U23s away at Bolton

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

The U23s go to Bolton tonight, (Tuesday 19 April). Only one game left after that. We've got a tall order to finish in the top two & qualify for the end of season Play Offs. We can't catch Sheffield Wednesday, who are way out in front at the top. Realistically, we need to win both our games & rely on other results to have a chance of finishing second. Indeed, if we lose tonight, we're out of the Play Off race as we won't be able to catch tonight's oppos Bolton. I'll be live tweeting from the game & there'll be a report (and BEER) on the Blog as soon as I can get my act together after the game.

Phil
Blog Address
www.ball-sup.blogspot.co.uk

 

[larkymasher]

I think we kind of threw our chances away a bit this season over the last 6 games but, all for the greater good i guess. I bet Mr Binnion and Dungworth will be quietly seething at strength of teams they have had to put out over said 6 games.

Would be great to see a good strength side out there tonight. If only for the hardy bunch of 23s followers up there tonight.

 

[Baw Heid]

What ever happens it would be good for the lads to get a decent turnout at The Lane next Monday for the final game against Crewe

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Got beat 3-1. No chance of the Play Offs now. Four Trialists. None stood out. U18s rested for Friday. Jake Wright Junior red card (natch). Scouting report, match report, drink of the U23 season, all on the Blog

http://ball-sup.blogspot.co.uk/2017/04/4-trialists4-brown-envelopes.html

 

[larkymasher]

Got beat 3-1. No chance of the Play Offs now. Four Trialists. None stood out. U18s rested for Friday. Jake Wright Junior red card (natch). Scouting report, match report, drink of the U23 season, all on the Blog

http://ball-sup.blogspot.co.uk/2017/04/4-trialists4-brown-envelopes.html

Thanks Phil. Always love the reports.

Would you agree that for three so young we miss the influence of Graham and Semple at the back and Slater when they don't play.
Certainly since Semple has been missing we seem to have lost a calmness at the back and his distribution.

 

[EddieColquhoun]

Got beat 3-1. No chance of the Play Offs now. Four Trialists. None stood out. U18s rested for Friday. Jake Wright Junior red card (natch). Scouting report, match report, drink of the U23 season, all on the Blog

http://ball-sup.blogspot.co.uk/2017/04/4-trialists4-brown-envelopes.html

Cheers Phil.
But if one of the triallists had come good that has to be more important than play-offs?

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

larkymasher
But, it's like I tried to get over in the Blog. The end of season merry go round doesn't help with continuity. Semple is missing because of his injury. I assume Graham was being rested for the U18s. They're both part of what I feel has been a centre half production line. Maguire, Kennedy, Sam Berry, Ioan Evans. Semple is/was a very assured player. Slater too provides part of a solid spine. Incidentally, I overheard a scout for a Premier League club say he doesn't rate Slater. Feels he can bully his way through at younger age groups. But, hasn't got the core skills to succeed at a high level.

Essentially, I'm agreeing with you. Perm from Semple, Graham, Cummings, Kelly for a back three. Mallon at left wingback. Reed & Slater running midfield. Brooks with the creativity & some hard yards. Hallam upfront. Connor Hall if available. A bit light upfront. But the nucleus of a strong & young U23 side. If we could have got them playing together more, we should have done better.

I'm excluding Jake Wright Jnr. Unless he gets his head right, he's done. I love watching him play. But the constant sending offs make him a liability.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

EddieColquhoun
We've frigged around with far too many Trialists this year. I take your point. But, Trialists lessen our Play Off chances. AND Trialists restrict our own Academy Players development. Last night, Jake Wright had to struggle upfront with a young lad he'd presumably met in the dressing room beforehand. Never kicked a ball together at Shirecliffe. How is that helping Wright develop?

Look. I don't mind. 11 blokes in red n white kicking a ball about. A few beers. But, it's nice to see "our players". Four Trialists in one game is a hard pill.

 

[Baw Heid]

Got beat 3-1. No chance of the Play Offs now. Four Trialists. None stood out. U18s rested for Friday. Jake Wright Junior red card (natch). Scouting report, match report, drink of the U23 season, all on the Blog

http://ball-sup.blogspot.co.uk/2017/04/4-trialists4-brown-envelopes.html

Thanks for all your reports this season Phil. I have always found your reports represent a clear report on our young teams. I have watched a good few games this season and its clear our own Academy lads show up well against trialists from other academies The first half of the season was a great watch but since we started to cull the lads and Callum Semple's absence the performances have got a bit patchy and like you it's clear Jake Wright needs to find a way to control his aggression. If he does he can be very effective.
My successes this year include Graham, Bennett, Semple, Slater and Brooks and Reed have been a big plus when they get to play. All the youngsters play well but Ti Smith has improved every game and Jordan Hallum just keeps scoring. I enjoy watching how we built from the back earlier in the campaign and I will miss Cummings and Kelly next year
so thanks to all our lads and I hope they get a decent turn out at the Lane on Monday and also thanks to all the staff. Our coaches must be a bit down that the club did not support the 23s. The strongest team were better than any other academy I saw.
I must also commend George Long who played well and his support gave our young defenders confidence to express themselves

 

[larkymasher]

I have to agree with regards the number of trialists and i have to say i think at times we use them to make the numbers up at the end of the season.

I have now watched 6 trialist centre backs from various premiership clubs. None of who have been a patch on Semple, Graham or Cummings. All who are at least a year or two older than our youngsters.
This alone is a promising sign, although it still begs the question, What did Cummings do to get released??

I kind of see the need to bring a centre back in as once Semple is fit he will be off to L1,2 on loan next season. My other bug bare is that our own academy lads earn no more than £300 as first year pros. Some of these trialists have been earning 3 times that for the last 3 years since they were scholars !!! Will we be matching their salary ( if we sign them )or will they come in to line with our own lads, some of which have represented our club since 7 years old ( 11 years )

I for one would be royally pissed off if i had been at the club since 7 years old and some new lad arrives on 3 times what i earn.

That seems to me that our club is taking its own academy products for granted. It also makes it very easy to entice one of our own away. IMO

 

[BushBlade]

I have to agree with regards the number of trialists and i have to say i think at times we use them to make the numbers up at the end of the season.

I have now watched 6 trialist centre backs from various premiership clubs. None of who have been a patch on Semple, Graham or Cummings. All who are at least a year or two older than our youngsters.
This alone is a promising sign, although it still begs the question, What did Cummings do to get released??

I kind of see the need to bring a centre back in as once Semple is fit he will be off to L1,2 on loan next season. My other bug bare is that our own academy lads earn no more than £300 as first year pros. Some of these trialists have been earning 3 times that for the last 3 years since they were scholars !!! Will we be matching their salary ( if we sign them )or will they come in to line with our own lads, some of which have represented our club since 7 years old ( 11 years )

I for one would be royally pissed off if i had been at the club since 7 years old and some new lad arrives on 3 times what i earn.

That seems to me that our club is taking its own academy products for granted. It also makes it very easy to entice one of our own away. IMO

It doesn't really matter what these trialists were on though because they're being released. So they're not going to be on it anymore. Either they sign with us or sign for another club in the championship or below, few of whom will be willing to offer anything like what PL clubs will offer.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

My parting shot is..... A successful Academy breeds a successful Academy. I'm not taking a shot at the point made by EddieColquhoun. But, if Binnion can say to prospective kids & parents - "we get to the Play Offs every year"

That sounds more attractive to prospective kids & parents than - "we might have got to the Play Offs, but we dropped our regular kids in the hope one of the Trialists might be a bit better".

If you catch my drift. But, I won't hear much against Binnion - a very impressive fella. He's 30 years old.....

 

[larkymasher]

It doesn't really matter what these trialists were on though because they're being released. So they're not going to be on it anymore. Either they sign with us or sign for another club in the championship or below, few of whom will be willing to offer anything like what PL clubs will offer.

That in itself shows how money in the premier league can quickly ruin a young players ambitions.

Spoilt too early, they get used to the money then find what life is really like when the bubble bursts.

What trialists can do is unsettle our current youngsters when they here of great riches else where.

 

[BushBlade]

My parting shot is..... A successful Academy breeds a successful Academy. I'm not taking a shot at the point made by EddieColquhoun. But, if Binnion can say to prospective kids & parents - "we get to the Play Offs every year"

That sounds more attractive to prospective kids & parents than - "we might have got to the Play Offs, but we dropped our regular kids in the hope one of the Trialists might be a bit better".

If you catch my drift. But, I won't hear much against Binnion - a very impressive fella. He's 30 years old.....

Surely the most important thing when choosing an academy is how many of the players go on to become professionals? I'd rather my kid be offered a place at an academy that is selective, that only offers places to kids they genuinely believe will succeed than go to some academy that just takes on twenty kids every year and hopes one or two might make it. I'd prefer him to stay with an amateur club and concentrate on his schoolwork than waste his time at an academy like the pigs who rarely produce professional players. It's a waste of childhood.

 

[BushBlade]

That in itself shows how money in the premier league can quickly ruin a young players ambitions.

Spoilt too early, they get used to the money then find what life is really like when the bubble bursts.

What trialists can do is unsettle our current youngsters when they here of great riches else where.

When you can read in the papers how much Chelsea and Man City are paying kids who haven't kicked a ball in the first team they must be pretty dumb if they're not aware of this. Same as when they get called up for England like Reedy, he probably gets changed next to some kid with a Range Rover and a Franck Muller watch.

It must be difficult for them. It's a bit like doing college or sixth form when some of your mates go straight into work and earn good money labouring. It can be hard not to chase money at that age.

 

[Baw Heid]

My parting shot is..... A successful Academy breeds a successful Academy. I'm not taking a shot at the point made by EddieColquhoun. But, if Binnion can say to prospective kids & parents - "we get to the Play Offs every year"

That sounds more attractive to prospective kids & parents than - "we might have got to the Play Offs, but we dropped our regular kids in the hope one of the Trialists might be a bit better".

If you catch my drift. But, I won't hear much against Binnion - a very impressive fella. He's 30 years old.....

Do agree with you and I too have a high regard for all the good work trav and his team put in. If I was a parent with a talented prospect United and their Academy would be a great bet to develop their talent but it would be much better to win at this level as well

 

[larkymasher]

When you can read in the papers how much Chelsea and Man City are paying kids who haven't kicked a ball in the first team they must be pretty dumb if they're not aware of this. Same as when they get called up for England like Reedy, he probably gets changed next to some kid with a Range Rover and a Franck Muller watch.

It must be difficult for them. It's a bit like doing college or sixth form when some of your mates go straight into work and earn good money labouring. It can be hard not to chase money at that age.

I really can't argue with that Bush. You have explained it perfectly.

 

[Baw Heid]

When you can read in the papers how much Chelsea and Man City are paying kids who haven't kicked a ball in the first team they must be pretty dumb if they're not aware of this. Same as when they get called up for England like Reedy, he probably gets changed next to some kid with a Range Rover and a Franck Muller watch.

It must be difficult for them. It's a bit like doing college or sixth form when some of your mates go straight into work and earn good money labouring. It can be hard not to chase money at that age.

So true. When we played at Charlton and battered them when we had 11 players I watched all the Charlton scholars driving off in Rovers, Mercs and so on. Wonder what Joe Cummings is driving now? Now when I see the failed products from these set ups we might have it right

 

[larkymasher]

Surely the most important thing when choosing an academy is how many of the players go on to become professionals? I'd rather my kid be offered a place at an academy that is selective, that only offers places to kids they genuinely believe will succeed than go to some academy that just takes on twenty kids every year and hopes one or two might make it. I'd prefer him to stay with an amateur club and concentrate on his schoolwork than waste his time at an academy like the pigs who rarely produce professional players. It's a waste of childhood.

If you put your kid with an academy the only thing you need to be is honest with yourself and your son.

If you can see your lad is just making up the numbers in his given age group then be honest and pull him out. If you can't be honest with yourself and your lad then for the majority of families an academy is a bad experience.
If the feedback you get and from what you can see, if your lad is in the top 5 of his age group then its worth digging in and giving it your best shot.......

 

[EddieColquhoun]

My parting shot is..... A successful Academy breeds a successful Academy. I'm not taking a shot at the point made by EddieColquhoun. But, if Binnion can say to prospective kids & parents - "we get to the Play Offs every year"

That sounds more attractive to prospective kids & parents than - "we might have got to the Play Offs, but we dropped our regular kids in the hope one of the Trialists might be a bit better".

If you catch my drift. But, I won't hear much against Binnion - a very impressive fella. He's 30 years old.....

Not having a pop Phil - I love your posts.

A successful academy breeds successful players. Wednesday have qualified for the play-offs playing much older players than us. When we beat them the other week they had 25 year old Liam Palmer, 28 year old Lewis McGugan and 30 year old Urby Emanuelson getting the run around by our 16 year olds.

They reached the play-offs but Liam Palmer is the cream of their academy this century!

David Brookes is a good prospect for us and I'm guessing he was once a trialist as well as Jagielka?

 

[larkymasher]

Not having a pop Phil - I love your posts.

A successful academy breeds successful players. Wednesday have qualified for the play-offs playing much older players than us. When we beat them the other week they had 25 year old Liam Palmer, 28 year old Lewis McGugan and 30 year old Urby Emanuelson getting the run around by our 16 year olds.

They reached the play-offs but Liam Palmer is the cream of their academy this century!

David Brookes is a good prospect for us and I'm guessing he was once a trialist as well as Jagielka?

Every single player at an academy has been on trial. Whether at 7 years old, 12 years old 18 years old.

These trialists are being brought in to fulfill fixtures at the end of the season. That is very clear to any watchers of the 18s and 23s. If one of them happen to look good then great but at the moment these trialists are serving a purpose.

If CW really took the U23s Play offs that seriously we would 100% be in them. He doesn't, as his view of not releasing Reed, Brookes, Wilson to play 3 or 4 games at a critical time of the season showed. Leaving us to field 16 year old kids, and at a time when the 23s captain Callum Semple got a serious injury.

So lets not get carried away about finding the next best thing with these trialists..... Its not what they are here for.

 

[Silent Blade]

What I have noticed about Academies is that they concentrate on developing two or three highly talented players from each age group but the rest of the squad just make up the numbers

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Endorsing Silent Blade .....
As an Academy watcher ..... you have to field 11 every week (plus subs) - some are making the numbers up.

 

[DazBlade88]

It's the way it is. Very few have the talent and mentality to make it. If you manage to get more than 2 or 3 in an age group (and keep them as a cat 2), you're extremely lucky.

 

[larkymasher]

What I have noticed about Academies is that they concentrate on developing two or three highly talented players from each age group but the rest of the squad just make up the numbers

Of course there are players only making the numbers up. That is exactly why a parent has to be honest with themselves and see that. If its your lad making up the numbers either except it and enjoy the ride or leave.
If the parent is so deluded as to think there lad is the best thing going and can't see the obvious then it will drive them mad.

What happens is parents then slag off the academy system when their son does not make it.

First year Pros next season in Semple, Hallam, Gilmoor, Ty Smith have been at the club since 8 years old. That is very very rare indeed and should not be held up as the norm by any parent entering the slippy slope of academy football.

 

[Ihadadream]

Very much doubt we will get anything tonight especially as al

larkymasher
But, it's like I tried to get over in the Blog. The end of season merry go round doesn't help with continuity. Semple is missing because of his injury. I assume Graham was being rested for the U18s. They're both part of what I feel has been a centre half production line. Maguire, Kennedy, Sam Berry, Ioan Evans. Semple is/was a very assured player. Slater too provides part of a solid spine. Incidentally, I overheard a scout for a Premier League club say he doesn't rate Slater. Feels he can bully his way through at younger age groups. But, hasn't got the core skills to succeed at a high level.

Essentially, I'm agreeing with you. Perm from Semple, Graham, Cummings, Kelly for a back three. Mallon at left wingback. Reed & Slater running midfield. Brooks with the creativity & some hard yards. Hallam upfront. Connor Hall if available. A bit light upfront. But the nucleus of a strong & young U23 side. If we could have got them playing together more, we should have done better.

I'm excluding Jake Wright Jnr. Unless he gets his head right, he's done. I love watching him play. But the constant sending offs make him a liability.

i have to agree with the Premier League scout fancy Young Slater thinking that at 17 he's good enough and has the ability to compete with lads 5&6 years older than him....no wonder the horrible little twat has resorted to having to bully them!!! Wait till there 30 and he's 24 then he'll know about!!! Was the scout smoking crack by any chance?

 

[larkymasher]

Very much doubt we will get anything tonight especially as al

i have to agree with the Premier League scout fancy Young Slater thinking that at 17 he's good enough and has the ability to compete with lads 5&6 years older than him....no wonder the horrible little twat has resorted to having to bully them!!! Wait till there 30 and he's 24 then he'll know about!!! Was the scout smoking crack by any chance?

Unbelievable !! Unbelievable !!

 

[EddieColquhoun]

Very much doubt we will get anything tonight especially as al

i have to agree with the Premier League scout fancy Young Slater thinking that at 17 he's good enough and has the ability to compete with lads 5&6 years older than him....no wonder the horrible little twat has resorted to having to bully them!!! Wait till there 30 and he's 24 then he'll know about!!! Was the scout smoking crack by any chance?

Lewis McGugan is 28 and on a hefty wage (some claim 20 a week) but he didn't like it up him!

 

[Ihadadream]

Of course there are players only making the numbers up. That is exactly why a parent has to be honest with themselves and see that. If its your lad making up the numbers either except it and enjoy the ride or leave.
If the parent is so deluded as to think there lad is the best thing going and can't see the obvious then it will drive them mad.

What happens is parents then slag off the academy system when their son does not make it.

First year Pros next season in Semple, Hallam, Gilmoor, Ty Smith have been at the club since 8 years old. That is very very rare indeed and should not be held up as the norm by any parent entering the slippy slope of academy football.

Spot on quotes and I can't agree more you can't develop a player or players unless you have a full team, yes they probably only fancy 2 Or 3 but without the others this is impossible parents have to be realistic about the future, getting released isn't the end of the world just the end of an exciting journey that unfortunately didn't have the dream ending but taught those lads so many positives and memories that can never be taken away, Sheff Utd's academy has evolved year on year which is why it is Yorkshires Premier Academy and respected throughout the footballing world

 

[Sothall_Blade]

EddieColquhoun
We've frigged around with far too many Trialists this year. I take your point. But, Trialists lessen our Play Off chances. AND Trialists restrict our own Academy Players development. Last night, Jake Wright had to struggle upfront with a young lad he'd presumably met in the dressing room beforehand. Never kicked a ball together at Shirecliffe. How is that helping Wright develop?

Look. I don't mind. 11 blokes in red n white kicking a ball about. A few beers. But, it's nice to see "our players". Four Trialists in one game is a hard pill.

The obvious solution would surely be to play trialists in the "behind closed doors friendlies" and leave the likes of Brooks and Reed to compete for Play-offs and Trophies with the rest of their U23 teammates and peers.

Less chance of any successful trialist being scouted by other clubs and it's surely better experience for our Juniors to play vital, competitive fixtures than a meaningless kickabout against bored Senior fringe players.