Two decent, quick lads in the forward line

[Bergen Blade]

Delighted with Forte and Murphy scoring a goal each today. I think our squad is decent, but unlike last season's highly skilful and creative team, this year's team requires two decent, quick lads in the forward line to help stretch the opposition.

Let's move Cofie out of the reckoning, as although he had pace, he had little idea of how to make use of it. Then let's look at our record in the matches where we did have had two quick lads in the first eleven:

4-1 (Chappell and Miller)
2-1 (Miller and Blackman)
4-1 (Miller and Blackman)
3-3 (Miller and Blackman)
0-2 (Miller and Blackman)
2-1 (Miller and Blackman)
3-1 (Miller and Blackman)
0-0 (Miller and Blackman)
2-0 (Miller and Blackman)
3-0 (Miller and Blackman)
2-1 (Murphy and Forte)
2-0 (Murphy and Forte)

9 wins, 2 draws, 1 defeat

Goal difference 28-11

 

[1889]

Delighted with Forte and Murphy scoring a goal each today. I think our squad is decent, but unlike last season's highly skilful and creative team, this year's team requires two decent, quick lads in the forward line to help stretch the opposition.

Let's move Cofie out of the reckoning, as although he had pace, he had little idea of how to make use of it. Then let's look at our record in the matches where we did have had two quick lads in the first eleven:

4-1 (Chappell and Miller)
2-1 (Miller and Blackman)
4-1 (Miller and Blackman)
3-3 (Miller and Blackman)
0-2 (Miller and Blackman)
2-1 (Miller and Blackman)
3-1 (Miller and Blackman)
0-0 (Miller and Blackman)
2-0 (Miller and Blackman)
3-0 (Miller and Blackman)
2-1 (Murphy and Forte)
2-0 (Murphy and Forte)

9 wins, 2 draws, 1 defeat

Goal difference 28-11

And your point is?

 

[JohnDenver]

And your point is?

More constructive than yours?

 

[1889]

More constructive than yours?

Absolutely, but in my defence it was meant to have a smiley, until I realised that there isn't any on this keyboard !

Apologies Bergen, for the record I fully agree, without any pace or movement up front, there is absolutely nowhere for McDonald to go other than sidewards.

 

[Pinchy]

Who was the Chappell with pace? Certainly not the one who occupied a shirt for a brief period earlier in the season. Miller is not particularly pacy, either. He simply thinks a bit quicker than thick defenders and that gains him vital space (a praise, not a grumble - I'm a fan!)

Both Forte and Murphy are much quicker than either.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Delighted with Forte and Murphy scoring a goal each today. I think our squad is decent, but unlike last season's highly skilful and creative team, this year's team requires two decent, quick lads in the forward line to help stretch the opposition.

Let's move Cofie out of the reckoning, as although he had pace, he had little idea of how to make use of it. Then let's look at our record in the matches where we did have had two quick lads in the first eleven:

4-1 (Chappell and Miller)
2-1 (Miller and Blackman)
4-1 (Miller and Blackman)
3-3 (Miller and Blackman)
0-2 (Miller and Blackman)
2-1 (Miller and Blackman)
3-1 (Miller and Blackman)
0-0 (Miller and Blackman)
2-0 (Miller and Blackman)
3-0 (Miller and Blackman)
2-1 (Murphy and Forte)
2-0 (Murphy and Forte)

9 wins, 2 draws, 1 defeat

Goal difference 28-11

I totally agree with your point but you've missed the games where Blackman and Murphy played together. 1 draw and 1 defeat in the league.

 

[raul]

In amidst all the madness that has engulfed this forum since Boxing Day (and will no doubt continue for a while yet) I'm pleased for DW that a) things appear to be back on track and b) his signings have had an impact.

After what he put in front of us to watch last year (yes, miles better squad, but lets not forget how abject that same squad was under Quickfix) it's ridiculous the amount of "lost the plot" and "always fails in his second season" stuff has been posted.

He's not a great manager - he wouldn't be here if he was - but there's an honesty and a dignity we've not had for a while. If you still want rid, have a look at Alan Judge's comments on the madness at Notts then come back and tell me why its a good idea.

 

[Bladesway]

DW has kept his head and got on with the job. If he gets promotion it will be to his huge credit while the chairman tried to derail him in January.

 

[Bergen Blade]

I totally agree with your point but you've missed the games where Blackman and Murphy played together. 1 draw and 1 defeat in the league.

You're right. When I feel the team selection has good balance I move on and look for other reasons for a poor performance. In those two games (10 man Notts County away and Yeovil at home) I felt our mental approach/preparation seemed poor.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Who was the Chappell with pace? Certainly not the one who occupied a shirt for a brief period earlier in the season. Miller is not particularly pacy, either. He simply thinks a bit quicker than thick defenders and that gains him vital space (a praise, not a grumble - I'm a fan!)

Both Forte and Murphy are much quicker than either.

Jordan Chappell is quick, and as a player type he's an out and out winger. He has started one game this season, and that was the 4-1 cup win against Notts County. He was ok, but first and foremost his player type contributed to us having good balance on the day and the scoreline reflected that.

I know Miller isn't as fast as Forte (very few are), but he's still pretty quick, and he's good at making use of it through good anticipation and movement, a bit like Pesky, although Pesky was far slower than Miller.

If pace alone was the attribute that was needed Cofie could not have been excluded from the stat, hence the inclusion of "decent" in the title.

 

[JohnDenver]

Absolutely, but in my defence it was meant to have a smiley, until I realised that there isn't any on this keyboard !

Now you're making me feel bad.

 

[SwissBlade]

Let's move Cofie out of the reckoning, as although he had pace, he had little idea of how to make use of it. Then let's look at our record in the matches where we did have had two quick lads in the first eleven:

Sorry Bergen, but if you're going to do this right, you NEED to include Cofie. He was a quick forward, you can't discount him just because it suits your arguement.

I like to read your posts as they are often very objective, but some of your recent ones have become too subjective.

Cofie is clearly a talented footballer, but he didn't manage to be sucessful at the lane where others with similar attributes have done. So actually excluding him from your argument, you miss a good opportunity to identify the exact attributes that a striker needs this season.

 

[BornOnShorehamStreet]

Who was the Chappell with pace? Certainly not the one who occupied a shirt for a brief period earlier in the season. Miller is not particularly pacy, either. He simply thinks a bit quicker than thick defenders and that gains him vital space (a praise, not a grumble - I'm a fan!)
.

Often, pace is relative...

Some pace better than no pace

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

Bergen is right in that the pace not utilised properly is useless. Utilised in terms of the player with said pace having some ability (otherwise big clubs would be paying millions to Bolt et al) and a modicum of football intelligence to maximise it's use. Best utilised in several ways: 1. Outball down the channels to turn a defence/release pressure. 2. Create space to allow those with the ability to pick a pass to do so. 3. Keep defences deeper to create more space in midfield (faced with very quick forwards, defences will drop 5-10 yards deeper to prevent 1. happening).

Hopefully this injection of pace will also see an upturn in the form of McDonald.

 

[broomhillblade]

DW has kept his head and got on with the job. If he gets promotion it will be to his huge credit while the chairman tried to derail him in January.

Eh?

 

[Bergen Blade]

Sorry Bergen, but if you're going to do this right, you NEED to include Cofie. He was a quick forward, you can't discount him just because it suits your arguement.

I like to read your posts as they are often very objective, but some of your recent ones have become too subjective.

Cofie is clearly a talented footballer, but he didn't manage to be sucessful at the lane where others with similar attributes have done. So actually excluding him from your argument, you miss a good opportunity to identify the exact attributes that a striker needs this season.

Having pace without being able to make use of it is (usually) worthless. Cofie's problem was a disappointing lack of awareness and not being able to spot the situations where he should have been using his pace. You rarely saw him making well timed runs in behind the defence and if he sometimes ran onto a ball down the channel he seemed clueless about what to do after he'd got it. His movement, in general, was poor.

O'Halloran was similar last season.

In this blog you'll find a snap of a situation where Cofie is making only a half hearted attempt at a run down the channel. Hopefully Forte will be better at identifying these situations and give us the movement that we require.

 

[SwissBlade]

Having pace without being able to make use of it is (usually) worthless. Cofie's problem was a disappointing lack of awareness and not being able to spot the situations where he should have been using his pace. You rarely saw him making well timed runs in behind the defence and if he sometimes ran onto a ball down the channel he seemed clueless about what to do after he'd got it. His movement, in general, was poor.

O'Halloran was similar last season.

In this blog you'll find a snap of a situation where Cofie is making only a half hearted attempt at a run down the channel. Hopefully Forte will be better at identifying these situations and give us the movement that we require.

I don't disagree Bergen, but the point I was making was that you didn't include him in the results on here, which doesn't show the correct picture.

The fact that Wilson sent him/ Man U recalled him back shows that it didn't work out, but you're basing your discussion on decent, quick players and yet you discount Cofie.

Cofie had one decent game that I saw, v Bournmouth at home.

He played through the middle and the game suited him perfectly. It was a wide open, end to end game which ended 5-3. Cofie was allowed to play what appeared to be "his game" that day. Picking the ball up on the counter with space to run into he did well. He clearly likes facing goal, with the ball at his feet and with the defenders on the back foot.

He was not a player that made runs into channels, he looked like he liked to beat a man by running at him.

However, he rarely got his game and rarely got the space to receive the ball, but then couldn't deal with a defender up his backside or receiving the ball in front of him

He also couldn't do the graft work.

So was it a case of us not playing to his style or him not adapting to ours... We had the same with Ched and Billy Sharp for long enough. I would always suggest that the team put the ball where the striker wants it, thats what makes them so valuable and rare...

However with Cofie, he offered nothing much back and ended up a luxury we couldn't afford...

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

Again agree with Bergen. Running the channels effectively is more than just dropping the ball between full-back and centre-back and charging after it. In the games I saw Cofie played he rarely anticipated this situation and when he did he was clueless with the ball behind the defence. Timing is the key, if the midfielder has the ability (and I think we all know McDonald has) a well-timed run will get found. Part of our problem recently has been giving McDonald the options to do this. Hopefully the trio of Forte, Murphy and Poleon will have the nous to make the runs that utilise McDonald to his full potential, which is way too good for this division.

 

[Patrick Suffaux]

I'm a DW supporter. I like the way he conducts himself and think he's a decent manager to boot. I've always been very fair in my praise and criticism of him without going overboard but no matter how I've felt at any particular time, I haven't lost faith in his ability to take us out of this division. He's doing a decent job despite having his best players sold and seems to be finding the right balance now across his team. I don't think it's any coincidence that we are starting to look a bit more dangerous up top now we have a bit of pace and width. He's finally been able to go out and get those kind of players.

 

[Bergen Blade]

I don't disagree Bergen, but the point I was making was that you didn't include him in the results on here, which doesn't show the correct picture.

I think you want the selection of results to include any fast forwards. I'm not interested in that.

A fuller, not very sexy, description of my selection would be forwards with good enough pace and movement to help stretch the opposition.

Based on what John Cofie showed for us he doesn't meet these criteria.

 

[SwissBlade]

I think you want the selection of results to include any fast forwards. I'm not interested in that.

A fuller, not very sexy, description of my selection would be forwards with good enough pace and movement to help stretch the opposition.

Based on what John Cofie showed for us he doesn't meet these criteria.

But surely you're then becoming too subjective if you're excluding Cofie entirely. V Bournemouth he stretched the opposition using pace then by smashing the ball in the top corner

 

[Bergen Blade]

But surely you're then becoming too subjective if you're excluding Cofie entirely. V Bournemouth he stretched the opposition using pace then by smashing the ball in the top corner

No, the definition is there. You feel he meets the criteria, I don't. I'm fine with that and you should feel free to consider the post pointless/not valid.

It's not scientific research, and I could well have posted 'Forte and Murphy are great, so they should play. Porter and Robson are crap so should not play." But would that have been more interesting? Would it have generated debate?

 

[Pinchy]

I think you want the selection of results to include any fast forwards. I'm not interested in that.

A fuller, not very sexy, description of my selection would be forwards with good enough pace and movement to help stretch the opposition.

Based on what John Cofie showed for us he doesn't meet these criteria.

...and neither does the rather pedestrian lightning bolt that is Chappell. Which of the two will have the more successful career?

 

[Trafford]

To me, it's about getting the right balance. Two out and out centre forwards playing together doesn't work (Kitson and Porter). Two "decent quick lads" without a target man can work but often doesn't. But a target man with pace alongside / either side of him makes it very difficult for the defenders to settle into their game and gives the midfield options - that's something that we've been missing this season and has probably made the midfield look worse than they are (albeit I accept that they haven't played well).

 

[Keef Chedwyn]

I think you want the selection of results to include any fast forwards. I'm not interested in that.

A fuller, not very sexy, description of my selection would be forwards with good enough pace and movement to help stretch the opposition.

Based on what John Cofie showed for us he doesn't meet these criteria.

You have to include Cofie if you're sticking to your 'decent quick lads in the forward line' title. He's quick and decent.

Just because he might make your data look pointless it doesn't mean he shouldn't be included.

 

[Bergen Blade]

You have to include Cofie if you're sticking to your 'decent quick lads in the forward line' title. He's quick and decent.

Just because he might make your data look pointless it doesn't mean he shouldn't be included.

During his stay here, did you think he was decent at stretching the opposition?

 

[Pinchy]

During his stay here, did you think he was decent at stretching the opposition?

You'll be deleting Chappell from your hypothesis, then?

 

[SwissBlade]

During his stay here, did you think he was decent at stretching the opposition?

Do you think that Ched was a bad player? For a long time he had a terrible goal scoring record, same for Billy Sharp. Yet put them in a team that plays to THEIR strengths, you see Ched bang in 35 goals and Billy Sharp have enormous success at Donny.

Cofie, as I said showed that he had a decent touch, excellent pace. But it was very rarely seen. Why? Personally because he was either out on the wing (which didn't suit him) or playing as a striker, but not how he likes to play.

How many games did we see him play in the way that got success? perhaps one or two

 

[alcoblade]

You have to include Cofie if you're sticking to your 'decent quick lads in the forward line' title. He's quick and decent.

Decent? Cofie? He was crap for us on every measure other than speed.

UTB

 

[SwissBlade]

Decent? Cofie? He was crap for us on every measure other than speed.

UTB

The same was said about Ched until he bagged 35 goals...