Two Team Cities & Home Attendances

[Keef Chedwyn]

to be fair I dont think weve won quite as much
1 league cup win in 80 years in manchester might have curtailed their crowds a tad

Under any circumstances the teams of Liverpool, Manchester and Glasgow will always be better supported than the teams of Sheffield.

 

[cahill]

Agree. To give populations of individual towns and cities isn't the full picture when looking at football club catchment areas. For example the counties of Leicestershire and Derbyshire have a population of almost 1 million each. Barring Chesterfield it means that Derby County have a huge catchment of potential support. The same applies for Norfolk, Suffolk, Naarich and Ipshite respectively.
Talk to Barnsley fans and they argue that as the Town has a population of 76,000 they are one of the best supported clubs in the country, conveniantly forgetting that Barnsley Borough has a population of 230,000.

Correction Leicestershire and Derbyshire have populations of more than one million each

 

[cahill]

Under any circumstances the teams of Liverpool, Manchester and Glasgow will always be better supported than the teams of Sheffield.

You're probably right. A football club can't ( shouldn't) move itself to another city, area, region, you're stuck with the population as it is. Interestingly, as I understand it, much of Millwalls support comes from elsewhere other than south east London, the old " white flight" syndrome, to Kent and Essex.

 

[super_pig]

What about Liverpool though? Smaller city by population than Sheffield but their attendances are much bigger than ours. Success plays a factor obviously but that just illustrates the appalling under-achieving of both Sheffield clubs compared to the size of the city.

Liverpool haven't been in league 1 for 5 years!

 

[Keef Chedwyn]

You're probably right. A football club can't ( shouldn't) move itself to another city, area, region, you're stuck with the population as it is. Interestingly, as I understand it, much of Millwalls support comes from elsewhere other than south east London, the old " white flight" syndrome, to Kent and Essex.

United can just about sell a decent Wembley allocation, Pigs probably a bit more than that. Nowt special.

 

[JJBlade]

The Sheffield clubs, especially United, have suffered more than any other club from a similar sized city in WORLD FOOTBALL
The support is astonishing considering the shit that we've had handed to us

Quite unbelievable how so many still turn up and it has a lot to do with footballs original heritage.

The support would have been even more incredible if the clubs were managed properly and if they continued to achieve what they showed they could in the earlier years of professional football

Football belongs here, Tis is the true home of Association football, Sheffield had a big hand in writing the laws of the game..........but, typically even they got sold for a million

 

[georgethecat]

It's all about success over the years. Here in NI the vast majority of fans over the last 40 years have followed liverpool, man Utd, arsenal, Celtic and rangers. This is because of their profile in the media and the success these English clubs have had and the tribal affiliation with the two Scottish clubs. There was always some support for other clubs who have been successful in the past such as Leeds, Chelsea and Spurs. However, in the last 15 years there has been a great growth in the following of clubs like Chelsea and man city largely due to their heightened profile and success.
If I fly over to watch the blades on a Saturday morning the airport is full of fans from across NI travelling to watch their teams and the vast majority are going to watch these more glamorous clubs. I have no doubt that if the blades had the financial backing and superstar players that man city have had over the last decade then they would see an explosion in interest and following not only domestically but also globally.

 

[snootyfenooty]

The Sheffield clubs, especially United, have suffered more than any other club from a similar sized city in WORLD FOOTBALL
The support is astonishing considering the shit that we've had handed to us

Quite unbelievable how so many still turn up and it has a lot to do with footballs original heritage.

The support would have been even more incredible if the clubs were managed properly and if they continued to achieve what they showed they could in the earlier years of professional football

Football belongs here, Tis is the true home of Association football, Sheffield had a big hand in writing the laws of the game..........but, typically even they got sold for a million

The main disappointment for me is during the 70's and our last premiership visit we could have buried the pigs for good. Each time we were so far ahead of them it just needed that extra nudge from the board to put them to bed for good. We fucked up on both occasions and the pigs recovered. We could have been out of sight. Ah well, I've a feeling we're going to get another opportunity soon.

 

[Isar]

United can just about sell a decent Wembley allocation, Pigs probably a bit more than that. Nowt special.

Both Bristol Rovers and Millwall have each previously sold over 40k tickets for a Wembley appearance, I wouldn't measure a clubs level support on a trip to Wembley.

 

[Keef Chedwyn]

Both Bristol Rovers and Millwall have each previously sold over 40k tickets for a Wembley appearance, I wouldn't measure a clubs level support on a trip to Wembley.

Yeah, fair enough.

We couldn't sell that many though.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

I understand the thought behind the two clubs rivalry making the attendances higher but if the clubs had merged around the fifties early sixties when there was no fierce rivalry the new club would have grown to probably have leeds as the main rivals and I can imagine our gates would have been higher and who knows maybe winning things? Europe? Bloody hell getting carried away now, literally. :-o

Hope the Thai and the Saudi don't read that.

 

[Dnblade]

If there had been one Sheffield club from the outset,and no United or Wendy,I'm sure that crowds would be north of 50k..and with the success of Manchester or Liverpool teams it would be even higher.
Leeds attendances are poor for a one city team,with a massive catchment area.
Manchester and Liverpool teams have had far more success and investment,which raised there profile outside of the city..Sheffield hasn't had either,post war anyway.

 

[blade too long]

Under any circumstances the teams of Liverpool, Manchester and Glasgow will always be better supported than the teams of Sheffield.

dont see it that way

Everton averaged many seasons 20 odd thousands despite always being in the top league
glasgow is a one off as both took turns winning everything and cant be in the equation

I have no doubt if wed won 4 or 5 champions leagues and 18 titles and were in the CL wed get 50 k minimum
actually wed get nearer 70

 

[Keef Chedwyn]

I have no doubt if wed won 4 or 5 champions leagues and 18 titles and were in the CL wed get 50 k minimum
actually wed get nearer 70

There would have to be a lot of new fans from somewhere!

I reckon there's a pool of about 30,000 people who attend at least one game per season and about 10,000 people who claim to be United fans who don't go to games. There are no more people to attend the games. That is all the people.

I think your figures are ridiculous but then again I don't actually know anything.

 

[blade too long]

what are you on about

are you saying like liverpool and man utd if we had won things half of ireland essex and surrey wouldnt be in the ground
take out everyone who doesnt reside in both connobations your holding up and count again

in any old trafford crowd if you took out people with no history of living in the city be lucky to match us

 

[Keef Chedwyn]

what are you on about

are you saying like liverpool and man utd if we had won things half of ireland essex and surrey wouldnt be in the ground
take out everyone who doesnt reside in both connobations your holding up and count again

in any old trafford crowd if you took out people with no history of living in the city be lucky to match us

If you press on 'reply' it will give me a notification that you've replied. Wish I hadn't checked to be honest.

I'll repeat what I said before...

Under any circumstances the teams of Liverpool, Manchester and Glasgow will always be better supported than the teams of Sheffield.

By that I mean there could never be a situation where Sheffield teams are better supported than the teams of Liverpool, Manchester or Glasgow.

If you want to carry on with this, could you put a bit more effort in please? It's exhausting trying to read your posts.

 

[blade too long]

If you press on 'reply' it will give me a notification that you've replied. Wish I hadn't checked to be honest.

I'll repeat what I said before...

Under any circumstances the teams of Liverpool, Manchester and Glasgow will always be better supported than the teams of Sheffield.

By that I mean there could never be a situation where Sheffield teams are better supported than the teams of Liverpool, Manchester or Glasgow.

If you want to carry on with this, could you put a bit more effort in please? It's exhausting trying to read your posts.

mines exhausting
you just keep claiming in any circumstances they d get more

on what basis

theyve had success for 50 years they get more plastics than real fans
weve endured 12 seaons in the bottom 2 divisions and still get 25k purely from local support after a decade of purgatory

we dont have 50 coaches from Ireland every game or 3 coach parks full ofSurrey and essex coach companies
and we dont have people from the far east on trips

but and heres the thing
if we had won as much wed have 50 coachloads of Irish people whod claim theyd supported us since birth in kilkenny
And Reginald would drive his BMW up to Sheffield every other week for a prawn sandwich along with thousands of his type

if man utd had oldhams record I reckon theyd get as many as them , its why they do

 

[Punk Blade]

Both Bristol Rovers and Millwall have each previously sold over 40k tickets for a Wembley appearance, I wouldn't measure a clubs level support on a trip to Wembley.

Considering we go to Wembley relatively frequently for a club of our standing (little novelty value) and never win (no glory), I fully agree.

If we made the cup final, demand would be up towards 40k, but we wouldn't get that many tickets.

 

[Keef Chedwyn]

mines exhausting
you just keep claiming in any circumstances they d get more

on what basis

theyve had success for 50 years they get more plastics than real fans
weve endured 12 seaons in the bottom 2 divisions and still get 25k purely from local support after a decade of purgatory

we dont have 50 coaches from Ireland every game or 3 coach parks full ofSurrey and essex coach companies
and we dont have people from the far east on trips

but and heres the thing
if we had won as much wed have 50 coachloads of Irish people whod claim theyd supported us since birth in kilkenny
And Reginald would drive his BMW up to Sheffield every other week for a prawn sandwich along with thousands of his type

if man utd had oldhams record I reckon theyd get as many as them , its why they do

We don't have "plastics", "Irish" or any of the others you're on about because we are not big enough. Never have been, never will be. The same reason that Blackburn Rovers have never been a big draw and why Leicester will never need a bigger stadium despite being successful. Even Chelsea don't need a bigger ground, only for Abramovich's ego because nobody really gives a fuck about them.

It's totally different in Liverpool, Manchester and Glasgow. They're on a different level to us. We don't have the potential to be like them, the numbers don't exist for us. If we were in the Champions League and they were in Division 3, it would be the same. Always was the same, always will be.

 

[blade too long]

We don't have "plastics", "Irish" or any of the others you're on about because we are not big enough. Never have been, never will be. The same reason that Blackburn Rovers have never been a big draw and why Leicester will never need a bigger stadium despite being successful. Even Chelsea don't need a bigger ground, only for Abramovich's ego because nobody really gives a fuck about them.

It's totally different in Liverpool, Manchester and Glasgow. They're on a different level to us. We don't have the potential to be like them, the numbers don't exist for us. If we were in the Champions League and they were in Division 3, it would be the same. Always was the same, always will be.

rubbish , they are founded on glory hunters
had any of them had our record over the past 50 years theyd get fewer than us
success is what defines them not fans

all the hangers on would be elsewhere
like chelsea and arsenal whos gates only grew with cl coverage
even man city are pulling more plastics these days

if wed won several prem titles wed struggle to get a seat away from welsh people claiming theyd loved us since they first ate a leek

 

[cahill]

Not bothered how successful they are I don't get why anybody would support the Glasgow pair. Obviously in this era Celtic are more successful but where's the fun in supporting them, I appreciate it's about tribal loyalty.

Travelling from Ireland or Southern England thinking "Oooh Stirling Albion for the 5th time this calendar year, can't wait "

 

[nicksufc]

Kind of hard to compare us to the Manchester & Liverpool clubs, and even Leeds, because they all have hangers-on from all around the country due to their sustained success. Neither us nor Wednesday have had anything like that, so to say we're getting a combined 52k so far this season is hella impressive.

I've always thought the North East is the most impressive place in terms of crowds. The whole Tyne and Wear district is just over 1m in terms of population, yet combine Newcastle and Sunderland's crowds and you get almost 100k. Our equivalent area is 1.3m.

 

[LS16Blade]

Those figures (Keef Chedwyn's "pool of 30,000 fans plus another 10,000 who don't go") are probably on the low side. As recently as 2009, the club confirmed that their database had in excess of 70,000 individual names registered as having purchased match tickets from the Lane ticket office.

In any event, it is plainly well short of the numbers that the elite clubs will have on their databases, albeit for very understandable reasons. As JJBlade says above, there isn't a club in the world that has such a mismatch between the size of its home city and its lack of success (Indeed I believe that there was a study published a couple of years ago which arrived at this very conclusion).

Ours is a club that has literally never shown the ambition to tickle the supporters' fancy. Successive Boards have been small-time and utterly parochial in their outlook. The Pigs have at least talked big from time to time and have, on occasion, walked the walk such as during the early 60's and when they were buying up half of the England team (albeit Graham Taylor's England) under Trevor Francis.

The nearest that we have ever come to throwing some weight around was (a) under Reg Brearley in 1981 which was, after all, in Division 4 and lasted for about 12 months before the horns were pulled in again, and (b) in Summer 2007 after relegation from the Premier League, and again it was short-lived and the drawbridge was pulled up again by October when Robson wanted to bring in Campo as a midfield general and Cahill was deemed too pricy to take permanently at £1.5m.

In the circumstances, the level of United's support is absolutely incredible. What's more, I will say, without any fear of contradiction (not least because no other club of comparable size or larger would ever allow themselves to take 6 years to get out of the 3rd division) that there is not another club in the country that would pull an average gate of 21,892 in its sixth successive season in the 3rd Division.

 

[cahill]

Kind of hard to compare us to the Manchester & Liverpool clubs, and even Leeds, because they all have hangers-on from all around the country due to their sustained success. Neither us nor Wednesday have had anything like that, so to say we're getting a combined 52k so far this season is hella impressive.

I've always thought the North East is the most impressive place in terms of crowds. The whole Tyne and Wear district is just over 1m in terms of population, yet combine Newcastle and Sunderland's crowds and you get almost 100k. Our equivalent area is 1.3m.

Then again, you can't deny that Newcastle's support is very good but then there is no other rival club in the 70 miles north up to the Scottish border. How many other clubs do we have to contend with within a 70 miles radius.

 

[Keef Chedwyn]

there is not another club in the country that would pull an average gate of 21,892 in its sixth successive season in the 3rd Division.

Good post up to this last bit which is deluded nonsense.

 

[Fev-blade]

Even with one club Sheffield wouldn't ever match Glasgow,,,those two teams are a whole world apart in support,,it involves religion and British and Irish beliefs..
You go to a home game at ibrox and the home support has buses from all over the uk and the "Scottish"rangers fans class them selves as "British" and generally not Scottish,,in fact I know many "scottish" Rangers fans who actively support against the Scottish national team,,,
Then Celtic has the whole Irish connection and it is one unique rivalry that in my opinion is not matched anywhere in the world..

 

[S64 Blade]

Those figures (Keef Chedwyn's "pool of 30,000 fans plus another 10,000 who don't go") are probably on the low side. As recently as 2009, the club confirmed that their database had in excess of 70,000 individual names registered as having purchased match tickets from the Lane ticket office.

Totally agree, as it suggests the 3-4,000 match day tickets we sell is from a pretty much the same pool of people each game (10k). It's probably from closer to double what has been suggested, based on my scientific method of people I know who go regularly but aren't season tickets and how often they go.

 

[blade too long]

Id bet 5 grand if you checked the database of man utd ticket holders 35 to 40 per cent wont live within 10 mile of the ground
perhaps 10 per cent less at liverpool

be around 5 to 10 per cent of blades and 95 per cent of those would be people whos family lived in sheffield before

 

[Dnblade]

Even with one club Sheffield wouldn't ever match Glasgow,,,those two teams are a whole world apart in support,,it involves religion and British and Irish beliefs..
You go to a home game at ibrox and the home support has buses from all over the uk and the "Scottish"rangers fans class them selves as "British" and generally not Scottish,,in fact I know many "scottish" Rangers fans who actively support against the Scottish national team,,,
Then Celtic has the whole Irish connection and it is one unique rivalry that in my opinion is not matched anywhere in the world..

Great support as the 2 Glasgow teams get...I remember Rangers down to 12k in the 80's,and Celtic in the old Celtic Park down to 8k.
I know crowds were down everywhere,17k turning up at anfield one Tuesday night for instance,while the little old Blades averaged 15k in Div 4,and remember about 25k turn out for a game v Rochdale.
It's just that people bang on about great support,but where was the Glasgow clubs worldwide support back then.
Same with Newcastle pre Keegan,down to 8k in a run down St.James's,and has since had the ground rebuilt and loads of money thrown at them ever since,no wonder their crowds have held up with their massive catchment area and big name Managers and signings plus investment down the years.
I maintain though that,had say Sheffield Club turned pro all those years ago,and we were a one club City like Leeds or Newcastle...we'd easily be getting 50k every week and more with a successful period in the bank with investment and a fantastic stadium to bring them in from miles around,no problem.

 

[Paisley Blade]

Kind of hard to compare us to the Manchester & Liverpool clubs, and even Leeds, because they all have hangers-on from all around the country due to their sustained success. Neither us nor Wednesday have had anything like that, so to say we're getting a combined 52k so far this season is hella impressive.

I've always thought the North East is the most impressive place in terms of crowds. The whole Tyne and Wear district is just over 1m in terms of population, yet combine Newcastle and Sunderland's crowds and you get almost 100k. Our equivalent area is 1.3m.

Hmmm, not sure that one stacks up . You can add on the populations of Northumberland (pretty much exclusively Mags) and Co Durham (huge swathes Mackems) and together with Tyne and Wear the combined population is nearer 2 million.