilson, Duffy etc.). We’ve funded this with the sale of players who might not be quite ready to lead a promotion push in league 1 but who could potentially have careers at a higher level (Adams, DCL, Ramsdale).


We’re approaching the season with a very short term mentality. Very single minded. The hope is that it works and when we are back in the championship, we can tweak the approach a little to develop these kids and get them into the team whilst also attracting better quality to supplement them. If we don’t go up, it might be a case of trying again in 2-3 years when some of these older league 1 players move on.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

No mate. It was last time he was in the first team. He was anonymous and lightweight. He demonstrated a wide range of inaccurate passes. He was/is entirely lacking in pace.

No wonder Clough hooked him at half-time on two separate occasions. He isn't big enough or good enough. He is not going to have a career in league football.

Whilst I may not go to u18 or u23 matches I used to go to 'junior' and 'reserve' matches regularly. I know a good prospect when I see one. I was the first to say that Ironside wouldn't make it whilst others were still giving it "Young Joe - first name on the team sheet" and other such nonsense. I've also been right on McFadz, Kennedy, De Juve, Chappell to name but a few.

Reed will not have a career in professional football at Sheffield United. League Two will be his level at the very best. I have absolutely no doubt about that.

It matters not either way to me. I support Sheffield United. I want our team filled with very good footballers. If they come from the Academy all well and good, but quality, not provenance, is what matters to me. One thing I am certain about. Wishing on a Star does not make a footballer any bigger or better.

Out of interest, were there any academy youngsters that you said would make it?


If you simply say they will all fail, you’ll be right more often than not.



I thought it was extremely obvious that Walker had an abundance of potential. It took longer for me to be convinced by Lowton. I thought Maguire would be a big, solid, no-nonsense centre half but his ability in playing out from the back has surprised me. I thought Kennedy would make it as a steady League 1, possibly even championship defender. He might have had it not been for his dodgy knees.


I expected Slew to do better than he has but never thought he’d go to the top. Again, thought he might possibly peak at the championship.


With Reed, you could see he had ability and vision when he made his debut as a 16 year old. But I was always concerned about his height and physique. He’s not had the growth spurt he needed and he doesn’t have the pace to compensate. He’s a good footballer but would need to be an exceptional one to make up for his physical shortcomings.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

No, I haven't. Tufty has though, and has yet to select him in the first team or put him on the bench regularly.

From the limited amount I saw of DCL, I saw nothing special at all. I have seen so little of Ramsdale that I can't reasonably comment. I heard he did a comedy routine in the U23s the other day? I certainly hope he is better than Calamity George, another one that I called early, whilst people were gushing 'still young, he'll improve'.

Do you see a glittering future for the England international, Little Louis?

I see DCL as almost the opposite of Reed. He has a lot of raw materials but doesn’t look “a proper footballer” in the sense that he seems to lack awareness and composure. But he’s over 6 foot, reasonably mobile and has a good leap on him. There is potential there to develop those attributes to make a very good target man at championship level at least IF he develops some upper body strength and positional awareness.

 

[BushBlade]

I see DCL as almost the opposite of Reed. He has a lot of raw materials but doesn’t look “a proper footballer” in the sense that he seems to lack awareness and composure. But he’s over 6 foot, reasonably mobile and has a good leap on him. There is potential there to develop those attributes to make a very good target man at championship level at least IF he develops some upper body strength and positional awareness.

I'd say that Ronald Koeman, ball playing defender, part of one of the fabled Dutch teams that passed the ball so beautifully and a pretty successful manager has shown he's a fair judge of player and is willing to play DCL in the PL.

I don't think there's much more that needs to be said really.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I'd say that Ronald Koeman, ball playing defender, part of one of the fabled Dutch teams that passed the ball so beautifully and a pretty successful manager has shown he's a fair judge of player and is willing to play DCL in the PL.

I don't think there's much more that needs to be said really.

I kind of agree but if we take the view that "the manager knows better than us so there is nothing to say", then the forum might as well close down. We all look at players with our own eyes and form some sort of opinion. Everton seem to be looking to buy some very young, raw talent in the likes of DCL, Lookman, Ramsdale (even though they failed to get him) and hoping to develop it. Your description of Keoman's abilities may be the reason he believes he can make DCL a real player. He has the physical tools. If Keoman can develop the technical and positional side of his game, he could be a very useful player.

 

[BushBlade]

I kind of agree but if we take the view that "the manager knows better than us so there is nothing to say", then the forum might as well close down. We all look at players with our own eyes and form some sort of opinion. Everton seem to be looking to buy some very young, raw talent in the likes of DCL, Lookman, Ramsdale (even though they failed to get him) and hoping to develop it. Your description of Keoman's abilities may be the reason he believes he can make DCL a real player. He has the physical tools. If Keoman can develop the technical and positional side of his game, he could be a very useful player.

Nothing wrong with discussing things, that's the point of a message board.
When a club with a good youth system and scouting network like Everton, and a manager of Koeman's calibre sign a player and use him in the first team, it has to give a great deal of weight to the argument that he's decent.

I didn't see it, apart from the goal in the friendly. But they did and I attach much more credibility to what they think than say, Brian the Blade.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Nothing wrong with discussing things, that's the point of a message board.
When a club with a good youth system and scouting network like Everton, and a manager of Koeman's calibre sign a player and use him in the first team, it has to give a great deal of weight to the argument that he's decent.

I didn't see it, apart from the goal in the friendly. But they did and I attach much more credibility to what they think than say, Brian the Blade.

I agree, they are likely to know better than us. That said, it's a small change gamble based largely on potential rather than him being anywhere near the finished article IMO. He's played a bit to further his development and because Everton are low on numbers IMO.